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Thread: Jay Cutler And Wife Kristin Cavallari Come Out As Vaccine Truthers

  1. #76
    Elite Member *Kat*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    Why?
    Because there is literally no proof or study that these parents will believe that will change their minds on vaccination. Their belief is non-falsifiable. At best, they'll claim "We'll never know."

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  2. #77
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    1. i did not space out the vaccines, but i don't see a big problem with people who do.
    2. i didn't do attachment parenting, but don't really have an opinion if others do it - doesn't impact on my life.
    3. i don't care if people choose to opt out on some vaccines - for example, we did not do the entire hep series because frankly, we are not really at risk and did not see the point. aside from allergies or immuno-compromised people, not sure why someone would opt out of MMR or polio (for example).
    4. i don't get the analogy between vaccines and smoking (sorry mme V - you know i like you!). i can see a smoker and stay away from them. i won't let them smoke in my house. but unfortunately, i cannot tell the diff from a vaccinated kid and an unvaccinated one just by looking at them. if i could, then the analogy might make sense to me.
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    There are two reasons why there's been such an increase in autism diagnoses. One is that it used to be obscure and often mistaken or lumped in with other disorders. Doctors now know much more about it and can diagnose it much earlier. The second reason is that there's now an autism "spectrum." whereas 30-40 years ago when someone like Temple Grandin was diagnosed, it was because she had a severe and obvious case. Now a kid who is non-verbal and has major problems can be diagnosed as autistic just the same as a young kid with very minor problems, and both get counted in the statistics.

    IMO many of the vocal autism advocates have done a disservice by focusing so much on expanding the spectrum. A lot of kids "on the spectrum" IMO are just young kids who either have something else wrong (like OCD) or they have social or developmental problems which can be dealt with. Expanding the spectrum was done so that a lot of kids could have access to resources which is understandable, but a result is that a lot of true autistics can't get the help they need because resources are so stretched by other kids.
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  4. #79
    Elite Member Flygirl's Avatar
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    ^^or they realize, in my state's case, they will soon be eligible for 9,000 a year grants for private school tuition if their child is placed somewhere "on the spectrum." "Autistic" kids are coming out of the woodwork now.

    ETA: please don't flame me. I am in no way saying that autism is not real, just agreeing with NoNo that the spectrum might be a bit too expanded now. One of my nieces is autistic (kicked in suddenly at 24 months), and her parents can hardly stand to watch home movies of her as a young, expressive happy child because it is too painful to compare to the expressionless, uncommunicative person she is today.
    In her parents' case, I could almost understand their fear if they had chosen not to vaccinate their younger son (they did), and that is what makes these people promoting this so dangerous. When you look at your emotionless child who never speaks and someone is telling you (erroneously so) that YOU could have prevented that from happening, suddenly you cease to give a fuck about mumps, herd immunity, or measles. I thin k every parent feels this way, and it is why this fear mongering has got to stop.

    ETA again: please know that I'm not referring to people with valid reasons who have educated themselves on the matter. I'm referring to the group who choose not to vaccinate "because that lady on the View said not to."
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark View Post
    So wait? You've had an actual reaction to these shots (as opposed to a sore arm)? One that was worse than the diseases?

    I still don't understand the logic here. Other than a very real fear of something that is such a statistical improbability that I'm way more afraid for you getting one of these diseases.

    I have a friend who, after her 2nd child, will no longer vax her children. Her DD had a horrible reaction - she was developing normally until the MMR- she almost died & now lives with severe brain damage. Her mom then told her that when she was a baby she almost died from a vax.
    While unsure of what caused these terrible reactions, she did not vax her 3rd child.
    Sometimes the reaction could be worse than the actual disease. She counts on people who can, getting their vax so her children can hopefully not b exposed to these diseases.
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    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czb View Post
    1. i did not space out the vaccines, but i don't see a big problem with people who do.
    2. i didn't do attachment parenting, but don't really have an opinion if others do it - doesn't impact on my life.
    3. i don't care if people choose to opt out on some vaccines - for example, we did not do the entire hep series because frankly, we are not really at risk and did not see the point. aside from allergies or immuno-compromised people, not sure why someone would opt out of MMR or polio (for example).
    4. i don't get the analogy between vaccines and smoking (sorry mme V - you know i like you!). i can see a smoker and stay away from them. i won't let them smoke in my house. but unfortunately, i cannot tell the diff from a vaccinated kid and an unvaccinated one just by looking at them. if i could, then the analogy might make sense to me.
    People smoke in front of my child all of the time when we are out in public, it can cause him severe respiratory distress. It is their right to do this, so I try to avoid situations where he will be exposed to smoke, but it does happen. I wish no one smoked, it would make my life and his easier, but it is very legal where I live. Just walking down the street we come into contact with smoke every day. I won't let people smoke in my house. If I invited a friend with an unvaxed (or vaxed for that matter) child over I would hope they would tell me if they have had any (intentional *some people expose their kids to things such as chicken pox to get it out of the way*, or unintentional) known exposures recently (and yes I realize this is not fail-proof, as in the case of the child who had the nasal vaccine and was shedding all over us and anyone else), most of my friends understand our situation, but we do go out and about frequently and I worry about my child's reactive airway as much as exposure to anything else.
    Last edited by MmeVertigina; March 17th, 2014 at 01:03 AM.

