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Thread: "Foxy Knoxy" Amanda Knox gets $4m book deal from HarperCollins

  1. #511
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    Indeed, that whole occams razor thing.
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  2. #512
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Yet another thread that we will never, ever agree on.

    Carry on.
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    Myth: Rudy Guede was a drifter and a convicted burglar


    Not true
    . The drifter allegation is a product of the Gogerty Mariott firm. Guede had lived in Perugia since immigrating there when he was five, was raised by a well-to-do family and had his own apartment 100 metres from Sollecito's. Guede was known to the police, but never charged or had a previous conviction, however minor. All three defendants had had minor brushes with the law. In 2003 the Carabinieri found Sollecito in possession of 2.67 grams of hashish.[19] Amanda Knox had been issued a ticket and fined for a rowdy party where students were throwing rocks at passing cars.[20][21] Guede had been found in a Nursery School in Milan, where he had apparently spent the night, but had not broken in, and the police were called. They found him in possession of a laptop computer which had been stolen from a Perugia law office (which he claimed to have bought) and other items that might have been stolen property. He was questioned by police, but released.[22] A charge of possessing stolen goods was eventually brought in February 2008, by which time he was in custody for Meredith's murder. Still, if we accept the allegation of Guede's experience on its face, the illogicality of the alleged break-in becomes even harder to understand.
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  4. #514
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    "Guede was already well known to police by the time he killed Miss Kercher. As well as being a drug dealer with a criminal record for minor drugs offences, he had been held in Milan in the weeks before the murder for an alleged theft. On that occasion, he broke into a school to hide from police and, significantly, had a knife in his hand when he was eventually arrested."

    Amanda Knox trial: Rudy Guede profile - Telegraph
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Or not.

    "Yet investigators had tested the luminol footprints for blood and found them lacking, a truth carefully hidden from December 17, 2007 (when they were collected) until September 2009, when defense expert Sarah Gino outed the negative test during the trial that led to Knox and Sollecito’s conviction. Even now “bloody footprints” are the Knox case’s most persistent urban legend.
    Luminol identified nine prints in the cottage, but none were derived from blood,” notes Oggi investigative reporter Maria D’Alia in The Crime of Perugia: The Other Truth, a refreshingly fact-based book on the Knox case.
    “Tetramethylbenzidine, the test that reveals blood, gave negative results,” she continues. “Also, in this case, the court has affirmed that this outcome arrived from the prints in question. Tetramethylbenzidine(TMB) is considered a sensitive and reliable test that excludes the presence of blood.”"
    Amanda Knox: “Bloody footprints” tested negative for blood - Let's Talk About True Crime
    Or

