Jay Cutler And Wife Kristin Cavallari Come Out As Vaccine Truthers

[Novice]

am wondering if this is.a modern version of natural selection?

Re: autism

names Priorix or MMR VaxPRO.
Does the MMR vaccine cause autism?
There has been some controversy about whether the MMR vaccine might cause autism, following a study published in 1998 by Dr Andrew Wakefield. In his paper published in The Lancet, Dr Wakefield claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism or bowel disease.
However, Andrew Wakefield's work has since been completely discredited and he has been struck off as a doctor in the UK. Subsequent studies during the last eight years have found no link between the MMR vaccine and autism or bowel disease

I have a different pov for you....
Having had cancer, my immune system isn't all it should be. A recent (sickness) virus in the office has knocked me off my feet for two weeks, when everyone else just gets a vomiting for 24 hours.
Because of this, imo, if you choose to not vaccinate your child and because of this I contract any of these diseases, be aware, because with I or my estate (should I note survive) ate going to come after you.

The websites are very clear that the recently inoculated are not able to contract the disease.

How common is measles?

The success of the MMR vaccine means that cases of measles are uncommon in the UK. However, the number of cases has risen in recent years and there have been some high-profile outbreaks.
For example, between November 2012 and July 2013 there was a measles outbreak in and around Swansea, during which more than 1,200 cases were reported.
It is thought that the rise in the number of cases of measles is largely due to parents not getting their child vaccinated with the MMR vaccine, probably due to speculation linking MMR to autism.
Publicity in 1998 highlighted a report claiming a link between the MMR jab and autism. However, numerous studies that were undertaken to investigate this claim found no link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

[Bellatheball]

There are some valid reasons for choosing to space out vaccines or to skip some all together. When I first brought my 2 month old to a well child check and found out she was going to get six vaccines at once, I panicked wondering if this was really smart. If parents have read the data, understand the (quality and reproducible) studies, and choose to opt out, fine. But to have this lingering stupidity about the MMR and autism is inexcusable. It would take one google search to understand the story behind that debacle. And it would take 5-8 minutes of reading to realize there was no validity to those claims. It's hard to take people like this seriously. (I'm looking at you dipshit, Jenny McCarthy.)

[SoCalMarie]

There are some valid reasons for choosing to space out vaccines or to skip some all together. When I first brought my 2 month old to a well child check and found out she was going to get six vaccines at once, I panicked wondering if this was really smart. If parents have read the data, understand the (quality and reproducible) studies, and choose to opt out, fine. But to have this lingering stupidity about the MMR and autism is inexcusable. It would take one google search to understand the story behind that debacle. And it would take 5-8 minutes of reading to realize there was no validity to those claims. It's hard to take people like this seriously. (I'm looking at you dipshit, Jenny McCarthy.)

Totally agree
I don't have children (yet), but you and I share the same point of view...

I totally understand a parent's right/decision to opt out of certain vaccines for their children, because that tells me those parents are ultimately focused of the health of their child/ren, and what's best for their child/ren at that time and in the future.

What I don't understand are the parents that make the decision to opt out of all the vaccines, citing their personal beliefs or because they're misinformed/unwilling to do a little research/take a couple minutes to ask their doctors some questions.
They put their ignorance over the health of their child/ren - and in the worst of cases, that effects others (outbreaks), and even more heartbreaking, they are willing to let their child/ren die. I just can't wrap my head around that. Arrrrg

[MmeVertigina]

What do you mean it doesn't work for you? Vaccines are not 100% effective. There will be a small percentage that will catch the disease anyway even if they are vaccinated. These people will be at risk from those from those who aren't vaccinated. Right now, majority of the population is vaccinated, hence the rarity of many potentially life threatening but preventable diseases. But the scale is already tipping, and those diseases won't be rare anymore. So I really don't buy this "personal choice" argument since it clearly effects people around you. If I had a kid that was immuno-compromised or allergic to vaccines, I better hope that he/she is around kids that were vaccinated.

Vaccinating using the current schedule suggested and using all of the vaccines suggested does not work for my family with our allergies and reactions. I do have a child who cannot have vaccines (amongst other medications) for reasons which I am not going to disclose here (and it did totally blow when we were subjected to the swine flu because of a friend's child who had the nasal vaccine and transmitted it to us, but that was their choice to vaccinate and bring that child out in public). I have other children who have been fully vaxed and some who have been partially vaxed. See my post on smoking in public, I really hate that and the effect that it has on my child with reactive airway.

I'm speaking about Dr 'Bob'. The one that made up the whole new vaccine schedule without any studies or other science to back it up. The attachment parenting pushing father doesn't bother me, because while I may think that its wacky it doesnt actually endanger anyone else.

