Michael Jackson dies at age 50 from cardiac arrest

[lurkur]

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

anybody? anybody want to point out how any of that does not match with jacko?

Pedophiles are alive.

[AliceInWonderland]

[Elisa]

What disturbs me as much as Michael letting kids sleep with him is the fact that the parents allowed it to happen. Where the hell were they? I don't care how far up Michael's ass I'd be as a fan, I'd know exactly where my kid was inside that home. Still, no one seems to see the parents having any fault in all of this.

I don't in any way condone his sleeping with kids - wrong! wrong! wrong! - but I do have a problem with the parents trying to profit off of it when they're as guilty for turning a blind eye to something right under their nose. The media said the parents were often at Neverland making nicey, nicey with Mr. Jackson too. Do people really believe the extortion wasn't a part of this at all?

[Grimmlok]

A SHOCK video of Michael Jackson defending himself as he is quizzed over child abuse allegations has been uncovered by the News of the World.

The bombshell tape - never before made public - shows the King of Pop NERVOUSLY LAUGHING, COVERING HIS FACE with his hands in dismay and GROANING IRRITABLY as a team of lawyers grilled him in 1996 as part of a lawsuit brought against him by Neverland staff.

You can watch the footage by clicking below.

Michael Jackson's video nasty | News | News Of The World

Thriller star Jackson-who died last week-SQUIRMS at times as he is questioned about allegations surrounding Jordy Chandler, Home Alone star Macaulay Culkin and Brett Barnes.

But at one point in the frank and revealing footage, the star launches into a spirited defence of himself in which he:

INSISTS he is NOT GAY.

DENIES bleaching his skin and says he is PROUD to be black

SLAMS his child abuse accusers as LIARS and cites the teachings of JESUS to defend his sleeping in the same bed as boy visitors to his Neverland ranch in California.

"Jesus said to love the children and be like the children-to be youthful and innocent, and be pure and honourable," says Jackson reading from a statement he has written.

"He always surrounded himself with children. That's how I was raised-to believe, and to be like that, and to imitate that."

The three-hour video was made in March, 1996-three years after Jackson was first accused of molesting 13-year-old Jordy Chandler who was reportedly paid $22 million not to testify against him.
Stand

And it was filmed NINE YEARS before he faced trial over alleged abuse of cancer sufferer Gavin Arvizo, 13-in which prosecutors also claimed he had abused Barnes, 11, and Culkin between the ages of 10 and 14. He was cleared despite refusing to take the stand.

Our tape shows a legal hearing as part of the private suit against the star by what became known as The Neverland Five-a group of former workers at the estate who claimed wrongful dismissal.

One of the key arguments put forward by their chief lawyer Michael Ring was that Jackson, then 37, had threatened staff who claimed they witnessed him behaving inappropriately with children.

The camera focuses on the pale-looking star-wearing a black jacket, red shirt, and black hat-sitting at a table in the hearing room at the Four Seasons Hotel in New York.

He is looking steadfastly forward at the legal team in front of him-including Ring and co-counsel Ruth Ann Niosi. Sat off camera are his briefs, Steve Cochrane and legal adviser Zia Modabber.

But his demeanour is shattered when asked by Ring: "Mr Jackson, in the latter portion of 1993 there were some allegations levelled at you concerning improper conduct with some young boys."
Smile

Jackson's face breaks into a weary smile before he straightens it and answers: "Yes". When asked "Are you familiar with a person named Jordy Chandler?", the distracted star at first looks stunned and asks: "Who?"

A few seconds later, as Ring and one of Jackson's aides discuss legal issues about whether or not the star will answer questions about Chandler, the singer bites his lip, picks up papers in front of him and hides behind them for a second before putting them down and trying-and failing-to stifle a huge yawn.

But when asked if he was aware that "Jordan Chandler, or his family on his behalf, filed a litigation, a lawsuit, against you" he lowers himself in his chair and quietly says: "Yes." The star is clearly nervous about the questioning, at one point leaning across the table to apparently look at the opposing lawyers' notes. Looking gaunt and scratching his neck, chest and head, Jackson fidgets through a series of questions about the staff at his ranch who have spoken out against him, revealing that although he has heard their names he doesn't know what job they did.

