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Thread: An Open Letter From Dylan Farrow

  1. #91
    Elite Member Kathie_Moffett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *DIVA! View Post
    I never cares for WA... But even something seems amiss with me!! Any mother in her right mind would have been beating down the doors to get her kid some help
    True. But Mia's not in her right mind. She's a frightened codependent, probably because she was molested herself. (So no big surprise she fell under the control of another one.)

    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Sick. What kind of mother does that? In the original vanity fair piece by orth from 1992 there was this, which struck me as insane:

    One summer day in Connecticut, when Dylan was four and Woody was applying suntan lotion to her nude body, he alarmed Mia’s mother, actress Maureen O’Sullivan, and sister Tisa Farrow when he began rubbing his finger in the crack between her buttocks. Mia grabbed the lotion out of his hand, and O’Sullivan asked, “How do you want to be remembered by your children?” “As a good father,” Woody answered. “Well, that’s interesting,” O’Sullivan replied. “It only lasted a few seconds, but it was definitely weird,” says Tisa Farrow.

    So the Farrow's saw him put his fingers on her like that and their response was to grab the lotion and make conversation? Bizarre. But they have at least one other (convicted) molester in the family, so maybe they're used to looking away from abuse.
    I'd forgotten that story.... But yes, exactly. Looks like Mia was well-trained and conditioned herself. No wonder she's fucked up and didn't cope well with realizing what sort of thing she'd created a family with. It is horrible that craziness and dysfunctionality from her own abuse made her behavior more questionable, and left her more open to attacks from those defending Woody.

    I read that Beast article. What the fuck, it's a kiss-ass piece by a jackass who worked with Allen...whatever.

    Which reminds me, in observing those out there who support Allen, we should bear in mind that we know pedophiles network and support one another. We've seen this to be true, thanks Operation Yew Tree for show-and-telling it a zillion times over by now.

    Here's Allen and Soon-Yi in NYC with convicted molester/sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. These 21st century paparazzi and the darned internet are so inconvenient:



    I AM NOT!! saying anybody should be convicted without a trial, but it would be irresponsible to ignore the sordid realities involved with these sorts of situations. Personally, I feel free to observe that Allen looks...walks...quacks....yeah, he's a duck. (Sorry, GR-reading ducks out there.)

    It sucks that brilliance and such sickness and cruelty can co-exist in one human being, but hasn't Roman Polanski beaten that dead horse enough for us? (I still love "The Tenant"...) Hell, even the "Lost Prophets" weren't that lousy of a band. Wait, yes they were.

    Anyway, that author's factual points about Soon-Yi's age and all blah blah blah are well-taken, but also not really germane to the questions about Dylan's molestation or Allen's true proclivities. The article doesn't prove one damn thing either way, it's an OPINION piece and a few smuglets on the internet are acting like it's evidential.

    Gotta say though...he unintentionally supports viewing the whole relationship with Mia as a convenient prey, er, child-generating facade by mentioning things like:

    In fact, Woody never once stayed over night at Mia’s apartment in 12 years.
    Of course he didn't.
    Did you know that every time a parent gives in to their kid's whines and buys them candy at the checkout lane, a kitten gets diabetes?-Dlisted
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  2. #92
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Hang on a second there. What proof or even suggestion has there ever been that Mia was abused?



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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat Scorp View Post
    Head of the investigation? Because I assume Dr Levanthal is the doctor Dylan referred to in the open letter - the doctor working on Allen's legal team to gaslight her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kat Scorp View Post

    I feel like I need to defend myself against suggestion that I implied defendants in molestation cases can hire the investigators involved in the criminal case. Because I bloody well didn't. Dylan spoke of experts and doctors trying to "gaslight" her, so I suggested Levanthal was one of those so-called experts. Because to the best of my knowledge, in a custody battle, a parent can hire "experts" to tell family courts that "the other parent" either abused - or brainwashed - the kid. Maybe I'm very wrong about the legalities of custody fights, but I certainly knew that in a criminal case, the defendant can't hire the state investigators, and I did not suggest otherwise.

    Regarding Woody Allen's representative (Leslie Dart) response, I reiterate that Dylan spoke of doctors and experts trying to gaslight her. Dylan makes clear Mia gave her an "out"; based on other posts Mia comes off as willing to suppress the story, not as coaching Dylan... yet Leslie Dart insists "experts" decided Mia was was behind Dylan's voice. So I assume these are the same experts Dylan referred to as attacking her "credibility" and trying to gaslight her.