You can stand by your beliefs, even if they're wrong, until those beliefs start killing other people. The fact that up thread you said 'if people vaccinate why are they afraid of those of us that don't' indicates that your beliefs aren't well informed, or you would get why.


When they announced that Dr Salk's polio vaccine worked they rang church bells and people wept in public. That's how relieved people were from the fear of polio epidemics. The success of vaccination is the only reason that people buy into this idiocy now. When enough people die this idiocy will vanish. It's a shame that's what it will take.

I liked the book for its suggestions on how to vax if you cannot follow a typical vax schedule, I also like it lists the different choices we have when choosing which strain to go with. Not all vaccines are created equally, even for the same prevention. Yes, I stand by my beliefs, I am well informed, I am involved in forums where this is debated regularly, I have heard all sides, and seen reactions to vaccines first hand.

My comment above was already elaborated on in previous posts (perhaps I should have asked: "why are the majority of people...", since the immuno compromised are not the majority, neither are the people who avoid vaccines because of autism, they are both the minority of the population. Also, this is assuming that vaccines work, in my experience some did not work for me (German Measles), *and if they don't work, one needs to ask oneself if the risk of injecting or digesting it out weighs the benefit*. Sometimes MMR lasts a bit over 20 years so many, many adults are not as vaxed as they think http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccina...wers.aspx#long, http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_d...ccination_last These responses are also food for thought: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...2214859AAHtWJo) .

This was my comment:

That is one thing I can't understand. If people vaccinate (The people who *do* vaccinate) why are they afraid of those of us who do not (If vaccines work) ? If the vaccines work, you are fully protected, no (Or are you? And was it worth it?)? Except for infants, who should not be exposed to large groups of people anyway. I was vaccinated against German measles, caught it twice anyway (as a young person and as an adult). There are other reasons beside autism to choose not to vaccinate, vaccines contain many ingredients which some of us are allergic to. You have to weigh the pros and cons for each vaccine and each person to figure out which decision is the better calculated risk, for you, personally. *backs slowly out of thread before someone with Hep. A or B spits in my eye.*

Until you have seen a reaction to a vaccine, it is hard to wrap your head around, reactions can also be life threatening and life changing. These are all personal choices and freedoms we have. Hence my "smoking" point. I think people can and do have very valid reasons for not vaccinating their children.

Btw I mentioned that we did use the polio vaccine a few pages back. We weigh the pros and cons and do what works best for our family. As an immuno compromised person would do what works best for them, or as a family with a history of reactions to vaccines will do what works best for them. It is a personal choice and we do what we can to be the most responsible with what we have been handed.

I am not one to tell someone that their choice is less valid than mine, if it is legal, they can make that choice even when it has a negative effect on my family.

Also, I had a terrible reaction to the HPV vaccine on the first shot. The last two, no reaction. But it did sway me to listen to the other people coming forward with complaints after having experienced what I did, but with longer lasting results.

I don't really have any more to add to this and it feels like a vaccine debate to me (instead of a light-hearted conversation or simple statement of personal opinions), which I don't want to engage in here (because it is exhausting, because I don't want to take the time to c&p a million links, and because this site is kind of a safe place for me (don't laugh)). There are plenty of other places to do this and a plethora of information available supporting both sides on the web. Best of luck with whatever personal choices are made, I hope they are the right ones and work for whatever the goal may be.

[KrisNine]

We went to Dr. Sears for a while. I like a lot of the things about his practice, but other things, not so much. I'm a 100% advocate of attachment parenting. I co-slept, wore and breastfed my daughter until the age of two and I didn't do the cry-it-out sleep training. Personally, I think it's a great way to go. Kids have been raised this way for thousands of years. If it doesn't work for others, that's fine. Not my family, not my decision.

As for the whole autism link to MMR or other vaccines, I see why parents are scared. I'm not saying they're right, but I understand the fear. The numbers are frightening. 30 years ago 1 in 10,000 kids, 5 years ago 1 in 150, today it's 1 in 88. Is it genetic? Environment? Mom's age? Dad's? Living too close to an airport/freeway/power station? Foods? Is it just plain over-diagnosed?

Again, I'm not saying they're right, it's just that they've latched onto an idea from a group that speaks the loudest.

[*Kat*]

It seems to me that this increase in autism cases could be because doctors are diagnosing it more frequently and getting better at identifying children with mild symptoms. Also, officials are getting better at counting the number of cases and more parents, doctors and health care professionals are reporting it. Better awareness, better reporting, better diagnosis and addition of milder forms of autism could be giving that scary statistic of 1 in 88. I could be wrong, but if the numbers stagnate from this point on, it could be attributed to the above reasons.

[KrisNine]

It seems to be that this increase in autism cases could be because doctors are diagnosing it more frequently and getting better at identifying children with mild symptoms. Also, officials are getting better at counting the number of cases and more parents, doctors and health care professionals are reporting it. Better awareness, better reporting, better diagnosis and addition of milder forms of autism could be giving that scary statistic of 1 in 88. I could be wrong, but if the numbers stagnate from this point on, it could be attributed to the above reasons.