But it is when the boys are mentioned that he becomes the most animated. At one point Ring asks him: "To your knowledge Mr Jackson, were you ever accused of having sexually molested Brett Barnes?"
Case

The Aussie boy, then 11, slept in the same room as Jackson for a year, according to the testimony of his sister Karlee in documents submitted for the Jordy Chandler case.

But Barnes and his mother insisted nothing inappropriate happened. Clearly disturbed by the question, Jackson squirms away from the camera, closes his eyes and covers his face, before breaking into a smile and shaking his head.

After more legal argument, Ring moves onto child screen star Culkin, asking: "To your knowledge, were you ever accused of having sexually assaulted Macaulay Culkin?"

Again Jackson throws his hands up to his face in frustration, groaning: "Oh."

His lawyer Cochrane quickly says: "That's an instruction not to answer that one." Jackson doesn't. Instead he shakes his head and smiles before looking into the camera. But as the lawyers battle on, the Bad star becomes increasingly agitated and produces a series of his own handwritten documents.

Jackson admits it is a list he made, saying: "When I get angry enough I write down what I want to say and what I want to talk about, to set the record straight.

"Cos you get to a point where you get tired of people lying. I get tired of situations like this, where people completely lie on me, and I'm sick of it . . . I want to set the record straight."

Jackson first denies bleaching his skin. "I'm a black American and I'm proud of it. And I'm honoured of it," he says. "The bleached skin rumour, which is a rumour. I don't bleach my skin. He adds: "They say-they once said-I wanted a white kid to play me as a child, which was a rumour."

Then he blurts out: "I'm not gay." And he adds in faltering, disjointed speech: "Don't judge a person unless you have spoken to them one-on-one, which, which is true. 'Cos what you hear is a lie."

The star, who was raised a Jehovah's Witness by his parents in Gary, Indiana, tries to defend his behaviour with children by referring to teachings in the Bible.

He says: "He (Jesus) was talking to his apostles, and they were fighting over who's the greatest among themselves. And he said, 'Whoever humble yourself like this child is the greatest among me'."

Jackson seems distracted by the nitty-gritty details about his sacked staff. He denies bugging workers, and using radio transmitters disguised as pens. To other questions about them he answered either "I don't remember" or "I'm not sure".

As the hearing drew to a close Jackson seems totally uninterested in the proceedings, grinning at his lawyers' doodles on notepads and saying: "That's good."

What was also good for Jackson was that the sex abuse discussions on the tape were discounted in the civil case which he later won.

Michael Jackson's video nasty | News | News Of The World

CREEEEEEEpy.. nice bandaid on his nose too

[Kittylady]

MARCH 15--Michael Jackson "doesn't really qualify as a pedophile. He's really just this regressed 10-year-old."

That was the surprising evaluation offered to police by Dr. Stanley Katz, the Los Angeles psychologist who interviewed the singer's teenage accuser and the boy's brother--and who is expected to soon testify as a government witness at Jackson's molestation trial.

In a taped June 2003 telephone interview, Katz, 55, gave a Santa Barbara sheriff's investigator his "off the record" opinion of the 46-year-old entertainer. Jackson, Katz told Det. Paul Zelis, "is a guy that's like a 10-year-old child. And, you know, he's doing what a 10-year-old would do with his little buddies. You know, they're gonna jack off, watch movies, drink wine, you know. And, you know, he doesn't even really qualify as a pedophile. He's really just this regressed 10-year-old."

Ok well first of all, when I was 10 I wasn't jacking off and drinking alcohol and I certainly wasn't doing it with friends, and if this was a ten year old that I knew who was doing this I would have serious concerns about what was going on with their homelife and overall welfare. Also, this isn't a ten year old who they are talking about, it is a grown man, and no matter how you look at it a grown man induging in these activities with or in the presence of children IS WRONG!

After Jackson's trial, Slate's Jacob Weisberg argued forcefully that Jackson did not fit the typical profile of a sexual predator and was instead stuck in a state of asexual arrested development.

