Joanna Lumley [Patsy ... Ab Fab]: 'Being Patted On The Bottom Is Not Assault' ...

[Novice]

I would have stomped on the foot/head/cock of the guys who stroked my vagina (can't believe I had to type out that sentence), but they obviously knew I wouldn't be best pleased so they'd stroke it and walk right past, disappearing into the crowd. I think I worked out one guy who was doing it, but if it wasn't him and I went parading up to him asking him not to grope my vagina please and thanks and it ended up not being him, well what a knob I'd look.

Annnnd that is what they are counting on, including the guy who's arm I nearly broke (ok, so dislocated shoulder at worst but you get the picture), even with his wrist nearly at his neck he was denying that it was him!!!

[penname]

Although this may seem a fairly straightforward matter (touch/assault me and I claim the right to deck you), there are a gazillion variables that make it less so. As Kittylady says, if you’re on your own and vulnerable, while the patter/groper is with mates, is it always wise to react aggressively?

If you’re being groped by a drunken stranger on a train, that’s one thing. A hearty slap won’t usually cause more trouble than it solves. But what if it’s something more subtle, like if you’re at a party, dressed provocatively and have been drinking, and a guy you’re chatting to makes a clumsy physical pass: is that assault, or a misunderstanding - and is it worth getting sued yourself for assault? What if it’s a work party - how about if your boss, or your boss’s boss, puts his arm around your shoulders (and perhaps ‘misses’ your shoulder): is that being proprietorial or is it assault? Or an accident? What if it’s his wife who does it? Above all, when it happens, and you only have five seconds to respond, is it best to be confrontational or do nothing? And on the spur of the moment, are you sure you’re making the right call?

It’s easy to decide what you’d do when when you have time to think or when you’re just talking with pals (like on GR). And of course it’s easy to talk assertive/aggressive on a website. But in real life, on the spur of the moment, when it’s just a pat, it’s far less easy. I think most women are programmed to keep the peace, be pleasant and smiley; some are simply more timid (and/or naive) than others, and in Blighty, we’re also indoctrinated into not “making a fuss.” No wonder so many men take advantage of it. I’m musing here, but I think that sometimes those proprietorial bum pats, which are part condescension, part opportunistic, part affection, are often best treated with the same kind of grace that well-mannered people treat bad manners by anyone. After all, we're not talking rape or violent assault here, which is in a very different league. It doesn’t make the pat right, but when you’re put on the spot, and there’s the possibility of consequences - and mistakes - it’s a lot less hassle, trauma, stress and worry than a possible court case. But then I’m old enough to remember when nearly all men felt entitled to ‘pet’ you in one way or another. Like in Mad Men, but without anyone as fanciable as Don Draper. However unfair things still are, they're so much better now.

[MohandasKGanja]

When Mrs. Mohandas and I worked together, we had a mutual coworker who seemed like a nice guy. But apparently, when he would greet her (when I wasn't there), he would sort of grab her shoulder and lightly shake it, and say, "Hi (name)". She felt freaked out by it, like he was somehow getting off on it. So, the next time he did it, she shot up out of her chair and grabbed his shoulders with both hands and said, "Hi, Dean!!!" And shook him the same way. She said he looked like he was in shock, and that was the last time he ever tried anything.