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Thread: Overrated music artists and bands

  1. #136
    Elite Member SHELLEE's Avatar
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    Well put Chilly, well put!
    See, Whores, we are good for something. Love, Florida
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  2. #137
    Gold Member Baby Face's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post
    ARGGH!





    Fine. They asked for it. MUSICFESTO:

    Music like all art has to be put in perspective. Even if you don't like The Beatles when you hear them on the radio, you can't deny what they have done for contemporary music. The Beatles revolutionized rock by intelletualizing it. They took rock 'n' roll and made it spiritual, psychedlic, poetic and original. They expanded the frontiers of rock and made it accessible for a wide audience. All rock subgenres that came into being in the following decades are based on what The Beatles established in the fucking 1960s. Most pop and rock acts today are in some way or other related to the work of the Beatles.

    Bob Dylan took the basic folk of Woodie Guthrie and Robert Johnson and expanded it towards folk rock. He defined the genre for many decades. One achievement is the sophisticated poetic and literary force of his work that has been compared to Dickens and Shakespeare. Another achievement is the social criticism that was the voice of a generation in the 60s and 70s. He was a visionary and a revolutionary. Today, almost 60 years after his legendary mid-1960's trilogy, a vast majority of folk and indie artists are still strongly influenced by Dylan.

    I don't like the music of Elvis Presley either, but I would never call him overrated. He took the music that black people were playing in secret backrooms and introduced it to a mass audience, jamming away like a motherfucker - always with his own touch. That was revolutionary in the 1950s. He created a culture of rebellion and made black music acceptable. He turned a subculture into mainstream and changed society as a whole in the process.

    I have witnessed similar phenomenoms in my early youth and I know how one revolutionary music act can change you forever. It's true that Nirvana's music is nothing to write home about when you listen to it today. But when Kurt Cobain came onto the scene, there was only cheesy pop music and classic rock in the youth culture. And then, wham, Kurt changed it all. In a materialistic, looks-obsessed society he showed us that it was okay not to fit in, it was okay not to be perfectly styled, it was appropriate to be depressed and hopeless. Grunge soon became it's own parody, but it paved the way for alternative and indie and everything that was not cookie cutter pop and rock trash.

    Take techno and house. In the mid 1980s a DJ in Chicago mixed together the first house song and made it available to the public. Before that disco was the only club music. Is Jesse Saunders the best house DJ of all time? No, but he changed everything. The first techno songs by Derrick May, Juan Atkins, and Kevin Saunderson sounded like Atari sound effects mixed with hip hop basslines. Crappy. But only because of that the English and German DJs were able to develop it into a more industrial and powerful sound. Only because of those seemingly unspectacular songs, we have today's sophisticated minimal, tech house, ambient, etc. A global youth culture evolved from it.

    Bottom line, when an entire generation worships a particular artist, there is usually a good reason. And I make a clear distinction between artist (Dylan, Beatles, Pink Floyd, Tom Waits, Bowie,...) and product (Spears, Gaga, Madonna,...).

    Tommorrow's lesson: Rock appreaciation and rock history (Jack Black).
    I agree wholeheartedly with this. I do have to put in my two cents on Nirvana/Kurt Cobain. What you said about him is correct on a global basis. Nirvana were the first Seattle (grunge) band to make it huge. Because of this they were the face mainstream media put to a movement that was a direct response to the aqua net hair bands of the LA scene. Nirvna were the best known but, probably the least representative of the anti music establishment acts around. Actually they were the little kids band - they played the all ages clubs where the others (Soundgarden, Alice, Mother Love Bone) only played clubs. Nirvana were not the originators of this irreverant scene. You probably have to go back to Mud Honey and before to get closer to the epicenter however, within the Seattle scene the true Jesus was Andy Wood.
    Silence may be golden but, duct tape is cheaper.

  3. #138
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    I know what you mean. Elvis wasn't the originator of rock 'n' roll either, but he made it available to a wide audience. The same is valid for Nrivana, they brought the whole underground scene of Olympia into the world. I know Cobain didn't invent grunge. But he was the one who put the global focus on that scene. An underground movement is worthless historically, if no one benefits from it.