The dots, Weisberg wrote, connect quite easily between Jackson's tormented childhood -- abusive father, various sexual traumas, life in the spotlight, lack of conventional upbringing -- and the sad spectacle of his later years.

"Almost everything that seems freakish about him can be explained by his poignant, doomed effort to get his stolen childhood back...

"What emerged at the trial wasn't the picture of a man playing with children in order to seduce them. It was the picture of a man playing with children because he sees himself as one of them."

Weisberg isn't a psychologist, he is a political and financial journalist and commentator. And although it may be that Jackson's behaviour can be explained by examining his childhood does not, IN ANY WAY, excuse or make ok his behaviour as an adult. If we take that route then surely we must forgive and forget the crimes of any abuser who was themselves abused as a child and concentrate soley in the things that they did that were "nice". Or does this only apply if you are rich and famous?

Is Michael Jackson Stuck in Childhood?
Michael Jackson Seems Stuck in Permanent Childhood, Psychiatrists Say
By Joanna Schaffhausen

Nov. 21

For years, Michael Jackson's eccentric behavior has fascinated the world. Now, some medical experts are wondering whether the King of Pop suffers from some "psycho-emotional" retardation that causes him to live in a kind of permanent childhood.

With an amusement park for a back yard and penchant for entertaining young friends, is Jackson just a big kid himself, or could his actions signal something more troubling?

Jackson, 45, surrendered Thursday to police in Santa Barbara County, Calif., after authorities obtained an arrest warrant accusing him of multiple counts of child molestation. Jackson has denied the allegations and says he will be vindicated in court.

The singer spends a great deal of his time associating with children, but he himself maintains many childlike qualities. He speaks in a childlike voice and pursues childish activities such as scooter riding (even when children are not present). Like Peter Pan, he even lives in a place called Neverland.

There are many accounts that this was an adopted personna, and that his real voice was much deeper and mature sounding.

Permanent Childhood

Many people love children, and there is nothing necessarily sinister about Jackson's affinity for youngsters. None of the experts in forensic psychiatry and child development who were interviewed had any direct knowledge of the case, and none made any judgment on Jackson's possible guilt or innocence.

It is the seemingly extreme childishness that Jackson himself exhibits that experts find unique.

Television interviews with Jackson make it appear as if he wants to "hang onto and preserve his childlike demeanor," said Dr. Fred Berlin, a psychiatric expert in pedophilia at Johns Hopkins University. "He seems proud of it."

"He seems stuck in childhood himself," said forensic psychiatrist Ryan Finkenbine of West Virginia University Medical School. "It's one of the more interesting aspects of the case."

Michael Borack, a forensic psychiatrist at the University of Cincinnati Medical School, has evaluated many pedophiles, and says Jackson does not fit the usual profile.

"[His eccentric behavior] is not typical of most offenders," Borack said. "Most offenders are 'normal' people who could be your neighbors, not freaky or weird."

Most pedophiles will keep toys or other such appealing items around to lure children, but they do not usually play with the items much themselves.

I didn't realise that kiddy fiddlers came in cookie cutter designs? And while they agree that his behaviour does not fit with most typical offenders we also have to take into account that his wealth and fame allowed him to behave in an "eccentric" and unusual way. It provided him with the safety, security and enablers to act like this, as well as the financial resources to indulge his whims. An ordinary person, without the wealth and celebrity of Jackson would have been shunned by most parts of society and possibly even have already have spent time in a prison or mental care facility. Jackson, externally, at least, wouldn't have fitted the text book scenario because his life was not comparable to your average Joe.

Richard Lawlor, chief of Outpatient Forensic Child Psychiatry Services at the Indiana School of Medicine, notes that many pedophiles do display some form of arrested development in that they choose to focus their attention on young children over other adults. "They become 'fixated' during development," Lawlor said. "We don't know why."

However, Lawlor says Jackson's childish demeanor would be rare among pedophiles. "I don't think that kind of behavior is very common," he said.

Rare and uncommon, but again, not impossible. And again, Jackson's wealth and fame lifted him out of the realm of "common" and into "uncommon".

