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Thread: Model Maggie Rizer's Golden Retriever Dies on Airline Flight

  1. #16
    Elite Member Kathie_Moffett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czb View Post
    ^^^ did you read what i wrote? if the suit is based in california, she CANNOT win a lot of money.
    If I'd read what you'd written, I would have written a different reply.

    Lack of sleep is definitely hitting my reading comprehension hard. ugh.
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  2. #17
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    This is why I don't fly my dog inside the USA. There are absolutely no ethical or legal reason for US airlines to give a shit about your animal.

    EU carriers (Lufthansa being my favorite) have a "precious cargo" area which is kept in cabin conditions. Stewardesses can even visit the area and check on your dog. I like Lufthansa best because they are very stringent with the owner requirements (extra days food taped to crate and state health certificates) and the protocols for animal handling by baggage handlers.
    Holy crap, I thought that was the standard for all airlines.
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  3. #18
    czb
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    ^^^ trust me, i get the lack of sleep issue.

    anyway, there is a local vet who has been fighting this issue (about the value of pets in lawsuits) for years.

    eta: response to kathie.
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  4. #19
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    OMG, how fucking horrible. But yeah, I wouldn't trust putting a pet in cargo. Not blaming her, the dog was probably too big to be put in a carry-on.

    When we moved to Miami Beach, the dog went with my husband and son when he drove our vehicles at the time (my Pathfinder pulling his truck). I flew with the cat in a carry-on. We gave the cat a sedative that we tested beforehand. It didn't knock him out, but kept him calm enough that I was able to remove him from the carry-on while it went through the xray. I walked through the metal detector holding him and then placed him back in the carry on, as required. He was so quiet that once on the plane honestly no one even knew I had a cat. Every now and then I'd poke my hand in there to pet him.

    I remember kind of sweating it because regulations stated a 15# limit. My cat by himself was 15#. And I know good and well the carry on was a least a couple pounds, even though it was regulation size and he fit in it fine. I was hoping there was no scale, and there wasn't, thank goodness. I'd ordered him a few things from PetSmart (litter&box, food) to have delivered to one of my family members at my destination, so they were waiting in the house we would be going to after I got picked up at the airport

    When we moved back here we all drove, the cats (we acquired another while living down there) were both comfy in a carrier that used to be the dog's lined with their bed, the dog rode in one of the vehicles as usual.

    I just don't trust these goddamned airlines. I don't think I could travel without mine right next to me. Especially after fucking stories like this. Poor doggy.
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  5. #20
    Elite Member ConstanceSpry's Avatar
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    This is so sad, and would be so easily avoidable. If Lufthansa can make travel for animals safe, other airlines can as well. They are just too cheap and greedy to do so. Assholes, the lot of them.

    Edited to add, I just googled size limits for pets in cabins, and looks like they will make exceptions for first class passengers, but not for business or regular. Figures!
    'I had to get rid of the kid. The cat was allergic.'

  6. #21
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    That is one of the worst things imaginable. That poor baby must have been so scared. I'll never fly with my animals. Why can't there be special flights that allow animals to stay with their owners? What kind of fucked up world do we live in where dogs are put with the cargo?
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  7. #22
    czb
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    ^^^ there is an airline in the US that specializes in pet travel - the pets don't go in cargo but i don't believe they go to many US cities.

    and as stated above, larger dogs can fly in first class. not sure of the cost or what documentation is needed, though. i've actually had to share space in business class with a large lab, once.

  8. #23
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    When your pet flys, you take a risk.

    If you're flying internationally, there are stringent regulations, just as they are in the EU (Live Animals), I can't speak for (in) the US.
    Additionally cargo areas carrying live animals are heated/cooled and the final decision on the day whether to carry that cargo remains with the pilot. For example, you can arrange to send your White Rhino to Berlin to be part of the EU Breeding program, you can arrange CITES & the export/import paperwork, but on the day if the plane lands late & there isnt time to heat the hold to temperature before departure, your rhino isn't going anywhere!
    Also, airlines can decline to carry more than one cargo of live stock/animals (eg a family is taking a pet to their new home in Azabaijan & there is a load of livestock booked on the same plane, one load isn't going. I've seen hundreds of thousands of pounds (£) worth of livestock refused a flight because a family pet is on there....

    Although there are international regulations, each airline can have their own procedures within those reg too. Some allow small animals in the cabin, others do not.

    BTW IATA discourage the use of sedatives for animals on flight due to them harming themselves more in that state. This is backed by veterinary societies as well. http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/l.../sedation.aspx
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkbunnyslippers View Post
    ^Thank you, that is good to know about Lufthansa. My fiance and I will eventually move to Germany, and we are going to buy a Russian Blue kitten very soon. We were wondering about how it would all work out.