    When Nirvana came onto the scene, I was 12. I didn't go to clubs, I didn't have acces to underground music. Which is why it was so important to me that they were available to everyone through the billboard charts and MTV. In my late teens I was able to spend some time in Olympia and Seattle and to see the scene firsthand, but that didn't do me any good five years earlier when I needed Kurt Cobain in my life without knowing it. So for my personal development, it was good that Nirvana was mainstream. The same is valid for many of my peers.

    If techno had stayed in the tiny clubs of Berlin, many people who were there when the movement first started would be happier. It's a very common discussion in the techno scene that I was a part of. Because, of course, techno changed significantly when it became mainstream. Me, I think, what's the point to experience something great, if you don't want to share it with the world? And it's not like I have to listen to David Guetta, just because the mainstream audience listens to that kind of crap. There are still as many, if not more unknown artist who make excellent underground techno and house.

    It's kind of like John Irving's approach to literature: What good is it to write a literary masterpiece that no one reads? Put some rape and incest into it, make it more accessible and you will enrich a wide audience.
    Last edited by Chilly Willy; June 16th, 2011 at 12:58 PM.
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  4. #139
    Elite Member gas_chick's Avatar
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    Standing O Chilly!
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  5. #140
    Super Moderator Tati's Avatar
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    When Nirvana came onto the scene, I was 12. I didn't go to clubs, I didn't have acces to underground music. Which is why it was so important to me that they were available to everyone through the billboard charts and MTV. In my late teens I was able to spend some time in Olympia and Seattle and to see the scene firsthand, but that didn't do me any good four years earlier when I needed Kurt Cobain in my life without knowing it.
    OMG, this. I almost wish I could get my head back to that place, although it's probably healthier that I don't. That music just seemed so raw and pure and important to me at the time, though.
    If you reveal your secrets to the wind you should not blame the wind for revealing them to the trees.

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  6. #141
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    *applause*
    couldn't have said it better myself, chilly.

    Quote Originally Posted by dexter7 View Post





    ............and, sputnik is a hard ass bitch critic! she doesn't seem to like anyone, and since i admire her fashion capabilities so much, i feel somehow influenced by her dismissal of so many popular bands, like "maybe she knows something i don't? [cuz i don't know how to dress, so maybe i don't know how to listen to music either??]" damn, the peer pressure!


    i am a harsh bitch, i admit it.
    i don't think all the bands i listed here are crap (i usually specified which ones i think are total doody). the rest are just overrated - i.e. not bad but not as good as people think they are, imo.
    and bottom line, it's all subjective and you have to listen to what makes you happy.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  7. #142
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tati View Post
    OMG, this. I almost wish I could get my head back to that place, although it's probably healthier that I don't. That music just seemed so raw and pure and important to me at the time, though.
    I still remember the moment I first heard Nirvana. I was hypnotized, goosebumps. It was the perfect musical expression of my own fuck-you-attitude, so raw, so nihilistic. Before that I listened to Guns 'n' Roses, because their energy always appealed to me, but their rockstar attitude never seemed quite right to me. Kurt was the anti-vanity rockstar, none of that bullshit hubris. Ahhhh.
    Hello mother fucker! when you ask a question read also the answer instead of asking another question on an answer who already contain the answer of your next question!
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  8. #143
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    lol i too went from guns n' roses to nirvana.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  9. #144
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    We all did then, right? You can tell we're the same age, Sput. Anyway, those are the reasons I will forever be loyal to Dave Grohl, btw. No dissing the Foo Fighters.

    After grunge I moved on to punk, ska and alternative. Later indie and folk were added to the mix. Good rock was always present, of course. Underground hip hop and reggae were huge in my circle of friends, too. Stoners, of course.

    Techno, house, and drum & bass have always been there since the early 90s, but more to go clubbing. Ambient to come down, lol. I do listen to electronic and electronica when I hang out at home, though. I love all kinds of electronic crossover approaches, be it electro indie, electro pop, electroclash, etc.