Some experts feel that pedophiles display a kind of Peter Pan syndrome and use children to hang onto their youth. Berlin cautions that this explanation is perhaps too hasty. "That's getting into a theory of cause, which I think is difficult," he said.

Berlin maintains there is no "typical" pedophile. "That's like saying, 'What is the typical heterosexual?'"

However, Ken Lanning, a retired FBI special agent who specialized in child sex crimes, says Jackson may fit some of the characteristics of an "acquaintance molester." Acquaintance molesters choose victims outside the family and seduce children with affection and attention.

But, he cautioned, "Just because you have some of the characteristics, it does not mean you are guilty."

It wouldn't necessarily mean guilt, no, but it could be a very strong indicator that this person has some deep issues that need to be addressed and investigated and until that time (and beyond) that person should not be allowed to have one-on-one contact with children.

Not an Excuse

Jackson raised eyebrows when he told British journalist Martin Bashir in a documentary that he has allowed children to sleep in his bed at the Neverland Ranch. He said there was nothing sexual about it.

If Jackson does suffer from some form of psycho-emotional retardation, it's possible he thought innocent snuggling in bed would be OK, experts say. However, Borack pointed out, "Jackson is an adult with an adult's sex drive."

Experts agree that, regardless of what may or may not have happened with Jackson, children should not be sleeping with unrelated adults of the opposite gender. "It just opens the door for misunderstandings at best," said Borack.

Borack speculates that Jackson's tumultuous upbringing may have left lasting emotional scars that help explain his odd behavior as an adult. "From what I've observed in TV interviews, Jackson had a violent, dictatorial father and an isolated upbringing. He never really had a childhood."

In any event, Jackson's eccentricities have increased the attention surrounding the scandal.

"[Jackson] is such an unusual person," Berlin said. "It makes the case that much more difficult."

Copyright © 2009 ABC News Internet Ventures

[Seapharris7]

Originally Posted by Elisa

What disturbs me as much as Michael letting kids sleep with him is the fact that the parents allowed it to happen. Where the hell were they? I don't care how far up Michael's ass I'd be as a fan, I'd know exactly where my kid was inside that home. Still, no one seems to see the parents having any fault in all of this.

I don't in any way condone his sleeping with kids - wrong! wrong! wrong! - but I do have a problem with the parents trying to profit off of it when they're as guilty for turning a blind eye to something right under their nose. The media said the parents were often at Neverland making nicey, nicey with Mr. Jackson too. Do people really believe the extortion wasn't a part of this at all?

^ Thank you! You may not feel exactly the same - but I have often wondered the same thing. I dont believe Jackson ever did what those "kids" (sorry - but they were fucking teens) said. And I'm not a huge fan, but if my son said to me "hey I'm invited to Neverland"- I'd responded with "Awesome, when are WE GOING?!?"

I'm the kind of parent who actually cares when my son stays overnight somewhere... my father, with only one daughter - ME - was the same. He always wanted me to clarify that if my friends, girls, where spending the night at my place - he wanted their parents to know he was a single male... and if they had had a problem, he understood, because he couldn't say he would have felt different if the shoe was on the other foot.

[Grimmlok]

a 13 year old is still a fucking child

[nancydrew]

I do not, and will never, understand the people taking up and making excuses for him, and actually fucking justifying his pedophilia, its actually quite sickening to me.

[Seapharris7]

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

a 13 year old is still a fucking child

Agreed Grim... legally it is - but at 13 - I knew sleeping with an adult was a very big no-no.

Originally Posted by nancydrew

I do not, and will never, understand the people taking up and making excuses for him, and actually fucking justifying his pedophilia, its actually quite sickening to me.

Ugh... I'm asking where the hell were the parents... seems like a valid question especially considering how in ALL (100s... maybe thousands?) of the kids that went to Neverland... only 2 came forward... hum... and the first settled out of court (easy way out - no matter what the truth was) and then the 2nd was... um... had parents KNOWN to milk celebs out of money given their child's cancer...?

I'm not saying MJ didnt do stupid things or was too trusting of certain people - but... where the hell were the parents is all I'm asking...