    False Positives and Luminol

    A popular rebuttal against the claim that the footprints were made in blood is that luminol also fluoresces when sprayed on a few substances other than blood. The reason that luminol is useful to crime scene reconstruction rests on the fact that the substances that cause false positives are typically not found at crime scenes and in the cases of substances such as some brands of enamel paint the false positive are easy to detect because the reaction is not limited to a blood deposit pattern but covers the entire affected surface. In our case the luminol reactions were in the shape of feet with three of the traces having succinct details to identify them as footprints compatible with Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. The footprints were also limited to the part of the corridor between Meredith and Amanda's room and were not found anywhere else in the cottage. This would allow us to eliminate reactions to paint, terracotta or ceramic elements in the tile.
    To claim the footprints are the result of a false positive one is limited to claiming it is something that was on the feet of Knox and Sollecito. The most common and potentially exculpatory explanation would be bleach. If bleach was used in the cleaning of the bathroom Amanda Knox could have gotten it on her feet and then made imprints that would react to luminol. This fails when one considers that the luminol was applied December 18[20] and the murder happened November 1st with the body discovered November 2nd. Bleach only causes a reaction with luminol for a few days after the bleach is deposited.[21][22] After a few days the hypochlorite evaporates and so nothing is left to cause Luminol to emit light. Since in this case six weeks had passed it is impossible to attribute the chemiluminescence to bleach.
    With bleach eliminated the last remaining possibility would be a vegetable peroxidase. Turnip, parsnip, and horseradish pulp would give the strongest reaction but carrot or onion pulp would also work.[23] The defense is free to argue that Knox and Sollecito were in the habit of applying turnip pulp to their feet but no one is required to believe that claim and, importantly, they did not testify in court regarding any such practice. The unbelievability of the argument is the reason Knox supporters limit their argument for false positives to generic substances causing luminol to react. If they made the argument with any of the possible substances it would sound ridiculous. The elimination of bleach as a possible explanation for a false positive results in the only possible conclusion being that these footprints were made in blood.
    In Judge Massei's analysis of the luminol evidence, the court observed that there was an abundant quantity of Meredith’s blood on the floor of the bedroom to be tracked around the house, but no other obvious source of luminol-reactive substances.[24] The fact that DNA testing revealed the presence of genetic material in the samples indicated to the Court the presence of biological material that reacts with luminol. The court said that attributing the fluorescence to fruit juice, rust, bleach, vegetables, etc., could not explain the presence of reactive trace in so many parts of the house, whereas the walking in blood and subsequent cleanup easily accounts for the findings.[25] The court took note of the defense experts' arguments that the footprints could have been in some substance, such as fruit juice, rather than blood, but noted that these arguments were hypothetical, and were not supported by any evidence or testimony relating to the spilling of fruit juice.[26]
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  6. #516
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    And then...are we supposed to believe that Amanda and Raffaele sp? cleaned up most of their DNA evidence (somehow they could tell whose footprints and blood splatter belonged to who), but their "friend" Guede did not wish to clean his up? I still want to know if these 3 hung out at all prior to the date of the murder.
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  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    Myth: Rudy Guede was a drifter and a convicted burglar


    Not true
    . The drifter allegation is a product of the Gogerty Mariott firm. Guede had lived in Perugia since immigrating there when he was five, was raised by a well-to-do family and had his own apartment 100 metres from Sollecito's. Guede was known to the police, but never charged or had a previous conviction, however minor. All three defendants had had minor brushes with the law. In 2003 the Carabinieri found Sollecito in possession of 2.67 grams of hashish.[19] Amanda Knox had been issued a ticket and fined for a rowdy party where students were throwing rocks at passing cars.[20][21] Guede had been found in a Nursery School in Milan, where he had apparently spent the night, but had not broken in, and the police were called. They found him in possession of a laptop computer which had been stolen from a Perugia law office (which he claimed to have bought) and other items that might have been stolen property. He was questioned by police, but released.[22] A charge of possessing stolen goods was eventually brought in February 2008, by which time he was in custody for Meredith's murder. Still, if we accept the allegation of Guede's experience on its face, the illogicality of the alleged break-in becomes even harder to understand.

    ok, that actually clarifies more of the evidence, since there apparently was no actual break in, perhaps he was an invited guest of Kercher's.
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  8. #518
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Here we go again.

    1. Knox's DNA was not found in the bedroom, but in the bathroom. The bathroom was not the crime scene. Guede's DNA was on Kercher, underneath Kercher, in Kercher, and in her toilet. A palmprint was underneath Guede.

    2. To believe that Sollecito had anything to do with it, you would have to believe that two people with no crime record whatsoever managed to help kill Kercher, and leave ONLY Guede's prints and DNA at the crime scene.

    3. When Guede was arrested, he never made mention of Knox or Sollecito's involvement. When he was convicted, he didn't mention it either. He has lied repeatedly, many, many times when trying to explain his supposed "innocence". His naming of Knox and Sollecito involved coincided with a dramatically reduced sentence for him.

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    Neither Judge Micheli nor Judge Massei nor the Supreme Court believed he acted alone or had any part in the very obvious cleanup that had been carried out.

