Page 38 of 50 FirstFirst ... 2834353637383940414248 ... LastLast
Results 556 to 570 of 738
Like Tree1141Likes

Thread: "Foxy Knoxy" Amanda Knox gets $4m book deal from HarperCollins

  1. #556
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    58,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rollo View Post
    A young girl alone in a foreign country getting her throat slit and taking two hours to die is undoubtedly worse.
    so because kercher had it worse it makes it ok to falsely accuse, convict and imprison someone? of course knox was out to save her own skin, or should she have stayed in jail and put up with it because, hey, it's not as bad as having your throat slit and taking two hours to die?
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  2. #557
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Your inner ear
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rollo View Post
    Well three people have been convicted once and two of those people have been convicted twice. I don't see how picking over such evidence as you can glean from the two court cases, given that the deliberations of the judges were private, is going to provide a definitive answer.
    I can see your point and understand that you feel passionately about this. However, for those of us who feel that the convictions were not supported by the evidence there it is still an open case in many respects. I don't think that we will get definitive answers by speculating, no, but it does help make sense of things by sharing/hearing different theories which make more sense than what the prosecution came up with. The prosecution's theories sound like nonsense to me, just as Amanda's reactions sound like nonsense to people who feel she is guilty.

  3. #558
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Back of Beyond
    Posts
    11,081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    so because kercher had it worse it makes it ok to falsely accuse, convict and imprison someone? of course knox was out to save her own skin, or should she have stayed in jail and put up with it because, hey, it's not as bad as having your throat slit and taking two hours to die?
    rollo can correct me if I am wrong but I think her comment was meant to point out that people are identifying more with the accused/convicted in this case than they ever have with the victim.
    nana51 and garysgirl1999 like this.

  4. #559
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Top Secret Spy for Leann Rimes
    Posts
    37,383

    Default

    The victim has been laid to rest and we want justice for her. The case has not been laid to rest and we want justice served fairly for the accused. It is sad that you perceive people wanting fairness for the accused as meaning they don't care about the victim.
    You don't engage with crazies. Because they're, you know, fucking crazy. - WitchCurlGirl

  5. #560
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    58,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    rollo can correct me if I am wrong but I think her comment was meant to point out that people are identifying more with the accused/convicted in this case than they ever have with the victim.
    sluce said it better than i did above but i just want to add, it's not that people are identifying with the accused, it's that it's natural that people are going to talk about the accused because they're the ones on trial for the case. what more is there left to say about kercher? she's dead. and yes, of course people want justice to be served but 'justice' doesn't mean the italians going after sollecito and knox again and again because the court of popular opinion thinks they are guilty and the italians want to keep trying until a conviction sticks. 'justice' doesn't mean finally nailing knox because that's the only way kercher's family will have closure because they've decided she's guilty even though there is no definitive proof. 'justice' doesn't mean knox is a killer because, hey, she's a bitch in real life and unlikeable so that means she must be guilty. come the fuck on.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  6. #561
    Gold Member nana51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    in Sunny San Diego
    Posts
    1,308

    Default

    We aren't over there in Italy so don't know all the ins and outs. I think many people assume because it isn't United States she is being railroaded.
    Oh, I offended you with my opinion? You should hear the ones I keep to myself.

  7. #562
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    58,131

    Default

    ^^^^
    trust me, i've been in italy enough and know enough italians to know that italy is a fucking disaster and their justice system is pretty much a joke, especially for a country that's an EU member. the levels of ineptitude and corruption are well known.
    BelledeJour and kasippu like this.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  8. #563
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,578

    Default

    I would feel the same way even the situation were reversed and Amanda had been the victim/Meredith the suspect. I absolutely believe she's being railroaded, to cover for the police's incompetence and to appease the victim's family, who have been very vocal about the fact that they believe she's guilty. I don't feel this way because she's American, but because there is insufficient evidence to indicate that she did this - and very substantial evidence indicating that someone else did it.