[Sarzy]

Originally Posted by nancydrew

I do not, and will never, understand the people taking up and making excuses for him, and actually fucking justifying his pedophilia, its actually quite sickening to me.

I just read that article above and I felt sickened. I want to bloody slap anyone that tries to pull that 'oh but he was just like a 10 year old really' crap. There are NO excuses for him abusing kids.

[nancydrew]

Originally Posted by Seapharris7

Agreed Grim... legally it is - but at 13 - I knew sleeping with an adult was a very big no-no.





Ugh... I'm asking where the hell were the parents... seems like a valid question especially considering how in ALL (100s... maybe thousands?) of the kids that went to Neverland... only 2 came forward... hum... and the first settled out of court (easy way out - no matter what the truth was) and then the 2nd was... um... had parents KNOWN to milk celebs out of money given their child's cancer...?

I'm not saying MJ didnt do stupid things or was too trusting of certain people - but... where the hell were the parents is all I'm asking...

But there are 13 year olds that don't know any better, they aren't that bright, weren't raised right, etc... pedos usually prey on those types more than the ones that know that shit is wrong.
The parents were probably too starstruck to see through the bullshit. Or just fucking retarded, piss poor parents.That doesn't justify their neglect in the situation, and doesn't give the sick fuck the right to sexually abuse the kids, though.

[celeb_2006]

One of the jurors who did not find MJ guilty (his quote was posted multiple times on this thread) himself believed that MJ was guilty of molesting. His belief was that no way was a kid sleeping in MJ's same bed for a year and nothing happened. Yet at the same time he and the others STILL voted to find him not guilty, giving him the warning to not do this anymore.

WTF? So some of them felt he molested kids, and they STILL let him off the hook?

"Celebrity" justice MJ style.

[cupcake]

no justice

[celeb_2006]

Mya Clark (L), 5, and her cousin Shanta Hardy, 5, sit by a memorial for deceased pop star Michael Jackson outside the Jackson family home in Encino, California July 2, 2009. Jackson, the child star turned King of Pop who set the world dancing but whose musical genius was overshadowed by a bizarre lifestyle and sex scandals. Jackson was 50.
REUTERS/Mario Anzuoni (UNITED STATES ENTERTAINMENT OBITUARY)


Singer Michael Jackson (2nd R) poses with his children Michael Joseph Jr. (L), Paris Michael Katherine (C) and Prince Michael II (front C) and real estate developer Mohamed Hadid (L), with Hadid's unidentified children, on November 27, 2008 at Jackson's Holmby Hills residence in Los Angeles, California.

[celeb_2006]

