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Thread: Lena Dunham denies child abuse claims stemming from new autobiography

  1. #46
    Elite Member panic's Avatar
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    Yeah, she said it. I heard her say it. I don't make shit up.

  2. #47
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    Just asking, chill. Exaggeration on her part is not surprising, given her thirst for attention.

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    Elite Member panic's Avatar
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    Ah. Yeah, I don't know if she was exaggerating, it's possible. She said it on Jimmy Kimmel about a month ago.

  4. #49
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callalily View Post
    puritanical my ass, this little girl bribed her baby sister with candy and tv time in exchange for kisses, to get the little girl to lay on top of her, body touches. What little kid does that? that is learned predator behavior. She's so dismissive in recounting all of this. Like she's reminiscing on a smashing good time or something.

    once upon a time, there was a little girl of 3 who told her mommy that her 5 year old family member touched her 'down there'. it was all fine and 'experimental' until someone asked the 5 year old why did they touch the 3 year old and the 5 year old told them that an older family member touched them 'there'. When questioning the 14 year old, it came out the the father was molesting 14 year old. True story.

    There's normal sexual curiosity, sure. What Lena did to her baby sister was not. And looking at her parents, specifically her father I can see why this was so 'normal' in that household. Nobody can tell me that lena wasn't re-enacting what was done to her.
    Curious - did you read her book so your perception is based on her actual words or is this based on what has been reported so far which we now know was slanted. My feel from reading what has been reported so far is that she has crossed the lines of normal childhood curiosity. But, I have not read her actual words so I would never go so far as to insinuate that she was abused or cast guilt to her father.

    I am surprised she cancelled her speaking engagements. I would think that would be a perfect setting for her clarify her story and show why the reports calling her a sexual abuser are erroneous. The article below is clearly biased but shows that her childhood was far from white picket fences and apple pie Americana. That is not always a bad thing though.

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/03/le...uote-her-book/

    What happens when normal people find out what Lena Dunham claims she did to her little sister?

    What else? She throws a fit.

    Here’s National Review’s Kevin Williamson with a bit of background on Dunham’s all-American upbringing:


    If there is such a thing as actually abusing a child through excessive generosity and overindulgence, then Lena Dunham’s parents are child abusers. Her father, Carroll Dunham, is a painter noted for his primitive brand of highbrow pornography, his canvases anchored by puffy neon-pink labia; her photographer mother filled the family home with nude pictures of herself, “legs spread defiantly.” Self-styled radicals from old money, they were not the sort of people inclined to enforce even the most lax of boundaries. And they were, in their daughter’s telling, enablers of some very disturbing behavior that would be considered child abuse in many jurisdictions — Lena Dunham’s sexual abuse, specifically, of her younger sister, Grace, the sort of thing that gets children taken away from non-millionaire families without Andover pedigrees and Manhattanite social connections. Dunham writes of casually masturbating while in bed next to her younger sister, of bribing her with “three pieces of candy if I could kiss her on the lips for five seconds . . . anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl I was trying.” At one point, when her sister is a toddler, Lena Dunham pries open her vagina — “my curiosity got the best of me,” she offers, as though that were an explanation. “This was within the spectrum of things I did.”

    Williamson isn’t the only one who noticed. As Ben Shapiro writes:


    On Saturday, HBO’s Lena Dunham sent a “cease and desist” letter to TruthRevolt demanding that we remove an article we posted last Wednesday on sections of her book, Not That Kind of Girl. The letter threatened legal action if we did not both remove that article, as well as print a note, the suggested language of which read as follows:

    “We recently published a story stating that Ms. Dunham engaged in sexual conduct with her sister. The story was false, and we deeply regret having printed it. We apologize to Ms. Dunham, her sister, and their parents, for this false story.”


    We refuse.

    As well they should. What sort of precedent would that set, taking down an article for accurately quoting a book?

    “Sexual predator.” Dunham wrote it. People she hates quoted it. It’s not their fault.

    She’s so upset, she simply can’t face her adoring public:


    The right wing news story that I molested my little sister isn’t just LOL- it’s really fucking upsetting and disgusting.

    — Lena Dunham (@lenadunham) November 1, 2014


    To my Belgian readers, so very sorry to miss the Antwerp Book Fair today but I can’t wait to come back and eat fries with you. Much love.

    — Lena Dunham (@lenadunham) November 2, 2014




    German readers: I am deeply sorry to miss tomorrow’s event in Berlin. I am so grateful for your energy and support. Mit viele liebe.

    — Lena Dunham (@lenadunham) November 3, 2014
    Last edited by sluce; November 4th, 2014 at 10:39 PM.
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  5. #50
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callalily View Post

    There's normal sexual curiosity, sure.
    And there's also just normal curiosity, and not all curiosity about bodies in children is sexualized.