    Well, your original post did refer to 'the doctor working on Allen's legal team' so you can see how that would be construed as a doctor hired by Allen, when in fact this doctor was appointed by the CT state attorney, but thanks for clarifying.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; February 2nd, 2014 at 08:06 PM.



    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


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  4. #94
    Elite Member Kathie_Moffett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Hang on a second there. What proof or even suggestion has there ever been that Mia was abused?
    It's been discussed here and elsewhere; I know I've read stuff but my memory is not what it was. You reminded me with the above story and when you wrote "Bizarre. But they have at least one other (convicted) molester in the family, so maybe they're used to looking away from abuse." I don't assert that it's true about Mia, obviously, but the whole thing would be extra sad and horrible if so. Perhaps someone else has some research?

    Oh, I did read Mia's autobio years ago when it came out--perhaps something she said in there also rang a bell? I gotta get off the internet now! Time to go shopping and make dinner. My fault the leftovers got stolen by raccoons last night...never forget your leftovers on the damn porch!
    Did you know that every time a parent gives in to their kid's whines and buys them candy at the checkout lane, a kitten gets diabetes?-Dlisted
    I dislike groups of people, but I love individuals. Every person you look at, you can see the universe in their eyes, if you're really looking.
    -George Carlin

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    Woody Allen’s Good Name

    By Aaron Bady



    This is a basic principle: until it is proven otherwise, beyond a reasonable doubt, it’s important to extend the presumption of innocence to Dylan Farrow, and presume that she is not guilty of the crime of lying about what Woody Allen did to her.

    If you are saying things like “We can’t really know what happened” and extra-specially pleading on behalf of the extra-special Woody AllenHi, The Daily Beast!, then you are saying that his innocence is more presumptive than hers. You are saying that he is on trial, not her: he deserves judicial safeguards in the court of public opinion, but she does not.
    The damnably difficult thing about all of this, of course, is that you can’t presume that both are innocent at the same time. One of them must be saying something that is not true. But “he said, she said” doesn’t resolve to “let’s start by assume she’s lying,” except in a rape culture, and if you are presuming his innocence by presuming her mendacity, you are rape cultured. It works both ways, or should: if one of them has to be lying for the other to be telling the truth, then presuming the innocence of one produces a presumption of the other’s guilt. And Woody Allen cannot be presumed to be innocent of molesting a child unless she is presumed to be lying to us. His presumption of innocence can only be built on the presumption that her words have no credibility, independent of other (real) evidence, which is to say, the presumption that her words are not evidence. If you want to vigorously claim ignorance–to assert that we can never know what happened, in that attic–then you must ground that lack of knowledge in the presumption that what she has said doesn’t count, and we cannot believe her story.
    To be blunt: I think Woody Allen probably did it, though, of course, I could be wrong. But it’s okay if I’m wrong. For two reasons. First, because my opinion is not attached to a juridical apparatus—because I have not been empowered by jails and electric chairs and states of exception to destroy people’s lives—it isn’t necessary for me to err heavily on the side of “we need to be really fucking sure that the accused did it.” It’s a good thing, generally, that juries are empowered to say “We think the accused is probably guilty, but we’re not sure beyond a reasonable doubt, so we will not convict.” That bar is set high for a reason; if you’re going to lock a person in a cage for a long time, you need to be really sure. But we are also empowered to say the same thing. We are also empowered to say “We think Woody Allen probably molested a seven year old.” And because we are not in a court of law, we don’t even need to say the second part. The fact that we will not convict him doesn’t even need to be implied. He is not, after all, on trial.
    The second reason it’s okay if I’m wrong is that I’m probably not wrong. It’s much more likely that I’m right. Because I am not on Woody Allen’s jury, I can be swayed by the fact that sexual violence is incredibly, horrifically common, much more common than it is for women to make up stories about sexual violence in pursuit of their own petty, vindictive need to destroy a great man’s reputation. We are in the midst of an ongoing, quiet epidemic of sexual violence, now as always. We are not in the midst of an epidemic of false rape charges, and that fact is important here. All things being equal, it’s more likely that the man who has spent a lifetime and a cinematic career walking the line of pedophilia (to put it mildly); all things being equal, the explanation that doesn’t require you to imagine a conspiracy of angry women telling lies for no reason is probably the right one. It’s a good thing that juries can’t think this way, that they can’t take account of Occam’s Razor, because—in theory—the juridical system needs to get it right every single time (or at least hold tenaciously to that ambition). But you and I can recognize the bigger picture, because we aren’t holding a person’s life in our hands. Especially in situations like this one, the overwhelmingly more likely thing is that he did it. The overwhelmingly less likely thing is that a pair of bitter females—driven by jealousy or by the sheer malignity of the gender—have been lying about him for decades.
    What is the burden of proof for assuming that a person is lying? If you are a famous film director, it turns out to be quite high. You don’t have to say a word in your defense, in fact, and people who have directed documentaries about you will write lengthy essays in the Daily Beast tearing down the testimony of your accusers. You can just go about your life making movie after movie, and it’s fine. But if you are a woman who has accused a great film director of molesting you when you were seven, the starting point is the presumption that, without real evidence, you are not telling the truth. In the court of public opinion, a woman accusing a great film director of raping her has no credibility which his fans are bound to respect. He has something to lose, his good name. She does not, because she does not have a good name. She is living in hiding, under an assumed name. And when she is silent, the Daily Beast does not rise to her defense.
    In a rape culture, there is no burden on us to presume that she is not a liar, no necessary imperative to treat her like a person whose account of herself can be taken seriously. It is important that we presume he is innocent. It is not important that we presume she is not making it all up out of female malice. In a rape culture, you can say things like “We can’t really know what really happened, so let’s all act as if Woody Allen is innocent (and she is lying).” In a rape culture, you can use your ignorance to cast doubt on her knowledge; you can admit that you have no basis for casting doubt on Dylan’s statement, and then you can ignore her account of herself. A famous man is not speaking, so her testimony is not admissible evidence. His name is Woody Allen, and in a rape culture, that good name must be shielded and protected. What is her name?”
    Woody Allen’s Good Name – The New Inquiry

