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Thread: Sam Smith on his gender fluidity: ‘I feel just as much woman as I am man’

  1. #91
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    Well he’s only sold 20 million (crappy) records worldwide so yeah totally toiling in obscurity.
    I don't think it's entirely about selling records though. The need for attention, to be talked about, is a fickle and demanding mistress and his music is bland/generic enough that he'll be easily replaced by the next Big Thing selling the same guff in a shiny new package.
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  2. #92
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Oh I don’t doubt it but I also don’t think he made up he’s non-binary for attention
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  3. #93
    Elite Member rollo's Avatar
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    I don't think he's made it up but attention? Yes please!

    P.S. Have you seen his dancing? It makes Drake's look good!
    I have some famous friends and I have mostly not famous friends.

  4. #94
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    I don't think that he's made it up either, but I think he's worked to maximise the coverage it has garnered. I'll be interested to see what he decides to reveal in a blaze next.
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  5. #95
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    I mean yeah he’s a pop star, not Kurt cobain. They’re (had to correct myself) a cheesy mainstream ballad singer. Selling out is the point.
    Last edited by sputnik; September 20th, 2019 at 02:51 PM.
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  6. #96
    Elite Member sprynkles's Avatar
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    I just listened to snippets of a bunch of Sam's videos on YT. Naw. Not my cuppa. Sam's not easy to look at either.

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    Elite Member Rusalka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenna View Post
    Yes, language evolves, but it is usually something that happens naturally over time, not something that is prescribed by a tiny minority of people. This is not new words being added and others falling out of fashion. It's expecting everyone to alter deeply ingrained patterns of speech in order to validate your feelings. I think it's a bit much.
    Yeah, it's like when those pesky women wanted to stop being referred to as Mrs. John Doe, or when black people wanted people to stop using the n-word, or when gays wanted the definition of marriage to be changed to include non-hetero relationship, or etc etc etc.

    It's not a big deal to refer to people as they wish to be referred to. Trust, it's much harder for someone to live as non-binary than it is for people who are not non-binary to adjust to using a new pronoun. Sorry, but just because an (oppressed) minority is "tiny" doesn't mean their voices don't count. If this were a conversation about black people, or jews, or gays, how would any of these arguments sound? If they sound unpalatable, maybe that merits reflection.

    The fact that some people think gender fluidity is nonsense or silly or just a cry for attention (hey, maybe we can have pray the fluidity away camps!) is exactly why someone like Sam Smith coming out is important.

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    Frankly, I wish we were so evolved that no one gave a hoot how anyone identified, or what race they are or religion they practice... or if they were rich or poor or somewhere in the middle. Whatever you are you are, and we could all just be a little kinder to each other and mind our fucking business when it's nothing that impacts your own life. The struggles that people go through just to be themselves and be treated with fairness is ridiculous.

    I don't understand all the different gender and sexuality labels. It seems they keep growing. But to each his/her/their own. If it helps someone understand themselves and feel good, I think that's great.
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  9. #99
    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusalka View Post
    Yeah, it's like when those pesky women wanted to stop being referred to as Mrs. John Doe, or when black people wanted people to stop using the n-word, or when gays wanted the definition of marriage to be changed to include non-hetero relationship, or etc etc etc.
    If you say so. These comparisons don't really work for me because I am not, in referring to Sam as 'he' or 'him', trying to erase his identity as an individual person or to imply he has a lower status than anyone else, like Mrs Husband's Name does, I am not using a vile pejorative against him, like the n word(!), nor am I trying to keep him from rights enjoyed by everyone else, like those who oppose gay marriage. I am simply applying principals of grammar to which I been habituated my entire life. If Sam were my friend, I would probably make the effort to use his preferred pronouns no matter how much it grates on me or confuses people. I don't feel obligated to sacrifice grammar and clarity to please Sam the celebrity I've never met.
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  10. #100
    Elite Member rollo's Avatar
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    This thread has taken a bizarre turn. Even the interviewer uses the masculine pronoun throughout. Don't turn this pop star into a martyr!
    I have some famous friends and I have mostly not famous friends.

  11. #101
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollo View Post
    This thread has taken a bizarre turn. Even the interviewer uses the masculine pronoun throughout. Don't turn this pop star into a martyr!
    Do you mean the daily wire piece that was posted in this thread (link to the post here: Sam Smith on his gender fluidity: ‘I feel just as much woman as I am man’)? Thats not an interview. They’re quoting from Smith’s Instagram and the interview by jameela jamil back in March, and the pronouns used are the choice of the daily wire writer, and you’re right, they’re using he. the daily wire would never use the singular they because they’re a conservative website and they have “issues” with trans and gender non-confirming people in general, to put it mildly. They’re also climate change deniers and trump supporters and snopes seems them unreliable. I just browsed their gender pronouns tag and these are the headlines that came up:

    “Triggering On A New Level: Video Of Democratic Socialists Of America Convention Goes Viral”
    “The Left's Gender Identity Movement Is Erasing Women”
    “KNOWLES: Why The Left's Arguments About Gender Make No Sense”
    “KNOWLES: Here's How Trump Can Crack The Left's Gender Ideology”
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  12. #102
    Elite Member pinkbunnyslippers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    Well no because it is for things or animals we have no relation with, not people. it is like “das”/“es” in German, you wouldn’t ever use it for people.
    Here in Germany, they do. Das Kind. Also, on job postings when a company is looking for an employee, it says m/w/d.
    Männliche/Weibliche/Das.
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  13. #103
    Elite Member pinkbunnyslippers's Avatar
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    I won’t let me edit. I asked my husband, and he said the “d” also may be for “dual”.
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  14. #104
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    You’re right I’d forgotten about das Kind. Do you use the “es” pronoun to refer to people too? My German is super rusty at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if German already came with a solution for gender neutral\inclusive language. So efficient
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  15. #105
    Elite Member pinkbunnyslippers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    You’re right I’d forgotten about das Kind. Do you use the “es” pronoun to refer to people too? My German is super rusty at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if German already came with a solution for gender neutral\inclusive language. So efficient
    No, but er/sie/es (he/she/it) conjugate the same.
    For example: ich weiß (I know)
    du weißt (you know)
    er/sie/es weiß (he/she/it knows)
    wir wissen (we know)
    ihr wisst (they know)
    Sie wissen (you know ((use for respect, unknown person)), and plural)

    I‘m still learning. It’s so deep, and so many rules.
    twitchy2.0 and sputnik like this.
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