AP Interview: Jackson adviser Tohme breaks silence

AP Interview: Jackson adviser Tohme breaks silence - Yahoo! News

LOS ANGELES – Dr. Tohme Tohme vividly remembers the first time he met with Michael Jackson to discuss the pop star's finances. It's not the money talk that stays with him now, but his enchantment at entering Jackson's world of love.
"I saw how kind he was and what a wonderful human being," Tohme said in an interview. "I saw him with his children and I had never seen a better father. ... I decided to do what I could to help him."
Tohme, a financier with a murky past, had been contacted by Jackson's brother, Jermaine, who asked if Tohme could help to save Jackson's beloved Neverland ranch from foreclosure. Tohme said he traveled with Jermaine to Las Vegas, where Jackson was living after years of wandering the world following his acquittal on child molestation charges.
They bonded instantly. "For the last year and a half I was the closest person to Michael Jackson," Tohme said. He contacted Tom Barrack, the chairman of Colony Capital and a close personal friend. "He was hesitant to get involved, but I said, 'Let's go see Michael,'" Tohme recalled.
After the meeting he said Barrack, who was impressed with Jackson's "intelligence and focus," bought the note for Neverland. But that was just the beginning of a business relationship that culminated in the London concerts that were to have begun next week.
Wearing a suit with no tie, Tohme, Jackson's last business manager and spokesperson, granted his first interview Friday to The Associated Press in the office of a lawyer friend.
Tohme, listed in public records as being in his late 50s, has been portrayed as something of a mystery man in the Jackson brain trust.
"I hate the words 'mystery man,'" he said. "I'm a private man. A lot of people like the media and I don't. I respect the privacy of other people but lately nobody respects mine."
As he spoke, his cell phone rang constantly. He took only a few calls, one of them from Jesse Jackson.
He has been stung by allegations that he was involved with the Nation of Islam, which he said was untrue.
"I have nothing against anybody," he said, "But I don't know anyone from the Nation of Islam. When I took over Michael Jackson's affairs, I fired some people from the Nation of Islam."
It is known that he is of Lebanese descent. His double name — pronounced toh-MAY' — is not uncommon in the Middle East. But he declined to go into detail about his own life and career other than to say he is a U.S. citizen who was raised in Los Angeles and, "I'm a self-made man. I'm in the world of finance."
"I don't want to talk about me," he said. "I'm a nobody. I'm not important. I want to talk about Michael Jackson."
At times he appeared on the verge of tears as he discussed Jackson's death, saying, "It's unbelievable ... I'm devastated ... God bless his soul."
He said that by talking about Jackson, he was fulfilling one of the star's wishes.
"He always said to me, 'I want people to really know who I am after I'm gone.'"
He would only briefly discuss Jackson's finances. During his time with the superstar, Tohme said, he was paid nothing but was able to negotiate lucrative business deals that would secure the future of Jackson's children. He followed a long line of business managers and spokespeople who had come and gone from Jackson over the years. In the final year, he said he played a pivotal role in turning things around.
His negotiations for Jackson included a Broadway show with the Nederlander organization, an animated TV show based on "Thriller," a line of clothing including "moonwalk shoes," and more. He said he was working with others to renegotiate the terms of Jackson's main assets, his share of the Sony-ATV Music Publishing Catalog — which includes music by the Beatles — and the catalog of Mijac, the company that controls Michael Jackson's own music.
"I am not in the music business. I'm a stranger to this business," Tohme said, noting that he had stiff competition from others who wanted to take over Jackson's finances.
"I built a fence around Michael to keep people out," he said, acknowledging that he cut costs by firing many members of the Jackson staff, including security guards. And he twice fired the children's nanny, Grace Rawaramba, on Jackson's orders.
"I was trying to do what we could to maximize his profits and minimize spending. I wanted to find a way to reel in all the loans he had.
"We had an agreement," Tohme continued. "I would never interfere with his creative decisions and he wouldn't interfere with my business decisions."
Tohme said he abandoned everything he was doing in his own life to concentrate his time and effort on Jackson's affairs. He points with pride to the crown jewel of his and the new Jackson team's efforts: the contract with AEG for concerts at the 02 arena in London.
He said Jackson was looking forward to the concerts because he wanted his children to see him perform.
Like others before him, Tohme was caught up in the excitement of Jackson's world. He traveled with him to London, where they saw the play "Oliver" and were mobbed by fans. "I had never seen fans who loved anyone so much and he loved them just as much," Tohme said.
Tohme uses the title "Dr." and apparently has a medical degree, though there is no record that he has practiced in the United States. He said he was convinced that Jackson was in perfect health the last time he saw him, two days before he died. He said the star kept himself and his children on a healthy diet, never ate red meat, didn't drink and, as far as he knew, never took drugs.
He said he is disappointed that Jackson won't be buried at Neverland but hopes that may change: "He deserves to be buried in the wonderful world he created."
In Jackson's final months, Tohme said they talked about his wish to create "a special place ten times bigger than Graceland" where fans could come to see Jackson's memorabilia and awards.

Jackson even talked about creating a veritable city for children.
"He wanted to be remembered as a great human being and he wanted to create as many happy places for the children of the world as he could," said Tohme.



The day Jackson died, as Tohme rushed to the hospital unsure if his friend was alive or dead, he said he remembered precious moments: Jackson bringing his children to Tohme's house for Thanksgiving dinner; Jackson and his children singing "Happy Birthday" to Tohme on the phone; the last time he saw Jackson at Staples Center, rehearsing for his big comeback.
And he remembered Jackson's last words to him that day: "I love you."