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Thread: Harry Connick Jr.'s Teen Daughter Arrested

  1. #16
    Elite Member NickiDrea's Avatar
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    Allegedly the drinking age is 21 because back in the 60's or 70's, when the voting age was lowered to 18, several states also lowered their legal drinking age to 18/19. The number of alcohol-related accidents involving that age group skyrocketed, which led the Feds to create legislation forcing states to raise their drinking age or lose federal funding.

    I remember one of our teachers telling us a story in high school about remembering when the drinking age was lowered- a couple of students at our school were killed in alcohol-related accidents right after that. Our teacher said she and her colleagues had always been in favor of a lower drinking age (because of the whole "you can go off to war but can't have a drink before you go" argument, but when kids started dying, many teachers changed their minds about it.
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  2. #17
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    There are recent studies that show raising the age did not decrease drunk driving incidents. Deaths decreased but studies connect that as much to airbags and seat belt laws.

    Pennsylvania was 21 when I was young, but Maryland was 18, Jersey was 19, and Delaware was 20. We just went state to state since all were a hop skip and a jump away.
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  3. #18
    Elite Member Bellatheball's Avatar
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    H
    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    That happens here all the time. I could lose my license, and government contracts, so I had a hard fast rule that there was no underage drinking on my property. I hate when the local cops do bust a party and the kids are charged with underage drinking. Then mommy and daddy pay for an attorney, they go to court, the judge changes the charge to disorderly conduct, orders community service (16-20 hours) and a small fine, and agrees to expunge the record once community service is completed. Then they call the local probation office that handles community service and ask what "specials" are running. The specials are usually things like come and clean the courthouse on a government holiday (Columbus Day, Election Day) and get double credit. Or, buy $100 worth of tools and donate them to a local charity like Habitat, and get credit for 10 hours per $100 spent.

    I believe the drinking age should be 18, and clearly so do local judges who do not take it seriously. However, this is yet another example of white privilege. The kids in this area have parents who will happily pay the attorney, fines, and buy the community service to make sure Jrs record stays clear. The kids in lower income areas do not have that same opportunity and the charge stays on their record forever. Judges in the districts courts in wealthy areas also give very different sentences than those in lower income areas.
    Realizing I'm in the minority on this (and a lot of other things!), if my kid hosted a party and underage drinking was involved/cops called etc, I'd make them face the consequences. People may not agree with the drinking age but it is the law. Parents do their kids no favors by teaching them laws are t applicable to them.
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  4. #19
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    can't you teach them a lesson without it involving your kids getting a permanent record that will fuck up their future, all to make a point?
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  5. #20
    Elite Member kasippu's Avatar
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    I just googled the drinking age in my birth country:16 for beer and wine, 18 for stronger drinks, I never drank when I was 16 nor frequently at 18, neither did most of my friends and we did go to (youth)bars. You could buy beers there but most of us had a soft drink, we would hang out and talk about shool, ect.

    Also there is no 'finally I can drink so lets get drunk attitude'. Maybe the 'forbidden' fruit taste sweeter?

  6. #21
    Elite Member Bellatheball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    can't you teach them a lesson without it involving your kids getting a permanent record that will fuck up their future, all to make a point?
    You missed my point entirely. We teach our kids right from wrong. We also teach them if they chose to break laws or rules, there will be consequences. What is so confusing about that?

  7. #22
    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    Cops breaking up parties is a time honored tradition - they just didn't use to arrest people. I don't get why everything is such a hard line these days.
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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellatheball View Post
    You missed my point entirely. We teach our kids right from wrong. We also teach them if they chose to break laws or rules, there will be consequences. What is so confusing about that?
    it's not confusing at all i just think making your kids face consequences shouldn't involve ending up with a permanent record that will fuck up their futures, all for a pretty minor mistake that doesn't deserve such strict punishment. do you really think it's fair for a kid to have a permanent criminal record because they threw a party and underage kids were drinking and the cops were called? i know it's the law but sometimes the law is stupid. it used to be the law that blacks and whites couldn't marry either. also, you can't play dominoes on sunday in alabama. it's the law.
    Last edited by sputnik; August 21st, 2015 at 01:20 PM.
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    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it's not confusing at all i just think making your kids face consequences should involve ending up with a permanent record that will fuck up their futures, all for a pretty minor mistake that doesn't deserve such strict punishment. do you really think it's fair for a kid to have a permanent criminal record because they threw a party and underage kids were drinking and the cops were called? i know it's the law but sometimes the law is stupid. it used to be the law that blacks and whites couldn't marry either. also, you can't play dominoes on sunday in alabama. it's the law.