    Um, sorry, DERAIL.
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  10. #145
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Guns n Roses are the band I hate most on earth. (them and BonJovi)

    All through my childhood I listened to debates like this thread. I grew up around people that took music and all the related arcane knowledge very seriously.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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  11. #146
    Gold Member Baby Face's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post
    When Nirvana came onto the scene, I was 12. I didn't go to clubs, I didn't have acces to underground music. Which is why it was so important to me that they were available to everyone through the billboard charts and MTV. In my late teens I was able to spend some time in Olympia and Seattle and to see the scene firsthand, but that didn't do me any good five years earlier when I needed Kurt Cobain in my life without knowing it. So for my personal development, it was good that Nirvana was mainstream. The same is valid for many of my peers.
    I totall get this!!! When Nirvana came out, I was 25ish and had been a fan of the Seattle music scene for 7 years or so at this point. Any Wood had just died and Temple of the Dog/Pearl Jam were being formed. I was a Mother Love Bone fan and thought Andy Wood was god. His death gutted myself and my peers - the scene was preoccupied with his death and getting on with life. Nirvana were known but when they HIT they took everyone by surprise (even themselves, I think). My personal opinion is that one of Kurt's demons was his feeling of not deserving (and not really wanting) his successes. You have to understand, with this group of musicians mainstream success was horrifying even though they said that they all wanted it. Really crazy/fun time in my life.
    Silence may be golden but, duct tape is cheaper.

  12. #147
    Elite Member DeChayz's Avatar
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    Anyone that listed the Beatles and/or Zep are getting their asses beaten with their own shoes!

    Pink Floyd is just awful, I can't even listen to it, have to turn the radio off. I can't imagine even being high makes it sound any better.
    The Doors, though, are just overrated.

    And I fucking love you, Chills!

  13. #148
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    ^^ Back atcha.

    LSD makes Pink Floyd very accessible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Face View Post
    I totall get this!!! When Nirvana came out, I was 25ish and had been a fan of the Seattle music scene for 7 years or so at this point. Any Wood had just died and Temple of the Dog/Pearl Jam were being formed. I was a Mother Love Bone fan and thought Andy Wood was god. His death gutted myself and my peers - the scene was preoccupied with his death and getting on with life. Nirvana were known but when they HIT they took everyone by surprise (even themselves, I think). My personal opinion is that one of Kurt's demons was his feeling of not deserving (and not really wanting) his successes. You have to understand, with this group of musicians mainstream success was horrifying even though they said that they all wanted it. Really crazy/fun time in my life.
    True, Kurt hated the attention. It's like the punk movement, mainstream success is for losers. NOFX and Bad Religion were hated in the scene, because you aren't punk when you are on MTV. It's the same old same going round in circles. To me, it's just pretentious and elitist. Exclusivity doesn't make a band better or worse. Changing the musical output in order to appeal to a wider audience is a different stroy, though. Nirvana always stayed the same, Bad Religion got all cheezy and pop. Bah.

    And as for the artist, well, it's equally pretentious to pretend the success is unwanted. No one forces an artist to switch to a major label, for instance. No one forces them to play big venues.

    In Kurt's case, it wasn't the attention Nirvana got that bugged him, but the focus on him as a person. He couldn't handle it...obviously. Plus, he was troubled and depressed to begin with, it's what made him so authentic and appealing to millions of teenagers.
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  14. #149
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post

    I still think he would have killed himself one way or the other.

    Yes, he was a born suicide.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  15. #150
    Elite Member SHELLEE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeChayz View Post
    Anyone that listed the Beatles and/or Zep are getting their asses beaten with their own shoes!

    Pink Floyd is just awful, I can't even listen to it, have to turn the radio off. I can't imagine even being high makes it sound any better.
    The Doors, though, are just overrated.

    And I fucking love you, Chills!
    Totally agree on Beatles/Zep. Completely disagree on Pink Floyd. They are awsome, especially in concert. Agree on the Doors.
    See, Whores, we are good for something. Love, Florida
    #fingersinthebootyassbitch

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