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Thread: Visitors flood Amsterdam's red light district

  1. #16
    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo View Post
    Why do you have a problem with a man having sex with a woman and then giving her money for the service?? What EXACTLY is your problem with prostitution??
    It's just disgusting. That is my visceral reaction, but of course I understand that it is not a satisfactory answer.

    Ok, then. I have a problem with prostitutes because: It is demeaning to women and encourages men to treat them purely as sex objects, when we both know women have far more to offer than just that. They also facilitate adultery which is wrong unless the wife consents to it, although perhaps that is a secondary issue. Anyone can be a whore. They haven't bothered to develop any real skills.

    I have a problem with men who pay for sex because they are treating women like pieces of meat.

    Do you really think that prostitution is just as respectable as any other profession?

  2. #17
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    Spreading your legs for strangers to avoid getting a job like the rest of us is lazy, imo. And laziness is not respectable. Well, neither is the spreading your legs for strangers part.

    So let me ask, how is this kind of prostitution respectable?

  3. #18
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    If the whore is disease-free and the relationship is solely about sex (with absolutely ZERO % chance of romantic feelings that would threaten the marraige), then there isn't any need for a woman to get her panties in a bunch if her husband fucks a government-regulated Amsterdam prostitute. I mean... in theory.
    I guess that theory would hold up if your only objection to being cheated on was the risk of STDs. Personally, I object to infidelity with a paid whore, a free whore, or another man. I don't really care if someone wants to rent out their snatch, but please don't try to sell me the idea that it's okay if my man fucks someone else because the government says she doesn't have herpes. And I'm not okay with infidelity regardless if it's just for purely physical reasons. Really, how many men would you expect to turn a blind eye to their wife cheating as long as it was only sex with no feelings involved? Not many. Maybe in Europe they would, but not here.

  4. #19
    Gold Member greeneyedbeauty's Avatar
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    I'd rather her be a whore than a lazy ass that sets home, spitting out kids, having no job and relying on the government to support her.

  5. #20
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenna View Post
    It's just disgusting. That is my visceral reaction, but of course I understand that it is not a satisfactory answer.

    Ok, then. I have a problem with prostitutes because: It is demeaning to women and encourages men to treat them purely as sex objects, when we both know women have far more to offer than just that.
    No, prostitution encourages men to treat PROSTITUTES as sex objects. Because prostitutes are sex objects. Period.

    What encourages men to treat regular women as sex objects are the women said men know on a personal level: girlfriends, mothers, sisters, wives. If these women are the type that believe being beautiful and sexually attractive are the only way to attract and keep a man, they are the ones to blame. Men learn how to treat women from the women they know, not from prostitutes.

    But if you reeeeally, really wanna get right down to it, it's the likes of Britney Spears and Pamela Anderson and such that encourage men to treat women like sex objects. WOMEN are to blame for how men treat them. For example, I demand respect because I am worthy of it. And I get it. Every damn day. The men that don't respect me or try to treat me like meat are summarily schooled on the spot. *hair toss*

    They also facilitate adultery which is wrong unless the wife consents to it, although perhaps that is a secondary issue.
    You think men only cheat on their wives with prostitutes?? LMFAO!! What facilitates adultery is a man's and his mistress' lack of a moral center. DON'T BLAME THE FUCKING PROSTITUTES, GODDAMMIT!!!! It's the MAN that's to blame, not the prostitute or the wife or the mother or whothefuckever.

    Anyone can be a whore.
    No, not just anyone. Can you? Not me. But that's just cuz the idea of sex with a strange man to whom I'm not attracted skeeves me out. I don't care if somebody else is capable of it, I won't judge them (cuz I don't know her history). I just know I couldn't do it.

    They haven't bothered to develop any real skills.
    Oh, shut up. Sucking cock IS a skill. Ever heard of Kegel exercises? Being a good lay takes skill. Developing a clientèle (ie., repeat customers) takes skill, no matter what business you're in.

    What about customer service and so-called "people" skills, eh?

    And how the fuck do you know any and every prostitute (legitimate or not) have NOT developed "any real skills"??? Life's a bitch and sometimes it knocks you on your ass. Even college graduates, those with "real skills" end up as sex workers.

    I swear, it's this judgmental, naive attitude you have that perpetuates the stigma legal Amsterdam prostitutes (for example) are stuck with.

    I have a problem with men who pay for sex because they are treating women like pieces of meat.
    Vaginas are pieces of meat. The purpose of paying for sex is to have your piece of meat rub against somebody eles's piece of meat until sexual climax is reached. Duh.