  9. #564
    Elite Member NickiDrea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    2,734

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nana51 View Post
    We aren't over there in Italy so don't know all the ins and outs. I think many people assume because it isn't United States she is being railroaded.
    I wouldn't say she's being railroaded, though maybe she is, I just think that she is being denied Due Process. Of course, that is a US term and is defined by our standards, but a fair trial is a fair trial and she hasn't gotten one as far as I can tell. I think the original prosecution theory was ridiculous. Now, I don't know if she did it or not- it's possible she knows more than what she is saying- but I do know that's there is reasonable doubt all over the case, at least the case as was presented by the Italian prosecution. And trying her 50 million times still wouldn't change the act that the prosecution's case is a hot mess.

    It's unfortunate that this situation has turned into The Amanda Show and that Meredith's death has been totally overshadowed, but that often happens in lurid, media attention-grabbing cases like this one.
    DirtyGossip01 likes this.
    "Thankfully I'm an educated multi-millionaire who knows better than to speak to perverted unjust cops without my lawyer. "
    "I think she's psychotic...what do I do?" - Jenny Schecter

  10. #565
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Top Secret Spy for Leann Rimes
    Posts
    37,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^^^
    trust me, i've been in italy enough and know enough italians to know that italy is a fucking disaster and their justice system is pretty much a joke, especially for a country that's an EU member. the levels of ineptitude and corruption are well known.
    I read and article the other night about all the problems in the Italian legal system. It was focused on Berlusconi, not Knox. Here is an excerpt. Analysis: Berlusconi's fate highlights problems in Italy's judicial system | Reuters

    Whether or not you buy Berlusconi's line, there is widespread agreement that Italy's judicial system is a mess.

    The system is notoriously Byzantine and subject to huge delays for both criminal and civil cases, the latter seen as a significant disincentive to foreign investment.

    There is a backlog of about 9 million cases. A civil case takes on average more than seven years to settle and a criminal case five. Even minor offences like falsifying a bus ticket or driving without a license are eligible for two appeals.
    You don't engage with crazies. Because they're, you know, fucking crazy. - WitchCurlGirl

  11. #566
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Tarheel state
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MmeVertigina View Post
    Than being falsely accused? Of course, no one is arguing that it isn't. The only justice for the victim's family can be in finding a solid truth.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this. While the Kercher family may never recover from the loss of their daughter, they cannot benefit from falsely accusing two people who cannot be connected to the crime by supporting DNA evidence. I believe the right person is in jail. The rest of the story may never be known, but I have serious doubts that Knox and Sollecito had anything to do with the crime. The Italian judicial system and the judge and prosecutor, all have questionable histories of 'scapegoating' in order to nicely tie up loose ends with defendants who were clearly innocent. I truly feel for the Kercher family, but convicting innocent parties will not salve their pain.
    Last edited by DirtyGossip01; February 3rd, 2014 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Spelling fail.

  12. #567
    Elite Member *Kat*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,311

    Default

    I ventured into this thread today and read all 38 pages. I won't claim Amanda's innocence(or guilt). I don't give a fuck about how weird she acts during interviews or that she's written a book. Based on everything I've read so far, I'll say that there wasn't enough evidence to convict her.

    The Italian Justice System Is Insane—Amanda Knox Is Completely Innocent

    By Jim Edwards
    Amanda Knox in 2011. Photo by ALBERTO PIZZOLI/AFP/Getty Images

    This post originally appeared in Business Insider.



    Most people know that Amanda Knox—"Foxy Knoxy"—is the pretty American student who was arrested and found guilty of the stabbing death of her British roommate in Italy, during a "sex game" gone wrong, when the pair were on study-abroad programs several years ago.

    Unfortunately, a far smaller number of people know that Knox was probably completely innocent of the crime; that another man was successfully convicted of the murder; and that NONE of the evidence—blood, DNA, or witnesses—ever really pointed to Knox.

    Here's a primer on the Knox case, and the miscarriage of justice at the heart of it.

    Knox was initially convicted. Confusingly, the verdict was overturned by an Italian appeals court and then, a higher Italian court overturned that acquittal and asked that the case be heard again at the trial level. Thursday, Knox was found guilty again. She may choose to appeal the verdict.