  7. #82
    Elite Member dolem's Avatar
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    I read a while ago on NPR that there is a belief that one of the reasons people in my generation (late 20's to early 30's) will choose not to vaccinate their kids - other than the MMR/Autism scare is because we don't fully understand the diseases that our kids are being vaccinated against. No one that I grew up with had Measles or Mumps. I knew one adult that had Polio as a child (in the 50's) and obviously didn't see anyone actually suffering from these diseases. A whole generation of kids grew up not really understanding the severity of the diseases and now are making ill-informed decisions that are sometimes based out of fear of Autism. As we were getting into our early teens that bogus study linking to Autism to Vaccinations was all over the place. I remembering hearing about it as a kid. So, you have an entire generation of adults that never saw the effects of these diseases. They don't understand just how dangerous they truly are.

    When I had my son 5 years ago we questioned vaccinations - not that we wouldn't do them but that so many are given at once. Ultimately we chose to stick to the schedule, but we did some research and spoke to two pediatricians. Not everyone will do that and some will listen to the fear mongering out there and choose to not vaccinate their kids. It's too bad because some of those people who choose not to (not calling out anyone here) won't do their research are don't realize that they are putting immune compromised people, people with allergies, very young babies at risk by choosing to make that decision.

  8. #83
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    I think that you are right Dolem.
    In the UK there have been a couple of measels outbreaks & we've had an uptake (i believe) of teenage MMR shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark View Post
    So wait? You've had an actual reaction to these shots (as opposed to a sore arm)? One that was worse than the diseases?

    I still don't understand the logic here. Other than a very real fear of something that is such a statistical improbability that I'm way more afraid for you getting one of these diseases.
    It was more than "a sore arm", it was a fever, nausea, vomiting, rashes and a lump the size of a ping pong ball after each one that lasted nearly a week, and that was just after vaccinations, never mind the issues I've had with prescription meds. But I stuck with it and carried on because I wanted to be safe rather than sorry, particularly with the Hep vaccinations as I was often the only on site first aider in an organisation working with high risk individuals.

    I am NOT against vaccination at all; I wouldn't have had mine done if I was. I simply have a personal preference for staggered vaccinations because of my family history and the way that my reactions have been more severe than my mother's and how I have more allergies/intolerances than she does. Of course I would vaccinate any children that I was blessed with, but knowing what I know about my family I would rather deal with discomfort spread out over a period of time than a bigger, all in one whammy that might lead to the motherfucker of all massive reactions.
    Novice, mostroop, KrisNine and 1 others like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Nov, there's an expression 'your right to swing your fist ends at your neighbors face'. Its very applicable to people that don't vaccinate for bullshit reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Vaccination is a public health issue, not a personal choice. When personal choices pose a deadly threat to others, you lose the right to make that choice. That's the social compact.

    this.
    if you have legitimate medical reasons for not vaccinating your kid, of course you shouldn't.
    exemptions for 'personal beliefs' should simply not be permitted. i mean, frankly, if it were up to me i wouldn't even let people refuse to vaccinate their kids for religious reasons but that would never fly in the US but a lot of states allow parents to opt out of vaccinations for 'personal beliefs' and that is bullshit.
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  11. #86
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    I had my daughter vaccinated. She was invited to be part of a study at our local Children's Hospital for a different schedule and difference vax combos. We chose to participate as they did regular blood draws to determine the ongoing effectiveness of the vaccines by checking the antibodies in her blood. She never had any issues, thank goodness.

    I agree with Dolem about the complete ignorance of the repercussions of these illnesses. In Canada in the 50's, kids actually couldn't go outside in the summer because of the risk of getting polio. Kids under the age of 16 were banned from entering theatres and churches. Dr. Salk was called "the man who saved summer". Perhaps the people that choose to opt out of vaccines simply because they believe Jenny McCarthy rather than science (as opposed to people with legitimate reasons to not vax), could be shown what an iron lung looks like. Have their kid climb in there and see how they feel then.