    Quote Originally Posted by callalily View Post
    And looking at her parents, specifically her father I can see why this was so 'normal' in that household. Nobody can tell me that lena wasn't re-enacting what was done to her
    Because of his paintings? Let's play





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  6. #51
    Elite Member InigoMontoya's Avatar
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    Thanks, sput, for your post and perspective.
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  7. #52
    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    Her dad's paintings are shit but the fact that they're nudes means nothing.

    American society is very fucked up about sex. The original blogger at Truth Revolt who started all this hates women and has previous written that those who have abortions should be strung up from trees. But those comments didn't spark an outrage, and no one's parsing his previous articles the way they're searching Dunham's book to find things to be outraged about. Today is an election day where several states have terrible laws on the ballot that will take away women's reproductive rights - look at this celebrity's book dominating headlines because yet another creepy conservative male is obsessed with women.

    In our hypersexualized society, many people seem to have forgotten that genitals are body parts used, sometimes, for sex, but are not inherently sexual. Our society says t's okay to get your tits out and grind your crotch for the sake of entertainment, but for God's sake don't educate kids about their bodies. Rihanna can have a hit song with explicit lyrics like "Rude Boy" play on the radio in the middle of the day, but God forbid we have sex ed in schools. Any teen with the Internet can view hardcore porn, but let's make sure women don't have safe access to abortions.

    So some parents get busted for having photos of their little kids in the bath, or a woman gets attacked for telling a childhood anecdote about looking at her sister's genitals. Meanwhile a movie (Wolf of Wall Street) that makes $300+ million and is nominated for five Oscars features a scene where two married characters do Mommy/Daddy roleplay in their baby's nursery, and an actress (Margot Robbie) spreading her legs to show the camera her twat. Tons of people get rich off sexualizing little kids in beauty pageants, then act shocked when a pageant mom famous from a reality show (that the public made a hit in the first place) dates a convicted sex offender. Michael Jackson does a major network TV special holding hands and snuggling with a kid who later accuses him of molestation, and is not only acquitted, but the child and his family are hounded and harassed into oblivion. Meanwhile Jackson ODs and suddenly becomes a saint and his music is promoted in car commercials. The sight of a naked boob is forbidden, but turn into NBC any Wednesday night and see the characters on SVU explicit describe rape and child molestation.

    True sex abuse victims are many times ignored, attacked, disregarded and yet we're supposed to care about this shit.
    "Don't trust nobody, and 'nobody' meaning Jay Leno in particular." -Chris Rock

  8. #53
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^^
    while a lot of that is true, i think it's a lot more basic than that.

    kids aren't born knowing there's a difference between our genitals and any other part of our body. they don't understand the different social implications between touching someone's foot or touching their dick. what does a kid do when he's curious about something? they touch it.
    so when they first discover that girls and boys are different down there, they'll just go for it the way they would any other object or body part in front of them. as far as they're concerned, it's the same as someone's elbow.
    they don't know about sex and why you cover up your genitals - we even call them our privates - and that there are all these different social norms and attitudes toward it. you can't attach sexual or weird implications to this type of behaviour as they figure this stuff out.

    that's why there is nothing sexual - much less abusive - about this.
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  9. #54
    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    Yes, I agree, sput. To kids genitals are just parts of their bodies to be explored. Adults forget that and many have a vision that children are pure innocent angels until they hit age 18 are suddenly endowed with the urges and perfect understanding of sex.

    Some people created a Tumblr to talk about the weird shit they did as kids:
    Those Kinds of Girls

    Lots of people are sharing their stories about mutual exploration and how they learned about masturbation and how the other people's stories made them realize they weren't weird.

    Original passage edited out of The Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank (restored in 2012 edition):

    Until I was eleven or twelve, I didn’t realize there was a second set of labia on the inside, since you couldn’t see them. What’s even funnier is that I thought urine came out of the clitoris…When you’re standing up, all you see from the front is hair. Between your legs there are two soft, cushiony things, also covered with hair, which press together when you’re standing, so you can’t see what’s inside. They separate when you sit down and they’re very red and quite fleshy on the inside. In the upper part, between the outer labia, there’s a fold of skin that, on second thought, looks like a kind of blister. That’s the clitoris...There are little folds of skin all over the place, you can hardly find it. The little hole underneath is so terribly small that I simply can't imagine how a man can get in there, let alone how a whole baby can get out!
    Hey, remember that time Anne Frank wrote about trying to touch her friend's boobs?