    Cats and small dogs can definitely travel in the cabin with you. Most airlines charge around $80. At no time can any part of the animal be out of the carrier, whether in the airport or on the plane. This article by Liz Smith is both informative and accurate. How To Travel with Your Pet by Air: Pet Transportation

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flygirl View Post
    Cats and small dogs can definitely travel in the cabin with you. Most airlines charge around $80. At no time can any part of the animal be out of the carrier, whether in the airport or on the plane. This article by Liz Smith is both informative and accurate. How To Travel with Your Pet by Air: Pet Transportation
    One of the biggest problems with owners flying their pets to foreign countries is that they arrive without the appropriate health certification. She really skirts over this topic.
    You really need to be aware that while countries' govt departments will try to help, they sometimes cannot re-import animals without the appropriate papers and the importing country will not allow them in. Worse case senario, Tiddles is euthanised. Obviously every possible effort is made to prevent this but ensuring that owners comply with the importing country's health certification is vital.
    So if you are traveling from the US to some other country contact the USDA & ask them to assist you. Please.

    Also, animal container sizes are regulated by IATA (Home) not the airlines & this information is available online. Airlines have to comply with these (international) regulations.
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  11. #26
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    The other thing I found out the hard way is to check the arrival country's national holidays. My dog arrived ok in Spain but he was kenneled over the weekend because he arrived on a holiday Friday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    One of the biggest problems with owners flying their pets to foreign countries is that they arrive without the appropriate health certification. She really skirts over this topic.
    You really need to be aware that while countries' govt departments will try to help, they sometimes cannot re-import animals without the appropriate papers and the importing country will not allow them in. Worse case senario, Tiddles is euthanised. Obviously every possible effort is made to prevent this but ensuring that owners comply with the importing country's health certification is vital.
    So if you are traveling from the US to some other country contact the USDA & ask them to assist you. Please.

    Also, animal container sizes are regulated by IATA (Home) not the airlines & this information is available online. Airlines have to comply with these (international) regulations.
    Vouch for all of this! If the USDA demands you jump through hoops, ask how high. It's worth it! I've never had a problem if I followed every instruction to the letter. For instance Germany requires two types of ink on every document, blue and black, one for signature, one for filling the form, and lots of stamps. We do it all, every bit, and get waved through.

    To get a pet into some foreign countries, like Great Britain, you have to get blood work done for rabies anti-bodies. Hey, it's better than quarantine. We did it for our dog just in case we end up in GB.

    Just do whatever the USDA says for the country you plan on going to. Their website is easy to navigate but the forms are unfriendly. Go to a vet who has filled out the forms before - any vet near an army/marine base is good.

    Also contact the airline and ask what their own individual requirements are. Separate health certificates are needed that adhere to the airline.

    Lastly (and the biggest hassle unsurprisingly) is getting your pet back into the USA requires another set of papers and conditions. US Customs is a bit foggy on their own specifications, so you have to politely talk them through their own process (after a 10 hour flight and long lines to get to them.) I bring a current copy of the US pet import policy in my dog's file and try to bat my eyelashes and smile.

    I figure it's all for the good of my beast so I'll do whatever it takes.
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  13. #28
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Good point B, never travel to land at the weekend, and remember that not every country has a weekend in Saturday & Sunday.

    Importing into the US is always interesting as you have to satisfy both national and state import conditions.
    There is a lot of info on the USDA site Pets | USDA and also on the APHIS site USDA - APHIS - Import and Export
    One thing to remember is just as one has to satisfy the import conditions when going abroad (e.g. US to Germany) once the animal has been out of the country it has been subject to different disease conditions whilst abroad and therefore the animal needs to be able to satisfy the import conditions that any animal being imported into the US would need to satisfy (if that makes sense?). One way to look at it is that this paperwork is the animals' passport (& thus needs to travel with the animal).
    So, one set of paperwork to export and another set of paperwork to import.
    In the EU the vets are state employees or agents so elect to have specific training.
    Another thing to remember is that certain pets in the EU have their own passport system (complete with photo!!!!) that allows them to travel within the EU without having to be quarantined for rabies for 6 months at a time.
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  14. #29
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    I still have that eu pet passport! Cracked me up how it HAD to have a photo. Doggie ID
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  15. #30
    A*O
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    Considering how US domestic airlines treat their human passengers is anyone really shocked this happened? Unless I was leaving the country permanently and had no choice I'd never fly my dogs anywhere.
    If all the women in this place were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be surprised - Dorothy Parker

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