    I agree. Something like this should be dealt with within the family and the home. Save the police for a time when it really counts, not when someone has a few beers under the (IMHO ridiculous) age limit of 21.
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  10. #25
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    I agree with both of you. Bella is correct that we should let our kids learn lessons, even when they are difficult, and not bail them out all the time. But, like Sput points out, this lesson is lifelong. I always told my daughter she would have to face the consequences of her actions if she was caught. In reality, if she had been caught, she would never be able to teach with that on her record. I probably would have gotten her an attorney and made sure it would not be on her record. I would have made her work to pay me back for the legal fees and fines, and I would have made her do the community service. If she had been caught drinking and driving I would not help her at all.
    Last edited by sluce; August 21st, 2015 at 04:42 PM.
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    Elite Member Bellatheball's Avatar
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    And we wonder why there is such entitlement in our youth. I teach my kids right from wrong and expect they learn what it means to face consequences with the small stuff so they don't falter when it comes to the big stuff. Laws apply to everyone. If you don't like them, work to change them. Teaching kids they can follow the laws they agree with and ignore the rest is ridiculous in my own opinion.

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    Elite Member SHELLEE's Avatar
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    Unfortunately working to change laws that are ridiculous doesn't always work.
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    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it's not confusing at all i just think making your kids face consequences shouldn't involve ending up with a permanent record that will fuck up their futures, all for a pretty minor mistake that doesn't deserve such strict punishment. do you really think it's fair for a kid to have a permanent criminal record because they threw a party and underage kids were drinking and the cops were called? i know it's the law but sometimes the law is stupid. it used to be the law that blacks and whites couldn't marry either. also, you can't play dominoes on sunday in alabama. it's the law.
    Exactly. Allowing your children to face reasonable consequences makes sense. In this case, the consequences would be way out of proportion to the offense. I would do everything I could to make sure my child's future wasn't screwed up because of something like this, which was illegal but not immoral. No one deserves to lose future employment opportunities over something like this.

    Also, I don't believe in teaching blind obedience to authority, which is essentially what you are doing when you throw your child to the law wolves without so much as hiring a good lawyer, even when they could face unreasonable consequences, simply because the law is the law and that's that.
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  14. #29
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellatheball View Post
    And we wonder why there is such entitlement in our youth. I teach my kids right from wrong and expect they learn what it means to face consequences with the small stuff so they don't falter when it comes to the big stuff. Laws apply to everyone. If you don't like them, work to change them. Teaching kids they can follow the laws they agree with and ignore the rest is ridiculous in my own opinion.
    Bella - you're missing a point here - the law is the law - only for some. The law changes based on your socioeconomic status. If you can afford a lawyer "the law" changes and the charges are no longer violations that will follow you for life and ruin your life. No one here has said we should teach kids to ignore laws they disagree with. The conversation is about how you use the legal system based on your ability. The kids who do know how to operate the system are marked for life, and do not get the same opportunities as others, because they drank a beer at a party between the age of 18-20. That's ridiculous. If you get caught under 18, it is a juvenile charge and doesn't show on your record in a background check.

    It's also very easy to sit and judge others when our kids are young. You can teach them right from wrong til the cows come home, but when they are at a party and someone hands them a beer, your version of right and wrong may not count anymore. Life changes when they get older and we are faced with reality. I hope none of your kids drink, or get caught, or do anything else stupid that will mess up their lives. If they do, be prepared to shift your way of thinking when you are trying to help your child. I got lucky and didn't have to deal with it, but I watched others make the decisions for their kids. I do not agree with paying their way out completely, but I will not judge any of them for getting charges changed to a lesser charge and ensuring it will be expunged. The legal system allows pleas and negotiations for a reason.
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  15. #30
    Elite Member Bellatheball's Avatar
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    We are making the same point. I think people entitle their kids when they show them the law goes away when enough money is thrown around. We can agree to disagree about the firmness of our convictions when it comes to our children.

    I don't very often disagree with you but the point you make about me not having the perspective to make the statement I made is condescending (even if done politely).
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