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMama View Post
    ok, that actually clarifies more of the evidence, since there apparently was no actual break in, perhaps he was an invited guest of Kercher's.
    Who would have motive to stage a burglary?
    The Staged Burglary

    Jump to: navigation, search
    One of the earliest clues that led to suspicion falling on Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito was that the burglary immediately appeared simulated. The two Postal Police officers, Michele Battistelli and Fabio Marzi, stated that they were suspicious of the legitimacy of the burglary immediately.[1] The call to the emergency number was also suspicious and when Raffaele Sollecito was challenged by the operator the line disconnected.[2] Meredith's body had not yet been discovered so the severity of the situation was still not known but right from the start the burglary would seem off. After the murder was discovered and the burglary investigated the police were able to determine that the burglary was staged. Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were convicted of staging the burglary. With the March 26, 2013 Supreme Court of Cassation decision Knox and Sollecito currently stand provisionally guilty of staging the burglary while awaiting the new appeal. Rudy Guede who was jointly charged with the murder of Meredith was not charged with staging the burglary. The Supreme Court of Cassation, at Guede's final appeal, specifically upheld the ruling that he was not responsible for the staged burglary.[3]
    ~~~


    Reps 176 and 177 in Filomena's Room

    Rep 176 was a Luminol trace found to have the victim's DNA, located on the floor near the window. Rep 177 was between the door and the window, containing a Knox/Victim mixed profile. That the victim's blood had been tracked into Filomena's room proved to the satisfaction of the courts that the staging must therefore have taken place after the murder.

    The justification has been offered that DNA of occupants might be commonly found in a home; while this makes intuitive sense there were no stray profiles of Filomena herself found in Filomena's bedroom, and certainly not mixed with the victim's blood.
    Last edited by Sasha; February 1st, 2014 at 05:52 PM.
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  10. #520
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    The site you're getting this stuff from doesn't really seem to provide sources for a lot of the info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    The site you're getting this stuff from doesn't really seem to provide sources for a lot of the info.
    As much or more sources for info as provided by defense experts and advocates writing for/quoted in Seattle pi. Judge Massei's report linked at the top of my last post came from the site.


    More:

    Court Transcripts



    The page containing the info in my last post-- The Staged Burglary---contains crime scene photos and exhibits. [the numbers] At the end of the page is a long list of notes. A few of the links go to primary documents of the case---not news reports:


    The Giordano Sentencing Report,

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  12. #522
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    I'm watching her now with Diane Sawyer interview.

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    For every post (source) claiming evidence, there is another post (source) claiming the evidence doesn't exist. Can we just hang this bitch for making my head hurt?

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    I definitely recommend reading the cited (ETA - not the Hellman report, one of the others) - it is atrocious and never addresses the fact that only Guede left biological evidence in Kercher's room. This passage, which basically speculates on how Knox and Sollecito could have suddenly become involved with Guede's rape and murder of Kercher:
    Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox, finding
    themselves with a free evening (Amanda Knox no longer needing to go to work and
    Raffaele Sollecito no longer needing to accompany a friend to the bus station), took
    themselves to Amanda Knox’s house where, perhaps after having consumed stupefying
    substances, busied themselves in making love in her room. But in the same residence there
    was also present Rudy Guede (either because he went there together with the other two or
    because he was let in afterwards), who, after having been in the bathroom (and having left
    his own faeces in the toilet without flushing), comes to find himself immersed in an
    atmosphere laden with erotic solicitations:
    Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in her room making love and a girl, Meredith Kercher, alone in her own room, who thus
    becomes a predestined object of desire. Rudy Guede, rejected by her, rather than fleeing,
    perseveres in the attempt to realise his intent … but at this point, evidently attracted by the
    commotion, Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox run into in Meredith Kercher’s room and
    here, instead of defending her, side themselves with Rudy Guede to try out this new
    emotion: eros and violence, to which – according to the Court – they had already been
    exposed
    , and in particular Raffaele, as revealed by a reading of books and watching films
    of that kind, as well as the use of [20] stupefying substances.

  15. #525
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    That whole theory is just so...loose, nothing behind it but complete speculation. Guede never stated that ^ this happened, did he? It's like they are being punished for smoking some pot and having lots of sex. How that leads to being accomplices in a murder is so wildly stretching for anything to tie them to the crime. Can you imagine? Oh, there is a strange man in the room with my roommate who is being assaulted, let's jump in. Then, let's watch/help him murder her and afterwards we'll clean up our part of the mess while he goes and takes a crap. Then he can leave, we'll wave him off and tell him that it's ok that his DNA is still all over the place, no one knows how to handle that stuff in Perugia anyway.

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