    Once when I was spending the night at Jacque's, I could no longer restrain my curiosity about her body, which she'd always hidden from me and which I'd never seen. I asked her whether, as proof of our friendship, we could touch each other's breasts. Jacque refused. I also had a terrible desire to kiss her, which I did. Every time I see a female nude, such as the Venus in my art history book, I go into ecstasy. Sometimes I find them so exquisite I have to struggle to hold back my tears. If only I had a girlfriend!
    And masturbating next to her sleeping sister? I'm sure Anne Frank never did that either because we know that Lena Dunham invented rubbing one out when you're a horny teen and sharing a room and/or bed with a sibling.
    "Don't trust nobody, and 'nobody' meaning Jay Leno in particular." -Chris Rock

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ...
    kids aren't born knowing there's a difference between our genitals and any other part of our body. they don't understand the different social implications between touching someone's foot or touching their dick. what does a kid do when he's curious about something? they touch it.
    so when they first discover that girls and boys are different down there, they'll just go for it the way they would any other object or body part in front of them. as far as they're concerned, it's the same as someone's elbow.
    they don't know about sex and why you cover up your genitals - we even call them our privates - and that there are all these different social norms and attitudes toward it. you can't attach sexual or weird implications to this type of behaviour as they figure this stuff out.

    that's why there is nothing sexual - much less abusive - about this.
    i agree with you that what lena did is not abusive. but yeah, i do think it's strange since her sister was a toddler. not a peer.

    but the bolded part of what you wrote, while it is true that kids don't know much about their genitals, just that it feels good to touch it - after all, how many times have you seen a toddler with a hand in their undies?? it is a parent's job to socialize the kid and teach them that some touching is not appropriate. not that it is shameful or wrong, but what we tell our kids is that you don't touch anyones' private parts but your own, and if you touch your own, you do it when you are alone. so no shaming, but basically just teaching kids what is appropriate. so yeah, i think it's weird that lena did this when she was 7.

    jmho - i am not a clinical psych.
    Last edited by czb; November 5th, 2014 at 12:05 PM.
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  11. #56
    Elite Member InigoMontoya's Avatar
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    I think Truth Revolt is fucked up. From their site:

    "Time.com offers no commentary and poses no follow-up questions to the actress, though they do feature a photo of Dunham looking very somber and mature with natural brown hair and a professional jacket."

    Oh, OK, good to know natural brown and a professional jacket makes one reputable more than words or reason they say. I guess green is a little too far out of the box.

    I'd forgotten this instance until this thread -- when a day camp counselor, saw a girl leaning against the gym wall with her hand in her pants. This was my knee-jerk reaction: "Hey! What's happening? You know it is OK to touch yourself whenever and wherever you want to in private, but this isn't the right place." Knew her parents well and knew her well. Smart girl. Just a little socially inept; her parents were both so smart but very cerebral. When I told her Mom, she was glad I handled it like it happened. Gosh, I had forgotten about this until sput's reply, "kids do weird things."

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    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Ok, let's be honest about this shit. All children (ALL!!!) are curious about their little bodies and the bodies of their friends... When my Snowflake was 3 or 4 (I think it was 4), he was playing in his room with his female cousin (K) and a male cousin (B) - both of them are 2 years older than Snowflake. He comes giggling out of his room to me in the kitchen. I ask what he's giggling about and he says "K & B told me to kiss K's peepee and I DID!!!". The most important thing for me at that moment was NOT to freak out and act like they were little perverts or something. None of them thought they had done anything wrong. I called K & B's moms and they came to the house and we discussed it amongst ourselves. We didn't punish them ... oddly enough, the mother of my niece K was the one who freaked out the most. She interrogated her about her version of the story. Snowflake, B and K all said that both boys had kissed K's peepee but K's mom just hammered on her until she said that B didn't kiss her peepee after all. I thought it was more important to address the kids in a way that wouldn't scar them or make them think they did anything wrong. There was NOTHING sexual about it even if it did involve genitals... it was just human nature and curiosity. Kids at that age don't think "ooohhh, he just kissed my vagina... I love this and am really turned on"... that's NOT what kids think.
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    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Again, I have not read her actual statements so I can't have an opinion on that. Yes, it is normal and healthy for little kids to be curious and it has no basis in being sexual. In most cases, like Mel's example, it is consensual. In this case a one year old cannot consent. Do I beleieve the sister was emotionally damaged by this, NO! But I have seen cases where toddlers have been abused by older siblings with terrible outcomes.

    I read an article from Rolling Stone (For realz!!) where Lena was interviewed and she spoke about a lot of this then too, and her first exposure to sex. She does not fall into the bucket of social norms, but that doesn't make one a bad person.

    Lena Dunham: Girl on Top | Rolling Stone
    Dunham's parents first took her to a therapist when she was seven years old, and she's pretty much been seeing one ever since. At that point, she was terrified of going to sleep, which she associated with the void of death. "The whole house was taken hostage by my nightmare sleep rituals," Dunham recalls. "I remember one night my dad was so mad, he just had to take a walk around the block, and I was like, 'Daddy's never coming back!' and my mom was like, 'No, Daddy's annoyed because you're being a shitty asshole.'"