    Do you really think that prostitution is just as respectable as any other profession?
    Since I don't believe any human being is any "better" than any other, I don't believe any one job is any more respectable than another. We all need to pull our weight here on Planet Earth. We create trash, there's someone to clean up. We get sick, there's someone to make us better. We get horny, there's someone to fuck us. What's the big deal?? Sometimes, people need sexual release, but they're not in a relationship. Sometimes, people need kinky sexual release, but their partner isn't freaky. Thank God for prostitution! And thank God for janitors and nurses and doctors, too!

    The only reason you think prostitution is a disreputable profession is because you've grown up in a society that's criminalized it. You're indoctrinated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    Spreading your legs for strangers to avoid getting a job like the rest of us is lazy, imo. And laziness is not respectable. Well, neither is the spreading your legs for strangers part.

    So let me ask, how is this kind of prostitution respectable?
    Aha! Now that makes sense. Laziness should be pooed upon. But how do you, Beeyotch, define lazy? Is it the amount of time spent on the job? Is it the amount of physical effort exerted while doing the job?? Calling prostitutes "lazy," regardless, is an empty statement. Clearly, you know nothing about what it means to be a prostitute. A lazy ho won't make any money, and that would defeat the purpose of being a ho, now wouldn't it?

    Your overall declaration that prostitution is disreputable is nothing but a stereotype. Do you think models and actors and voiceover artists are as lowly as prostitutes?? They put in a little amount of time and effort (ok, that's debatable, but whatever) for a large amount of cash. Should we be vilified as well? What about lawyers who make $300 dollars an hour??

  6. #21
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    If the whore is disease-free and the relationship is solely about sex (with absolutely ZERO % chance of romantic feelings that would threaten the marraige), then there isn't any need for a woman to get her panties in a bunch if her husband fucks a government-regulated Amsterdam prostitute. I mean... in theory.
    I guess that theory would hold up if your only objection to being cheated on was the risk of STDs. Personally, I object to infidelity with a paid whore, a free whore, or another man. I don't really care if someone wants to rent out their snatch, but please don't try to sell me the idea that it's okay if my man fucks someone else because the government says she doesn't have herpes. And I'm not okay with infidelity regardless if it's just for purely physical reasons. Really, how many men would you expect to turn a blind eye to their wife cheating as long as it was only sex with no feelings involved? Not many. Maybe in Europe they would, but not here.
    You missed my point. A husband fucking a disease-free whore that wants nothing from him but money is not a threat to a marriage, IMO.

    For theoretical example: I wouldn't consider leaving my husband if he fucked a disease-free Amsterdam (or Las Vegas) whore. That whore's not a threat to my marriage. What MIGHT be a threat to my marriage is the reason my husband felt he needed/wanted to fuck the whore. THAT is what I would seek to address, not the fucking of the whore.

    And as far as your last statement, not everyone IN THIS COUNTRY believes in or desires monogamy. There are many, MANY couples out there who have open marriages. You should do your research before making blanket generalizations.

  7. #22
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    You missed my point. A husband fucking a disease-free whore that wants nothing from him but money is not a threat to a marriage, IMO.

    For theoretical example: I wouldn't consider leaving my husband if he fucked a disease-free Amsterdam (or Las Vegas) whore. That whore's not a threat to my marriage. What MIGHT be a threat to my marriage is the reason my husband felt he needed/wanted to fuck the whore. THAT is what I would seek to address, not the fucking of the whore.

    And as far as your last statement, not everyone IN THIS COUNTRY believes in or desires monogamy. There are many, MANY couples out there who have open marriages. You should do your research before making blanket generalizations.
    Well, then, you missed my point,too. Since you're telling me not to make blanket generalizations, take your own advice: now you're qualifying your statement about how cheating just for sex, stating that it isn't a threat to a marriage in your opinion. Thanks for clarifying that, because in a lot of other peoples' opinions it would be a threat to a marriage because it violates trust and a marital contract. I am fully aware that not everyone is monogamous or wants to be. Fine for them. But most people expect fidelity from their spouses however naive that seems to some people. As far as wondering why he sought sex someplace else, any of us on any given day could come up with several reasons we might would like to fuck somebody else, no matter how good our significant other is giving it to us. Variety just for one. There are going to be some people who want multiple partners no matter how good the sex at home is. Some people feel entitled to cheat because they make a lot of money or just because they are men. And many women allow it even though it tears them up inside. What you are speaking of in open relationships where both partners agree to have sex with others is very different from the expectations of most people, and certainly of most men. You know as well as I that many of them who would fuck a hooker or the secretary and feel just fine about it would murder their wives for thinking about doing the same thing.

    That said, I don't think hookers make people cheat. They either will or they won't, and most who do will do it with someone they already know.

  8. #23
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that, because in a lot of other peoples' opinions it would be a threat to a marriage because it violates trust and a marital contract.
    I still insist that you missed my initial point. In theory, a man fucking a whore is not a threat to a marriage because the whore only wants his money. She doesn't want the man, and he doesn't want her. Now, did I say anything about whether or not the wife knows he fucked the whore? No, I did not.