I definitely think there is something to be said for the doctors getting better at diagnosing it or recognizing it. Same with the awareness, reporting, etc. But, I do wonder if it's not being over-diagnosed in children that seem to be on the very mild edges of this spectrum. I mean, if the spectrum is that broad, perhaps it's not all autism, but some other milder disabilities that need to be separated from the autism label. The increase just seems to be so large in a 35 year period. It just seems that there's either an over-diagnosis or something is really going on that needs to be addressed.

[*Kat*]

I definitely think there is something to be said for the doctors getting better at diagnosing it or recognizing it. Same with the awareness, reporting, etc. But, I do wonder if it's not being over-diagnosed in children that seem to be on the very mild edges of this spectrum. I mean, if the spectrum is that broad, perhaps it's not all autism, but some other milder disabilities that need to be separated from the autism label. The increase just seems to be so large in a 35 year period. It just seems that there's either an over-diagnosis or something is really going on that needs to be addressed.

I agree that we could add over diagnosis to the list of reasons. Or like you said, there could be a serious underlying problem that needs to be investigated. Anyway, here's an interesting article I found about the over diagnosis of autism due to defining it as a spectrum disorder.

That’s not autism: It’s simply a brainy, introverted boy - Salon.com

Here's an excerpt.

"There are other reasons why a sizable percentage of toddlers get erroneously diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. Up to one in five two-year-olds are late talkers. They fall below the fifty-word expressive-vocabulary threshold and appear incapable of stringing together two- and three-word phrases. This sort of irregular language development is one of the hallmarks of early autism. Yet it is notoriously difficult to distinguish between toddlers with autism spectrum disorder and those who are afflicted with delayed language development. The situation is further complicated by the fact that toddlers with delayed language development tend to share other features in common with autism spectrum children. Scientific findings at the famed Yale Child Study Center have shown that toddlers with delayed language development are almost identical to their autism spectrum disordered counterparts in their use of eye contact to gauge social interactions, the range of sounds and words they produce, and the emotional give-and-take they are capable of. Consequently, many toddlers who simply don’t meet standard benchmarks for how quickly language should be acquired and social interactions mastered are in the autism red zone.


Expanding autistic phenomena to include picky eating and tantrums only amounts to more confusion when applied to toddlers. The percentage of young children in the United States with poor appetites and picky eating habits is so high that experts writing in the journal Pediatrics in 2007 commented, “It could reasonably be said that eating-behavior problems are a normal feature of toddler life.” Tantrums also are surprisingly frequent and intense during the toddler years. Dr. Gina Mireault, a behavioral sciences professor at Johnson State College in Vermont, studied children from three separate local preschools. She discerned that toddlers had tantrums, on average, once every few days. Almost a third of the parents surveyed considered their child’s tantrum behavior to be distressing or disturbing.


With the push to screen for and detect autism spectrum disorder at progressively younger ages, the risk is greater that late-talking, picky-eating, tantrum-throwing, transition-resistant toddlers will be misperceived as potentially autistic—especially if an evaluation is conducted in which the child is not sensitively engaged and put at ease. The risk is more acute, as I will soon illustrate, if this toddler is likely to develop into an introverted, cognitively gifted boy who tends to be single-minded and willful in his approach to life learning. Even more basic than that, if we don’t have a firm grasp of gender differences in how young children communicate and socialize, we can mistake traditional masculine behavior for high-functioning autism."

[Novice]

There are some valid reasons for choosing to space out vaccines or to skip some all together. When I first brought my 2 month old to a well child check and found out she was going to get six vaccines at once, I panicked wondering if this was really smart. If parents have read the data, understand the (quality and reproducible) studies, and choose to opt out, fine. But to have this lingering stupidity about the MMR and autism is inexcusable. It would take one google search to understand the story behind that debacle. And it would take 5-8 minutes of reading to realize there was no validity to those claims. It's hard to take people like this seriously. (I'm looking at you dipshit, Jenny McCarthy.)

I/we had already made the decision to space out the vaccines if/when we had kids, I can't understand why more middle-class parents do that instead of opting out entirely.

We went to Dr. Sears for a while. I like a lot of the things about his practice, but other things, not so much. I'm a 100% advocate of attachment parenting. I co-slept, wore and breastfed my daughter until the age of two and I didn't do the cry-it-out sleep training. Personally, I think it's a great way to go. Kids have been raised this way for thousands of years. If it doesn't work for others, that's fine. Not my family, not my decision.