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    Elite Member Fly_On_TheWall's Avatar
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    It's sad because this is one seriously fucked up family. Mia & Woody are messed up and I think this is the reason why some people don't believe Dylan. The adults lives were bizarre. Having said that, I believe Dylan. Why Mia tried to keep it private is strange for sure, but even 20 yrs ago was a different time than now...things like that were still kept private. Woody is a powerful man in Hollywood. Stars still kiss his ass and turn a blind eye to what he did. It's not like celebrities are knows for their morals.
    Sometimes it is what it is. There's no big conspiracies. What does this young woman have to gain by doing this. She's getting trashed badly. She just wants her truth out. She was molested. Her molester just happens to be a famous movie star.
    I know I babbled.Sorry. But there is no shame coming forward. She's being trashed and people wondered why she didn't come forward sooner? There's your reason.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathie_Moffett View Post
    It's been discussed here and elsewhere; I know I've read stuff but my memory is not what it was. You reminded me with the above story and when you wrote "Bizarre. But they have at least one other (convicted) molester in the family, so maybe they're used to looking away from abuse." I don't assert that it's true about Mia, obviously, but the whole thing would be extra sad and horrible if so. Perhaps someone else has some research? !
    Oh, I did read Mia's autobio years ago when it came out--perhaps something she said in there also rang a bell? I gotta get off the internet now! Time to go shopping and make dinner. My fault the leftovers got stolen by raccoons last night...never forget your leftovers on the damn porch!
    I've never heard that she was. A source would be great.

    The Farrow convicted, and currently serving a jail term for molestation is Mia's brother John.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; February 2nd, 2014 at 08:07 PM.
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    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Mia's brother plead guilty to abusing two boys for about 10 years and is in prison in Maryland. The sentence is 25 years. Her other brother committed suicide 5-6 years ago. Her family is fucked up and then she got involved with a nut job like Woody. Hell he couldn't even live in the same house with her and the kids because of his insanity. Yet she thought he would be a good father?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    Mia's brother plead guilty to abusing two boys for about 10 years and is in prison in Maryland. The sentence is 25 years. Her other brother committed suicide 5-6 years ago. Her family is fucked up and then she got involved with a nut job like Woody. Hell he couldn't even live in the same house with her and the kids because of his insanity. Yet she thought he would be a good father?
    A good sign of her own abuse in my opinion, as is the conviction of her brother and suicide of the other brother. Abuse victims have a hard time distinguishing abuse for what it is and identifying abusers for what they are. Predators like to prey on just those sorts of women.
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    For a long time I wanted to believe that Woody was a sicko. But now I realize that it was mainly because I did not want to admit to myself that I would doubt the victim(Dylan). Like many have said here, I'm sure Dylan believes that the abuse happened. I'll never say that she's a liar, but I won't say I know for certain things happened as she described. The stories from both sides are kind of fucked up. So I don't want to rush into either Mia's or Woody's defense. I do hope Dylan finds some peace. If Woody is not guilty, I do feel sorry for him to be put on public trial on the internet. If he is guilty, well he's a sicko that escaped when he needed to be locked up.
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    I believe Dylan. It took guts for her to tell her story and too often reports of abuse aren't believed, which in my opinion is victimizing the victim. I never gave much of a shit about WA one way or the other, but my eyebrows were raised over the Soon-Yi debacle. Just not normal.

