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Thread: Is Robert De Niro an anti-vaxxer?

  1. #46
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Michael Moore makes documentaries and though I mostly agree with what he says, I recognise that he's not exactly fair and balanced. There are also a lot of thinly veiled xenophobic documentaries about the islamisation of Europe (the so-called demographic winter). Documentaries are under no obligation not to have an agenda, nor do they have to present only credible facts. It's up to the viewer to make up his or her mind. Documentary only refers to the style of film, it's not a judgement about the credibility or veracity of its claims.
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    Silver Member sparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    Michael Moore makes documentaries and though I mostly agree with what he says, I recognise that he's not exactly fair and balanced. There are also a lot of thinly veiled xenophobic documentaries about the islamisation of Europe (the so-called demographic winter). Documentaries are under no obligation not to have an agenda, nor do they have to present only credible facts. It's up to the viewer to make up his or her mind. Documentary only refers to the style of film, it's not a judgement about the credibility or veracity of its claims.
    Fair points, Sputnik. Perhaps then, at the beginning of every documentary there should be a general warning reminding every viewer of exactly this point. Because I guarantee you a large percentage of the viewing population does not understand this at all.

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    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
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    Warning labels for documentaries? Who's going to put it there? Not the film maker. Warning: my film may be full of shit. The government? We should let them tell us what is real or ridiculous (see also: Donald Trump)?.

    You can't be serious.

    We already have warning labels telling the idiocracy that coffee is hot. I say let Darwinism win. No more warning the stupid people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    Michael Moore makes documentaries and though I mostly agree with what he says, I recognise that he's not exactly fair and balanced. There are also a lot of thinly veiled xenophobic documentaries about the islamisation of Europe (the so-called demographic winter). Documentaries are under no obligation not to have an agenda, nor do they have to present only credible facts. It's up to the viewer to make up his or her mind. Documentary only refers to the style of film, it's not a judgement about the credibility or veracity of its claims.
    That's exactly the point I was trying to make a few pages back, but I think you did it much more eloquently.
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  5. #50
    Silver Member sparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornFlakegrl View Post
    Warning labels for documentaries? Who's going to put it there? Not the film maker. Warning: my film may be full of shit. The government? We should let them tell us what is real or ridiculous (see also: Donald Trump)?.

    You can't be serious.

    We already have warning labels telling the idiocracy that coffee is hot. I say let Darwinism win. No more warning the stupid people.
    Of course you're right. However, it doesn't appear that Darwinism is very effective considering more and more frequently the inmates appear to be running the asylum.
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  6. #51
    Elite Member *Kat*'s Avatar
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    I believe censorship is wrong, but I don't think censorship is the issue in this case. I don't see this documentary being silenced in any way, it will exist. It's not like if it doesn't premiere in this festival, it won't see the light of day. It will probably be shown elsewhere. The government isn't trying to shut it down. It will probably become an underground cult favorite for anti-vaxxers. Yes, they'll probably think big pharma was so scared about the truth coming out that they tried to silence it. Anti-vaxxers will rally around it and the rest of us will roll our eyes.

    Did Tribeca cave in to protect it's public image? Sure. But why shouldn't it? It's under no obligation to be fair or balanced. A private organization changed it's mind about screening a movie. That's it. No one is being prevented from choosing to screen the film. No one is being prevented from choosing to view it. No one has been forced to alter the film. This film has not been censored. You can't cry censorship just because somebody didn't give you a platform to air your opinions. Put it on youtube, it'll probably hit a million views in a few days because all the (bad) publicity it's generating.

    If De Niro wanted to "start a conversation" about autism, he chose a very stupid movie indeed. It's equivalent to choosing a documentary made by the flat earth society to start a conversation about astronomy.

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    Elite Member SHELLEE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkles View Post
    Fair points, Sputnik. Perhaps then, at the beginning of every documentary there should be a general warning reminding every viewer of exactly this point. Because I guarantee you a large percentage of the viewing population does not understand this at all.
    Like the beginning of Reefer Madness, that warning about the perils of marijuana. Cracks me up every time.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    Michael Moore makes documentaries and though I mostly agree with what he says, I recognise that he's not exactly fair and balanced. There are also a lot of thinly veiled xenophobic documentaries about the islamisation of Europe (the so-called demographic winter). Documentaries are under no obligation not to have an agenda, nor do they have to present only credible facts. It's up to the viewer to make up his or her mind. Documentary only refers to the style of film, it's not a judgement about the credibility or veracity of its claims.
    The concern I have is that there will be no credible facts and that what this will lead to is an even higher body count than we already have. People are really galvanized on both sides by this issue and I am not surprised at all by the reactions. I realize this is a painfully personal issue to Deniro, but it looks like he had no idea how much good will he was squandering by originally agreeing to give it a platform.
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  9. #54
    Elite Member NickiDrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^^
    lol so basically they're basing their arguments on "my dog ate my homework"?