As for the whole autism link to MMR or other vaccines, I see why parents are scared. I'm not saying they're right, but I understand the fear. The numbers are frightening. 30 years ago 1 in 10,000 kids, 5 years ago 1 in 150, today it's 1 in 88. Is it genetic? Environment? Mom's age? Dad's? Living too close to an airport/freeway/power station? Foods? Is it just plain over-diagnosed?

Again, I'm not saying they're right, it's just that they've latched onto an idea from a group that speaks the loudest.

While I agree 100% with the (bolded) statement, it becomes *my* problem when it effects me & my health.
I'm only sore about this because of my employers current sick policy which has contributed to me getting very sick when I have other stuff going on.


MmeV - I understand what you are.saying I wasn't directing my comments obliquely or otherwise at you, or at least wasn't intending to!

[witchcurlgirl]

Nov, there's an expression 'your right to swing your fist ends at your neighbors face'. Its very applicable to people that don't vaccinate for bullshit reasons.

There are some valid reasons for choosing to space out vaccines or to skip some all together. When I first brought my 2 month old to a well child check and found out she was going to get six vaccines at once, I panicked wondering if this was really smart. If parents have read the data, understand the (quality and reproducible) studies, and choose to opt out, fine. But to have this lingering stupidity about the MMR and autism is inexcusable. It would take one google search to understand the story behind that debacle. And it would take 5-8 minutes of reading to realize there was no validity to those claims. It's hard to take people like this seriously. (I'm looking at you dipshit, Jenny McCarthy.)

I will never understand how people continue to believe in something that was proven to be false. In the case of mmr/autism, it was not only a false study, but Dr Wakefield was paid to make those claims.




As for the claims people make about vaccines not working, they aren't presented as having a 100% effictiveness rate in any legitimate scientific literature. And they dont have to be 100% effective to work in the population as a whole.

There are already places here in the US where the percentages of people vaccinated have dipped below the percentages needed to have herd immunity. And for people living in those areas who legitimately cannot be vaccinated that's quite dangerous.

Vaccination is a public health issue, not a personal choice. When personal choices pose a deadly threat to others, you lose the right to make that choice. That's the social compact.

[coolios5o]

Antivaccination Parents Dig In Heels Even after Receiving Medical Info - Scientific American

Just read this study awhile ago. Obviously there is no point even debating about the case..

[sluce]

Kris - the increase in cases is due to them classing all Asperger cases into the autism category. Then every child who seems slightly different gets classified. It will swing back in about 20 years. I will never understand the need to put every person, from childhood on, into a category.

[KrisNine]

I agree that we could add over diagnosis to the list of reasons. Or like you said, there could be a serious underlying problem that needs to be investigated. Anyway, here's an interesting article I found about the over diagnosis of autism due to defining it as a spectrum disorder.

That’s not autism: It’s simply a brainy, introverted boy - Salon.com

Here's an excerpt.

Wow, Kat. That's quite interesting. Makes a lot of sense and maybe that's what's happening to a degree.

I/we had already made the decision to space out the vaccines if/when we had kids, I can't understand why more middle-class parents do that instead of opting out entirely.

While I agree 100% with the (bolded) statement, it becomes *my* problem when it effects me & my health.
I'm only sore about this because of my employers current sick policy which has contributed to me getting very sick when I have other stuff going on.


MmeV - I understand what you are.saying I wasn't directing my comments obliquely or otherwise at you, or at least wasn't intending to!

I agree, Nov. I was more speaking to the co-sleeping/baby wearing aspect and not the anti-vaccination side. I do agree that it puts people at risk. Especially people with compromised immune systems, people who can't be vaccinated and kids who aren't old enough.

Last night, they did a report on the news here and said that there were four cases of measles in December of 2013. Two of the four were in people that had been vaccinated. So, I'm wondering if it was older people who were vaccinated years ago or young kids who were recently vaccinated? Also, I know the MMR requires more than 1 dose to be completely effective.

As a parent that spaces out the vacs, you also rely on people to have older kids fully immunized. For me, I intend for my daughter to be fully vaccinated by school age. As it stands now, she has 19 out of the 24 or 25 vaccinations she's supposed to have.

Kris - the increase in cases is due to them classing all Asperger cases into the autism category. Then every child who seems slightly different gets classified. It will swing back in about 20 years. I will never understand the need to put every person, from childhood on, into a category.

Oh, okay. I thought I read somewhere that kids with Aspergers were losing the "Aspergers" diagnosis and just being given the Autism diagnosis. I'm not a medical expert, but they seem to be really different things to me.

[McJag]

Kris,if you are really worried buy organic milk and above all potatoes. Organic potatos have almost none. Regular potatoes are loaded with insecticides, you can't wash all of it off.
So,what do most kids love most? French fries from McDonalds. That is scary. Vaccines are not.

[Novice]

Antivaccination Parents Dig In Heels Even after Receiving Medical Info - Scientific American

Just read this study awhile ago. Obviously there is no point even debating about the case..

Why?