    There was an outbreak of measles at a Christian School about 100 km from Vancouver just in the past few weeks. The attendees at that school choose not to vaccinate. It has now been carried over to a local polytechnic university, where a person from that community wrote exams, thus exposing a classroom of exam writers, who have now gone on to expose God knows how many people via public transit, their families, etc.
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    I need to say that since my son was diagnosed with Asperger's at the age of 13, I've had to educate myself on this issue. In no way did my son change after his vaccinations and I know that there is a history of Asperger's in my husband's family. Vaccinations didn't cause this problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    Kris - the increase in cases is due to them classing all Asperger cases into the autism category. Then every child who seems slightly different gets classified. It will swing back in about 20 years. I will never understand the need to put every person, from childhood on, into a category.
    I believe that Asperger's Syndrome does belong on the Autism Spectrum as the basic differences between someone I know who has severe autism, and my son who has Asperger's, comes down to the severity of most of the symptoms. My son was not diagnosed until 13 because I had to fight 8 long years to get the diagnosis. It's not over-diagnosed around here, that's for sure. Once my son was finally diagnosed, some additional help became available for my son that I was unable to access before this. It's not about giving him a label, it's about getting him help. As for the issue raised in the above article as to whether brainy young boys are being over-diagnosed due to some of their quirky characteristics-I believe this can happen. But let's not forget, one can be both profoundly gifted and have Asperger's as well. My son's IQ tested in the 99.9 percentile, but he still has Asperger's.
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    I have yet to read anything in this thread that would keep me from vaccinations. Especially the MMR.

    I actually had mumps as a baby. Got a titer done 4 yrs ago when I started the job I'm in now because I'd already had my MMR series. Since I'm in health care I take whatever they have to give me. I get it free of charge and right in my office at work. Given to me by a fellow coworker (not some nurse who's never given a shot before) which is always a plus.
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    I'll add my 2 cents into this even though I don't have children. But I wonder what I would do if I did.

    As long as a consumer cannot sue a vaccine maker if someone uses the product and has a serious adverse reaction - I don't think they should be mandated. The US Supreme Court decided this several years ago. Here is a brief interpretation of their decision in the case of Bruesewitz v. Wyeth:

    The Act specifically states that vaccine manufacturers are not liable for injuries and death that "result from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings."

    The Court pointed to the "even though" clause, basically saying that it lists the measures a manufacturer must take for injury to be considered unavoidable, thus limiting liability. So, as long as a vaccine maker manufactured the drug properly and included proper directions and warnings, it is not liable for anything--included vaccine defects related to design.


    Say you bring your child in for his first routine vaccines and they have a horrible neurological side effect from that vaccine. A side effect that causes a serious lifetime disability. You cannot sure the maker of the vaccine - by getting the vaccine - you have basically given your rights away and hold the company harmless. Meanwhile you have a brain damaged/paralyzed or other severely compromised child who is going to need care for the rest of his life. How is that child going to be taken care of? How can you force people to take a product and then if something goes wrong with that product they have no course of action. It is a dangerous place to be. Your government forces you to get vaccinated and if something goes wrong you're out of luck. And statistically - things will go wrong for some. Now you still may decide that it is worth taking the risk. But that should be YOUR educated choice, not the government's.
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    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quazar View Post
    I'll add my 2 cents into this even though I don't have children. But I wonder what I would do if I did.

    As long as a consumer cannot sue a vaccine maker if someone uses the product and has a serious adverse reaction - I don't think they should be mandated. The US Supreme Court decided this several years ago. Here is a brief interpretation of their decision in the case of Bruesewitz v. Wyeth:

    The Act specifically states that vaccine manufacturers are not liable for injuries and death that "result from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings."

    The Court pointed to the "even though" clause, basically saying that it lists the measures a manufacturer must take for injury to be considered unavoidable, thus limiting liability. So, as long as a vaccine maker manufactured the drug properly and included proper directions and warnings, it is not liable for anything--included vaccine defects related to design.


    Say you bring your child in for his first routine vaccines and they have a horrible neurological side effect from that vaccine. A side effect that causes a serious lifetime disability. You cannot sure the maker of the vaccine - by getting the vaccine - you have basically given your rights away and hold the company harmless. Meanwhile you have a brain damaged/paralyzed or other severely compromised child who is going to need care for the rest of his life. How is that child going to be taken care of? How can you force people to take a product and then if something goes wrong with that product they have no course of action. It is a dangerous place to be. Your government forces you to get vaccinated and if something goes wrong you're out of luck. And statistically - things will go wrong for some. Now you still may decide that it is worth taking the risk. But that should be YOUR educated choice, not the government's.
    Saw your post and here is a link for you, Quazar: Parents can't sue vaccine manufacturers - SFGate There is so much money tied up in this. ETA This link talks about the vaccine court. I posted this solely for Quazar and didn't want to clog up the feed with long articles, but it is an interesting read. Is there a way to turn off seeing a thread bumped, or do we have to use willpower and not click it? *runs off to go look at pictures of Michael Jackson's--I mean Kim K's--corpse impression...*
    Last edited by MmeVertigina; March 17th, 2014 at 02:04 PM.

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