    This, of course, would never happen in a U.S. court, where the Constitution forbids suspects from being repeatedly retried.

    Top Comment
    I am not an expert in US, Italian or international law, nor am I privy to the full range of evidence or argument in this case, nonetheless, here is my opinion . . . More...
    -harpedonaptae
    1.1k Join In

    The frustration for followers of the case—and Knox herself, of course—is that most people have a vague sense that she was Meredith Kercher's killer, and that somehow—on a technicality!—she wriggled free.

    It's important to understand that when Knox went to Perugia to study, she was just 20 years old. Like a lot of kids in college, she experimented with marijuana, booze, and boys. She didn't feel the need to apologize or hide the fact.

    This part of the Knox story—that she was a pretty, unapologetic party girl—seems to have worked against Knox from the start, even though it has nothing to do with the case.

    Kercher's killer is actually Rudy Guede, an itinerant African immigrant.

    Guede found Kercher's body in the house she shared with Knox (even though he didn't live there). His fingerprints were found at the scene. He admitted being there prior to the killing (and using the toilet). And one of his palm prints was found in a blood stain underneath Kercher's body.

    He then fled town, and had to be extradited back to Italy from Germany to stand trial. He's serving 16 years.

    In the excellent book on the case, "The Fatal Gift of Beauty; The Trials of Amanda Knox," author Nina Burleigh describes Guede's history with the law: He was previously arrested for housebreaking, and on one occasion stole a knife (Kercher was stabbed).

    The baffling part of the book (which is sourced at a level of detail that's almost excruciating) is, why Knox was prosecuted in the first place.

    The answer is that the Italian prosecutor in charge of the case was an obsessed weirdo who was convicted of corruption.


    Giuliano Mignini had previously prosecuted the "Monster of Florence" serial killer case and became convinced that it was a masonic conspiracy. His case came to nothing. Mignini was later convicted of illegally tapping the phones of various police and reporters connected to the Florence case, and was given a 16-month suspended sentence.

    Somehow, he was allowed to be in charge of the Kercher murder, and he screwed that up too. The alleged ritualistic sex game, for instance, turned out to be manufactured from whole cloth.

    There was no evidence indicating Knox killed Kercher:


    • No DNA evidence linked Knox to the crime, even though she lived in the same house as Kercher.
    • The forensic evidence that did exist was mishandled by Italian authorities prior to trial. (Kercher's bra clasp was left on the floor of the crime scene for six weeks before blood evidence was found on it.)
    • A bloody knife print didn't match the knife police had in custody, so Mignini's team had to create a theory involving two knives, Burleigh reports.
    • One of Mignini's witnesses against Knox was Antonio Curalato, a homeless anarchist who slept on a bench near Knox's house. He testified on who was near the house that night, and he also remembered seeing a party bus on the night of the killing. Burleigh's book shows that that bus was not scheduled to run on the night of Kercher's death.
    • Curalato turned out to be a serial witness and heroin addict whom the police had persuaded to testify in two other murder cases.


    It's not just that Knox was falsely accused. It's that her entire life was ruined in the process, in the most vindictive and sexist way possible. At one point, Burleigh reveals, a police official posing as a doctor informed Knox she had HIV, and asked her to name all her previous sexual partners so they could be alerted to the risk. She did so, and only found out later that it was a trick—the Italian cops just wanted to know about her sex life. (Her boyfriend at the time, Raffaele Sollecito, was also eventually acquitted of aiding in Kercher's murder.)

    Knox was guilty of two things:

    She did falsely accuse Patrick Lumumba, a bar owner, of being involved in the crime. She was convicted of that libel and sentenced to time served (three of the four years she spent behind bars).

    She was also guilty of being young and naive. Burleigh's book paints a picture anyone who has ever been 20 years old and away from home for the first time will recognize: a girl enjoying herself, taking risks, being a bit of a jerk by all accounts, and not really understanding—or caring—how the perceptions of older adults might play against her.