    ding ding ding!
    Thats what people like NoNoLogic, sorry, I mean rehab, don't get. They're all for this just because they don't agree with the movie, but what about when it's a pro choice documentary? Those same arguments will come back and bite you in the ass.
    I actually agree with NoNoRehab. This isn't censorship to me either (and I am a big critic of censorship). This is a private movie festival that picks and chooses the movies that they will showcase. There are a ton of submissions to the festival and some get selected, others don't. The decision not to air the documentary during this festival doesn't mean that the film will be destroyed or that no one will see it. It just means it won't be shown at this particular festival. And if they decided not the show the abortion documentary, that's their decision (and I am strongly pro choice). If they decided not to show the virgin documentary that's their choice and doesn't mean that they are anti-Christian. You don't have the "right" to have your film showcased at a private film festival. Now if the festival wanted to show the movie but the government intervened and said they couldn't, that's one thing. But a decision by a private company about what films to show at a festival does not rise to that level. JMO.
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    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    I agree this does not fall under censorship. My argument with nonorehab is that she stated there are not two sides to every story.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post
    Can we please do away with the idea that every stupid idea has to be aired for the sake of "fairness" and to show "there's two sides to every story?" There's not.
    Her mindset is wrong, and is very dangerous. There are assholes who argue that being gay is a choice and say there are not two sides of that argument. There is scientific research that shows certain groups have a higher rate of being gay, and these groups fall under people who suffered trauma in childhood. Some people say that is proof that it is a choice based on their trauma, and that it is not a natural course. They believe therapy can change the outcome. I do not. I agree with the studies that certain groups have a higher rate of being gay, or addicted, or any classification, because they were traumatized. I agree to look at both sides, but do not agree their argument that this research covers all humans. There are always two sides and no matter how off base one side may be, it deserves to be heard.

    As for vaccines, I don't know if they cause autism or not. I support changing the time table of when they are administered, but do not support not vaccinating. I find it interesting that our government had some chemicals removed from most vaccines. I find it suspicious that people have sued pharmas and won settlements. I believe the leading medical researchers who say vaccines probably don't cause autism, but even they do not say they are 100% sure.
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    ^^Thiomersal was removed from vaccines in the 1990s, because fear of a connection between mercury in thiomersal and autism caused many to not have their kids vaccinated. Several studies have not shown a connection between mercury and autism, and the number of autism cases has not dropped since thiomersal/mercury was removed from vaccines. Interestingly enough, the MMR vaccine never contained thiomersal/mercury, only the flu and whooping cough vaccines did. (Flu vaccines might still, I'm not sure). A negative side effect to removing thiomersal/mercury, which acted as a preservative, is that vaccines are now more expensive and less accessible in 3rd world countries. Oh, well.

    Two other chemicals that anti-vaxxers often worry about are formaldehyde and aluminium-hydroxyde. Formaldehyde, while carcinogenic in large amounts, is also produced naturally by the body. You'll have produced more formaldehyde naturally in the time it took to read this post, that you get in a vaccine. Aluminium-hydroxyde is added to irritate the immune system and strengthen the immune response to the vaccine. It's what causes bumbs or a slight inflammation, when vaccinated. That's intentional. Again, neither formaldehyde nor alu-hydroxyde are or were in MMR vaccines.

    My own personal theory, having recently graduated from Google U, is that autism is caused by a combination of genetics, parental age, and phthalates, which are in everything (though not vaccines) and cause a multitude of enviromental and health problems. I hope the EU can agree on phasing out phthalates, and hopefully watch the number of autism cases drop. Sunflower oil can apparantly replace phthalates as a platics softener, but is more expensive, so we need legislation on this.
    Now, won't someone do a documentary on phthalates and show it at Tribeca. That would open up a conversation, and not just rehash old wars between vaxxers and anti-vaxxers.
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  12. #57
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Write the script, pull together the research, and get it made.
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    Yeah, I wasn't really counting on having to do actual work myself.
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    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    I agree this does not fall under censorship. My argument with nonorehab is that she stated there are not two sides to every story.
    But what about the Rolling Stone, Ph.D?
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    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    I am waitlisted for the Rolling Stone, J.D. program.
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