    Her parents (both successful artists her mother, Laurie Simmons, is a photographer best known for evocative pictures of dolls and dollhouses; her father, Carroll Dunham, is an oft-phallic pop-art painter) had to tell her three fun things they were going to do the next day. Her mother would have to kiss her eyes; her dad would have to adjust the door precisely. They'd have to promise her that they'd come get her at 3 a.m. and move her to their bed. "Then I'd get up to pee, like, three times," she says, "and they'd have to do it again each time I got back into bed. Then they'd come get me at 3 a.m., and I'd sleep at the foot of my parents' bed like a dog. So it was, like, get this kid into therapy."

    Dunham was soon diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder, which revved up around the age of nine. She went through a hypochondriacal phase: "AIDS, jaundice, you name it, I had it." Then she started counting. "I was obsessed with the number eight," she says. "I'd count eight times…. . . . I'd look on both sides of me eight times, I'd make sure nobody was following me down the street, I touched different parts of my bed before I went to sleep, I'd imagine a murder, and I'd imagine that same murder eight times."

    Dunham developed an intense dread of sex as soon as she learned what it was. From the evidence presented on Girls, it's unclear whether she's ever fully gotten over it. "I'd come up with a theory that I thought made a tremendous amount of sense," she says, "which was that you'd lay next to someone you loved, you wished for a baby, and then the sperm and the egg met through the pores of your skin. My friend Amanda was like, 'No, a man puts his penis in your vagina,' and I was like, 'This is the worst thing I've ever heard; this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me.' I told my little sister when she was five, so I wouldn't have to be alone with it. And now she's a lesbian. So there, we've nailed it! That and the fact that I used to make her make out with me through my grandmother's dialysis mask. No, that's not why someone's gay, but it's a funny theory."

    Her parents were not entirely surprised by any of this. "Lena was kind of a weirdo," says Simmons. "But I was used to weirdos. I was one, and all the artists I know were probably weirdos when they were kids too. The funny thing is when two artists expect to have a superconventional child."

    Simmons had grown up in suburban Long Island, where her own parents found her baffling. "That's a really awful feeling for a kid to think, that everything they dream up, their parents find peculiar," Simmons says. "So I just decided nothing was going to shake me up."

    In the throes of her number-eight obsession, Dunham put that ethos to the test. "I remember saying to my mom when I was little, 'I just had to imagine having sex with you eight times,'" she says, "and she really took it in stride! She was like, 'Well, it's your imagination; it didn't really happen.'"

    Dunham didn't have sex until college, though she did kiss a grand total of four guys in high school two of them during a very eventful "humanitarian" trip to Cuba. "Cuban guys were really aggressive," she says. "One put his tongue in my ear and it was exciting and traumatizing, and then as I was leaving, I was like, 'What if he was the love of my life and I left him in Cuba?' and my friends were like, 'He didn't speak English, he was maybe a street person…. . . . '"

    By high school, Dunham had gotten control of her OCD symptoms, but she was "drugged like a big horse" on massive doses of antidepressants. "I was so exhausted all the time, night sweats," she recalls. "I was pretty fat in high school if I look at it, because it just slows down your metabolism. My mom would always be like, 'I think you're having a lot of side effects,' and I'd be like, 'You're such a bitch; you just want me to be skinny!' and my mom was like, 'No, you're just sleeping all the time and sweaty.'" (There were some food issues, too until recently, Dunham would ask for hotels to remove the mini-bar so she wouldn't eat everything in it.)

    She weaned of meds toward the end of college, and has been frantically productive ever since. As of last March, though, she started taking a small dose of the anti-depressant Lexapro, just enough to dampen her anxiety. She keeps Klonopin in her bag, but she's afraid of it. "Don't ever Google a drug," she says, "because it's all psychos being like, 'This blinded me, it killed my husband.' I once flushed all my Klonopin down the toilet, because I was so scared by what I read. But if I feel I'm in the Tower of Terror, a little piece will just let me breathe."
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    God, she is so tiresome.
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    My SO had severe OCD as a child and it was almost exactly what Lena describes. She would flip out that she or her parents would die in the night. She used to go into their room and stand by her mom's side of the bed and stare at her like in a horror movie. Then her mom would wake up and take her back to bed and have to get into bed with her until she fell asleep. My SO also had elaborate nighttime rituals including having her dad sweep her room each night for demons. She also did counting rituals because in her mind, if she didn't, her dad would die. Panic over death of your loved ones and rituals to stop the supposed death are very common in OCD. I heard Lena on Howard Stern and she talked at length about having severe OCD.
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