    Since you brought up INFIDELITY (which is NOT what I was talking about initially), it doesn't matter if the cheater fucked a prostitute or a regular person. Because, as you stated, THAT isn't the issue. The issue is TRUST.


    See, crumpet, you want to have a discussion about infidelity. I don't. I want to have a discussion about PROSTITUTION. And my statement still stands: PROSTITUTION IS NOT A THREAT TO MARRIAGE. Meaning: if someone pays a prostitute for sex, the marriage will not automatically be ruined as a rule. What is a threat to marriage? Distrust, dishonesty, dissatisfaction, selfishness, abuse...

    I still say, prostitution is not a threat to marriage. If so, then there'd be no such thing as either prostitution or marriage. The two could not have co-existed on Planet Earth since The Dawn of Civilization if Prostitution was a threat to the institution of Marriage.

  9. #24
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo View Post
    But how do you, Beeyotch, define lazy? Is it the amount of time spent on the job? Is it the amount of physical effort exerted while doing the job?? Calling prostitutes "lazy," regardless, is an empty statement. Clearly, you know nothing about what it means to be a prostitute. A lazy ho won't make any money, and that would defeat the purpose of being a ho, now wouldn't it?
    Easy, if you choose to spread your legs for money, rather than getting your ass up every day to a job that requires actual skills, then you're lazy. And a ho.

    Your overall declaration that prostitution is disreputable is nothing but a stereotype. Do you think models and actors and voiceover artists are as lowly as prostitutes?? They put in a little amount of time and effort (ok, that's debatable, but whatever) for a large amount of cash. Should we be vilified as well? What about lawyers who make $300 dollars an hour??
    That's just it, you can't compare any other profession to prostitution because it's very clearly defined as the exchange of sex for money/valuables. You even compared prostitution to healing or caring for the sick. Last time I checked, nobody died because they didn't get fucked.

    And you're right, I know nothing about being a prostitute, that doesn't mean I can't find the act in general repulsive. Sex is private to me, and not something I can just give to any john who happens to be able to meet my asking price. If other women feel differently, then fine for them, but I doubt there really are as many proud, hard-working, self-empowered prostitutes out there as you think.

  10. #25
    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo View Post
    No, prostitution encourages men to treat PROSTITUTES as sex objects. Because prostitutes are sex objects. Period.
    Yes, and I can't respect that.

    What encourages men to treat regular women as sex objects are the women said men know on a personal level: ...
    I can't really argue with that. But I am speaking of the individual prostitutes. They let men treat them as sex objects, because that is what they've made themselves into, and I can't respect that.

    But if you reeeeally, really wanna get right down to it, it's the likes of Britney Spears and Pamela Anderson and such that encourage men to treat women like sex objects.
    Yes, and I don't respect them either.

    You think men only cheat on their wives with prostitutes??
    I never said that. Again, I am talking about the individual cases. A prostitute who has sex with a married man is facilitating him cheating on his wife. Same with a mistress or a one night stand who doesn't get paid for it. Women who have sex with men who are married to other women aren't respectable. Period. And of course I blame the man most of all, because he's the one who made the commitment. But that doesn't excuse the "other woman", whether she was paid for it or whether she did it for free.

    No, not just anyone.
    Technically anyone with the requisite body parts can be a whore. It's not an achievement to be able to overcome your distaste of doing something skeevy.

    Being a good lay only takes practise, and all prostitutes get plenty of that.

    Life's a bitch and sometimes it knocks you on your ass. Even college graduates, those with "real skills" end up as sex workers.
    Yes, and my attitute towards people who turn to prostitution as a last resort is one of pity more than anything else.

    Since I don't believe any human being is any "better" than any other, I don't believe any one job is any more respectable than another.
    That is sweet of you. Honestly.

  11. #26
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    Easy, if you choose to spread your legs for money, rather than getting your ass up every day to a job that requires actual skills, then you're lazy. And a ho.
    You're delusional. Whores get up out of bed, put on clothes, and they go to their place of business. Just like you, just like me. So stop being a judgmental so-and-so, just cuz the job a whore does isn't something you would either do or respect.