    She was convicted in part because the Lumumba accusation made her look guilty; because she failed to act sad enough; and because the Italian authorities and jury had sexist views of her behavior.

    Few Americans regard the Knox case as a feminist issue, or Knox as a victim of discrimination. (She served four years in prison for having a sex life, basically). They should reconsider.

    Why Amanda Knox is innocent.

  13. #568
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Your inner ear
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    and because the Italian authorities and jury had sexist views of her behavior.
    This. So true and so obvious.

    This article tells a bit more about Rudy Guede and some of his history with being mentally unstable.
    Editor's note: Nina Burleigh is an investigative journalist and author. Her last book is "The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Italian Trials of Amanda Knox."
    (CNN) -- When Amanda Knox was convicted again on Thursday, Americans reacted with bafflement. The appeal was the third round through Italy's grinding, multi-level legal system, with its numerous checks and balances. But the saga is also confusing because, while the crime is simple, the case built around it is a grand spectacle combining aspects of national pride, sexist archetypes and race.Knox and her co-defendant, Raffaele Sollecito, were first convicted by a jury in 2009 for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher in 2007. An appellate judge overturned the conviction in 2011 and Knox returned to the United States after four years in jail. The prosecutor then appealed the acquittal to the Italian Supreme Court, which sent the case to the new appellate panel that reinstated the conviction.It isn't over yet. The defendants will now appeal and the case eventually could be returned to another appellate panel for yet another review.Nina Burleigh


    I spent two years researching and writing a book about the Knox case, living in Perugia, attending the trial, interviewing every lawyer involved in the case, reviewing thousands of pages of police documents and court transcripts, interviewing forensic police, coroners, the principles of the case, their family members and associates.Americans like me who believe the case against Knox and her then-boyfriend is fatally flawed have been accused of disliking Italy or disrespecting its judicial system. But what has happened in the Amanda Knox case is not an Italian problem. When prosecutors make mistakes anywhere in the world, they don't like to admit it. It takes an exceptionally brave and wise "Solomon" to reframe a case after arresting the wrong people.The latest Italian proceeding did not involve any new evidence and, sadly, didn't shed any new light on the crime. There is still no proof that Amanda Knox was in the bedroom where someone stabbed Meredith Kercher. The DNA and fingerprint evidence is still entirely linked to a man named Rudy Guede, who is serving a 16-year jail sentence for the murder -- shortened thanks to testimony that put Amanda Knox on the crime scene.After he arrested them, the trial prosecutor proposed that the motive was a post-Halloween ritualistic sex game. But when authorities soon realized the DNA and fingerprints in the murder room belonged to neither Knox nor Sollecito, rather than reframing their case, the small town prosecutors and police in the glare of international media dug in their heels. In the latest proceeding, a new prosecutor abandoned the sex game motive but suggested Knox murdered Kercher after an altercation over Knox's poor hygiene and sloppy housekeeping.In other words, out with Satan and in with the dirty laundry.
    Amanda Knox convicted of murder again