    I do think Mia must be very unstable too, these poor kids must have lived a nightmare.
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    It's been awhile since I read Mia's book but I don't recall anything about her being abused as a kid. She did have an illness (polio, I think?) as a kid and talked about how it fucked her up. She was close to her brother John and her sister Prudence (of Beatles' song) fame. She grew up as Hollywood royalty and her made her childhood sound idyllic up until she got sick, though I don't remember much about her father.
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    Maybe the more important issue here is why this seriously dysfunctional, fucked up "family" was allowed to adopt a tribe of vulnerable kids in the first place. Allen AND Farrow are clearly nutso and if they weren't wealthy celebs they wouldn't have been able to adopt a goldfish. With all the accusations and innuendos flying around I really don't know who to believe but Dylan's story certainly seems plausible which makes her mother's apparent complicity even more disturbing.
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    Sometimes it is what it is. There's no big conspiracies. What does this young woman have to gain by doing this. She's getting trashed badly. She just wants her truth out.


    Kids very rarely lie about abuse unprompted, however it is sadly not unheard of for kids to be manipulated into believing it by adults involved. I've not seen anyone argue that Dylan is deliberately lying, but it's entirely possible to believe something that didn't happen, especially if you then spent your entire childhood where that was reinforced. I worked as a paralegal for a family law attorney and since then I never, ever underestimate what people will do in a breakup. Even with seemingly normal people, it was like so many of them had a hidden switch flipped when they split from their significant other, and nothing mattered except destroying the other person. It was just fucking astonishing the scorched earth tactics people would take over the tiniest things.

    There's no doubt in my mind Mia has fostered a very bitter atmosphere and enlisted her children to speak out against Woody in IMO unhealthy ways. That makes getting at the truth difficult. For example in Mia's book, she writes quite a bit about Moses, her oldest child with Woody. IIRC Mia had adopted Moses and then when she got together with Woody he and Moses bonded and so he adopted Moses as well. He was older, I think a teenager when the whole scandal went down. Anyway, Mia was constant in the stories in her book about how Woody was uninterested in Moses, they didn't get along, when Moses visited Woody on the set because he was interested in film it was boring and he had a bad time, etc. In my mind, that brought up the reasonable question of why Mia continued to be with Woody when she had a ton of kids and according to her Woody was completely uninterested as a dad. Second it made me wonder if Mia had any grace regarding her children at all, because if what she said was true (and apparently since the book Moses has become estranged with Mia and is now close with Woody, so it wasn't what Moses felt at least) it would just make me, if I were the kid, feel so shitty. It struck me as the literary version of, "You know your father never liked you. You know he doesn't love, I'm the only one who loves you" and all that bullshit. I don't care if you feel that it's true or not, you never let your kid feel that way. It's similar to the way she wrote about Soon-Yi, as if Mia bonded with the kids not as a mother would with kids, but as people to be her dependents and support.
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    Elite Member Geest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockchick View Post
    I believe Dylan. It took guts for her to tell her story and too often reports of abuse aren't believed, which in my opinion is victimizing the victim. I never gave much of a shit about WA one way or the other, but my eyebrows were raised over the Soon-Yi debacle. Just not normal.

    I do think Mia must be very unstable too, these poor kids must have lived a nightmare.

    ITA
    A couple of years ago I read a compilation, someone on the net was collecting info that made me think and believe that WA is a sick person, so is Mia but in a different way. Anywhoo, i never thought WA was a genious and ever since the Soon Yi story, i've been avoiding his films. He gives me the creeps. All of these snippets on top of it all just make me look at his contributing actors and actresses wide eyed. Can't they feel the evil in him? Or, is he genuinely ok? We so don't know what goes on in a person's head, really.
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