    I'm still waiting for your definition of lazy, Beeyotch. Here's what Merriam-Webster has to say about it:

    Main Entry: 1la·zy
    Pronunciation: 'lA-zE
    Function: adjective
    Inflected Form(s): la·zi·er; -est
    Etymology: perhaps from Middle Low German lasich feeble; akin to Middle High German erleswen to become weak
    1 a : disinclined to activity or exertion : not energetic or vigorous b : encouraging inactivity or indolence <a lazy summer day>
    2 : moving slowly : SLUGGISH
    3 : DROOPY, LAX <a rabbit with lazy ears>
    4 : placed on its side <lazy E livestock brand>
    5 : not rigorous or strict <lazy scholarship>
    - la·zi·ly /-z&-lE/ adverb
    - la·zi·ness /-zE-n&s/ noun
    - la·zy·ish /-zE-ish/ adjective
    synonyms LAZY, INDOLENT, SLOTHFUL mean not easily aroused to activity. LAZY suggests a disinclination to work or to take trouble <take-out foods for lazy cooks>. INDOLENT suggests a love of ease and a dislike of movement or activity <the heat made us indolent>. SLOTHFUL implies a temperamental inability to act promptly or speedily when action or speed is called for <fired for being slothful about filling orders>.

    That's just it, you can't compare any other profession to prostitution because it's very clearly defined as the exchange of sex for money/valuables. You even compared prostitution to healing or caring for the sick. Last time I checked, nobody died because they didn't get fucked.
    I don't understand this sentence. No matter, because I made no comparisons. You missed the point: Prostitutes serve a purpose, just like doctors and janitors. Again, I don't deem any profession (or any human being) "better" than another. What does "better" mean?? "I'm better than you!" "No, I'm better than you!" What does "better" mean?? This is why the only comparison I make is this: Prostitutes serve a purpose, just like doctors and janitors.

    And you're right, I know nothing about being a prostitute, that doesn't mean I can't find the act in general repulsive. Sex is private to me, and not something I can just give to any john who happens to be able to meet my asking price. If other women feel differently, then fine for them, but I doubt there really are as many proud, hard-working, self-empowered prostitutes out there as you think.
    Just because you doubt it doesn't make it untrue. They're out there.

    And just because YOU find the act in general repulsive doesn't make it right for you to judge prostitutes and think you're better and a more worthy human being than they are. That kind of thinking is EXACTLY why so many rapes go unreported and so many murders go unsolved. Nobody cares about whores. And since nobody cares about whores, nobody cares to figure out the underlying social issues that lead to so many women ending up selling their bodies for cash. I find this quite depressing.

  12. #27
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    And since nobody cares about whores, nobody cares to figure out the underlying social issues that lead to so many women ending up selling their bodies for cash. I find this quite depressing.
    What I find depressing is that I could probably make a lot more on my back (or knees) that I do with my Masters degree. But I digress.

    In my opinion, it's your pussy, do what you want with it. Sell it, rent it out, lease it, or just give it away. If I'm going to argue that people have autonomy over their bodies, why would I stop at prostitution?

    Regarding women being sex objects, I will have to assert that i believe that mens' treatment of some women as sex objects be they strippers, hookers, porno actresses, or bar sluts, does have a trickle down effect on the rest of us in the female population. And I really don't think a good girl vs. bad girl, virgins vs. sluts, Madonna vs. whore polarity is helpful in expanding the identities of women as a group.

  13. #28
    Gold Member greeneyedbeauty's Avatar
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    ^ Damn, Wicked, you really take this stuff personally. lol

  14. #29
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    What about manwhores?
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #30
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenna View Post
    I am speaking of the individual prostitutes. They let men treat them as sex objects, because that is what they've made themselves into, and I can't respect that.
    Ok then. To each his own!

    A prostitute who has sex with a married man is facilitating him cheating on his wife. Same with a mistress or a one night stand who doesn't get paid for it. Women who have sex with men who are married to other women aren't respectable. Period.
    At first, I agree. But I must ask myself: Who was the woman? What was the situation? My initial response is to think poorly of the woman (and the man), but I've never been one to have an initial emotional reaction to something and let that color how I feel about a situation for all eternity. *shrug*

    And of course I blame the man most of all, because he's the one who made the commitment. But that doesn't excuse the "other woman", whether she was paid for it or whether she did it for free.
    Wait, what are we blaming the man and the prostitute for??

    Technically anyone with the requisite body parts can be a whore. It's not an achievement to be able to overcome your distaste of doing something skeevy.
    Uh, yes it is. It's a HUGE achievement. Just like it's a huge achievement to squash a spider all by yourself if you're arachnophobic.

    Being a good lay only takes practise, and all prostitutes get plenty of that.


    my attitute towards people who turn to prostitution as a last resort is one of pity more than anything else.
    Me too. Because the reality is, they ain't workin' in Amsterdam or Vegas, where at least some effort is made to look out for the workers' welfare.

    ETA: Beeyotch and crumpet and Ravenna, I'm just having a spirited debate with you. I hope you don't take any of this personally! Becaus, as always, it is my job to play Devil's Advocate. I think it's important to disassociate from our indoctrinations and look at social issues from an emotional distance.

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