    DNA expert: Science was ignored for Knox


    Dershowitz: Lots of evidence against Knox

    With no hard evidence and no credible motive, spectators around the world are right to wonder what's going on in these Italian courtrooms.Rudy Guede has never denied watching Meredith Kercher bleed to death, and he left a bloody handprint in the victim's blood on her wall. According to testimony from Italian forensic police, his DNA was inside the victim—although it was not clear whether there was a sexual assault. In his prison writings and in his testimony at his appeal, he talked of how difficult it was for him to get the image of the blood that flowed from Meredith out of his head.Did this garish confession shock the Perugian authorities and courthouse press corps into trying to ascertain just who and what this young man was? On the contrary, he apparently elicited mercy, and had his sentence cut in half. He may well be walking free before the Knox case is settled.In his first comments on the case, before he was captured, Guede was surreptitiously recorded by Perugia police in a Skype conversation with a friend, according to police wiretap transcripts in the trial record, saying that Knox had nothing to do with it. But as soon as he was connected with a defense lawyer, he started to change his story.It's a trope of the case that Knox (and Sollecito) had a P.R. machine, vast amounts of money and great legal defense, while Guede was legally under-served. In fact, his attorney was one of the busiest criminal defense lawyers in Perugia, well-connected with the prosecution, with a career behind him handling hundreds if not thousands of local crimes, often involving drugs and violence.Prosecutors' reluctance to deeply investigate Guede is understandable; they don't want to know. But Guede may be the most interesting character in the story. Born in Ivory Coast, brought to Italy at age 5, he is more Italian than most immigrants, but, like other immigrants, he is legally just a guest in the homogenous country, not a citizen, required to report to the authorities annually (which was why his fingerprints were on file in Perugia).In the months before the Kercher murder, Guede was broke and showing signs of mental illness, and was involved in three and possibly more home invasions, according to police reports, trial testimony and interviews with victims.His apparent modus operandi was to break into what he thought were empty houses and make himself at home. A few weeks before the Kercher murder, someone broke into a Perugia law office through a second floor window, according to trial testimony from the lawyer who practiced there, turned up the heat, rearranged small trinkets, drank an orange soda from the refrigerator and appeared to have slept on the couch before making off with a laptop.At a nursery school in Milan a week later, director Maria Antonietta Salvadori Del Prato, walked in on a Saturday and found Guede sitting at her desk, she told me in an interview. She called police. They found the stolen laptop and a knife in his pack. Del Prato suspected he might have gotten a key to the nursery school from one of her employees who frequented the Milan club scene. Del Prato told me she believed he spent a night on the children's cots and cooked a pot of pasta in the kitchen, then placed it in little bowls around the room.From that interview and many more, I pieced together a picture of a young man who seemed to be acting out some sort of fantasy of a home, a fantasy that perhaps abruptly cracked when Meredith Kercher came home unexpectedly while he was burgling her house, and unwittingly locked herself into the house with him. (Guede has maintained "whoever committed this terrible crime is still free.")I believe one reason for the lack of interest in this young man is that a man killing a woman is mundane and boring, compared with the more titillating image of women fighting and killing each other. The other reason, sadly, is a kind of reverse racism. He's black, and innocent black men are far too often railroaded in white systems, Italian and American. To suggest that this young man might have been the lone killer has a taint of political incorrectness.Male violence against women is a major public health problem worldwide, according to the World Health Organization.In the end, in this case, it appears that the commonness of the crime is what the Italian prosecutors—and many others--refuse to accept, searching for something more interesting and unique, in an elaborate, headline-grabbing crackpot theory that, they unfortunately still cannot relinquish.Remove the racial aspect, forget national pride and whether you "like" Amanda Knox, and we can see that this simple tragedy is all too routine.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/31/opinio...-knox-verdict/
    Last edited by MmeVertigina; February 3rd, 2014 at 03:21 AM.

  14. #569
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    34,679

    Default

    We aren't over there in Italy so don't know all the ins and outs. I think many people assume because it isn't United States she is being railroaded.
    I assume nothing. I educate myself. The Italian justice system has issues- here's an example: Six Italian scientists and an ex-government official were sentenced to six years in prison over the 2009 deadly earthquake in L'Aquila. A regional court found them guilty of multiple manslaughter. Prosecutors said the defendants gave a falsely reassuring statement before the quake, while the defence maintained there was no way to predict major quakes.



    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  15. #570
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    58,131

    Default

    ^^^
    seriously. it's like a mediaeval witch hunt. let's find some people guilty for an unpredictable natural disaster to appease the angry mobs. italy is fucking byzantine. any italian will tell you that.
    Brookie, llamamama and Butterfly like this.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 54
    Last Post: August 23rd, 2011, 07:24 PM
  2. "Joe the Plumber" book deal details emerge
    By bychance in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: November 17th, 2008, 12:21 PM
  3. Replies: 10
    Last Post: October 8th, 2008, 06:51 PM
  4. Replies: 13
    Last Post: November 13th, 2007, 05:44 PM
  5. Replies: 14
    Last Post: August 23rd, 2006, 07:38 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •