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Thread: "Foxy Knoxy" Amanda Knox gets $4m book deal from HarperCollins

  1. #406
    Elite Member NickiDrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idunno View Post
    The same could probably be said about the US legal system. And many others. Every country has its own legal horror stories.
    It's certainly true that every system has legal horror stories. I have witnessed several horror stories myself. Despite its flaws (and I will be the first one to point them out, trust me), the US probably has one of the best, if not the actual best, criminal legal systems in the world. If you plan to get arrested, the US is one of the better places to do it (unless you're a suspected terrorist, then you're just plain screwed). Our Constitution is the model for several other countries' constitutions, and we have pretty strenuous laws governing our trials, evidentiarily, procedure-wise, burden of proof-wise.

    I can honestly say that for criminal cases I would not only rather practice law in the US, I'd also rather be tried in the US. If I was a defendant/the defense attorney, of course. If I was a DA, I'd love Italy.

    This isn't an attack on Italy. Everyone has different systems. I'm just saying that as a defendant, you are generally more protected under US criminal laws in every state than you would be under Italy's criminal laws. The thought of a defendant being tried three times for the same incident because someone simply doesn't like/can't accept a verdict literally sends chills down my spine. Then again, I am a bit biased on this issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickiDrea View Post
    Despite its flaws (and I will be the first one to point them out, trust me), the US probably has one of the best, if not the actual best, criminal legal systems in the world. If you plan to get arrested, the US is one of the better places to do it (unless you're a suspected terrorist, then you're just plain screwed).
    I'll take my chances in a Danish criminal court over an American any day of the week.

    I won't have to be rich to win a case, and if my loved ones get killed in a car accident, at least I know the driver won't be able to go free, because he suffers from "affluenza".
    And if a black friend gets shot and killed, the killer won't get off scot free on "stand your ground"-defense, which is just ridiculous.

    And then there's the frivolous civil law/lolsuits, which just isn't possible in Denmark. So I'll take a Danish civil court over an American too.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickiDrea View Post
    Our Constitution is the model for several other countries' constitutions, and we have pretty strenuous laws governing our trials, evidentiarily, procedure-wise, burden of proof-wise.
    According the steadfast pillar of truth Wikipedia *cough cough*, while the US constitution has been an influence in the past, it isn't anymore. And the US constitution guaraties relatively few rights compared to other countries' constitutions.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...wide_influence
    Last edited by idunno; January 31st, 2014 at 01:42 AM.
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  3. #408
    Elite Member BelledeJour's Avatar
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    As an European, I totally agree with you, idunno.


    Anyway, I don't really care what is happening to her but more what is happening to her ex-boyfriend because he is the one in Italy right now. So he has to go to jail while she can be free in the US?

  4. #409
    Elite Member Neptunia's Avatar
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    What surprised me about my time in France as a kid (just six months as part of my dad's job) was how they could prosecute you for hate speech! What I personally love about the US constitution is the guarantee of freedom of speech. A lot of countries say they have that and many do, especially the UK but the hate speech laws in other countries which allow you to be prosecuted for saying hateful, stupid things bother me. How do you determine what's hateful?
    I don't get how you can prosecute Nazi salutes in France or Bridgette Bardot being fined for racial slurs. Same in Denmark for a Danish-Iranian woman who said horrible things about Muslim men and was convicted and fined. You can be convicted of crimes for being a Holocaust denier in Germany and get fined or go to prison. These are horrible things but just words, not actions.
    I don't understand those laws, people need to air their views and grievances without the idea of going to jail or being fined, even the really offensive ideas.
    Just my rant against hate speech laws.

    I haven't been paying too much attention to the Knox case except what I see occasionally on TV but did the prosecution explain how the murder weapon doesn't have the victim's DNA on it? They also changed their reasoning for Knox killing her roommate from sex game because Knox was "wicked" to just she was angry at her roommate being messy? Can you change the reasoning for a crime like that?
    Also, why would she and the Italian boyfriend get so much more time than the guy who actually had his DNA in the poor girl who was murdered? Confused by that, should have been paying more attention instead of asking questions on a gossip board. Sorry! Also, although I don't think that Knox or the boyfriend killed The roommate, I still find her odd and a bit creepy, just in the snippets of interviews I've seen of her and I'm not sure why.

  5. #410
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    One of Amanda's alibis was that her sometime boss Mr. Lumumba killed Meredith while she cowered on the kitchen floor covering her ears.

    Not 'he wanted Meredith real bad so maybe he did it' or 'I saw him lurking around sometimes so maybe he did it' or some other hypothetical. No. 'He killed her while I was in the kitchen'. This amounted to a positive identification, a first hand, eyewitness account of the murder. Only, it was a LIE. A. TOTAL. LIE. And the only reason we know it's a lie, the only reason Amanda had to retract the story, is because a bar patron, I think from Switzerland? can't remember, came forward to give Mr. Lumumba an alibi for the night of the murder and prove Amanda a liar.
    Only one of the murderers would lie like that about the murder in question. And this was only ONE of the many times Amanda changed her story about any/all of the circumstances surrounding the murder, including when/if she called the police--lies--when/if she tried to call Meredith that morning--more lies. It just goes on and on and on and on. How anybody could doubt she did it, I just don't know. Yeah, there were problems with the prosecution but there always are. The preponderance of the evidence, including Amanda's bloody footprint found on a pillow situated UNDER Meredith's body, points straight at Amanda's involvement.
    people always seem to forget about that other evidence...
    Quote Originally Posted by MmeVertigina View Post
    I think she has spoken about it at length, and yes, they wanted her to confess and she just wanted to get out of the interrogation and police custody. It does happen where people will confess to crimes they did not commit and later recant. My opinion on this case is neutral, but leaning toward her innocence. I don't think there was enough properly collected and processed evidence to convict her of murder. In any case, I don't think any of the scenarios that the prosecution came up with held much weight, so, even if she was guilty, it didn't go down how they guessed that it did. There was so much reasonable doubt here.
    I've leaned towards guilty with this one the entire time. even if the only thing the prosecution had was her bloody footprint under Meredith's body.
    Quote Originally Posted by idunno View Post
    I'll take my chances in a Danish criminal court over an American any day of the week.

    I won't have to be rich to win a case, and if my loved ones get killed in a car accident, at least I know the driver won't be able to go free, because he suffers from "affluenza".
    And if a black friend gets shot and killed, the killer won't get off scot free on "stand your ground"-defense, which is just ridiculous.

    And then there's the frivolous civil law/lolsuits, which just isn't possible in Denmark. So I'll take a Danish civil court over an American too.



    According the steadfast pillar of truth Wikipedia *cough cough*, while the US constitution has been an influence in the past, it isn't anymore. And the US constitution guaraties relatively few rights compared to other countries' constitutions.
    United States Constitution and worldwide influence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    good to know. and don't forget: you guys can legally fuck 15 year olds! Yay, let's all move there!
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  6. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptunia View Post
    What surprised me about my time in France as a kid (just six months as part of my dad's job) was how they could prosecute you for hate speech! What I personally love about the US constitution is the guarantee of freedom of speech. A lot of countries say they have that and many do, especially the UK but the hate speech laws in other countries which allow you to be prosecuted for saying hateful, stupid things bother me. How do you determine what's hateful?
    I don't get how you can prosecute Nazi salutes in France or Bridgette Bardot being fined for racial slurs. Same in Denmark for a Danish-Iranian woman who said horrible things about Muslim men and was convicted and fined. You can be convicted of crimes for being a Holocaust denier in Germany and get fined or go to prison. These are horrible things but just words, not actions.
    I don't understand those laws, people need to air their views and grievances without the idea of going to jail or being fined, even the really offensive ideas.
    Just my rant against hate speech laws.
    Hitler used hate speech to spread anti-semitism. You can use words to cause bodily/material harm, so there is a very real reason to ban it IMO.

    I think it's fine that hate speech is illegal in Denmark. It's not easy to be convicted for it, and plenty of racists go freee in court, because their speech wasn't deemed hateful. So, who decides what's hate speech? Well, the court does. It also decides if a beating is self defense, assault, aggravated assault, or attemted murder (within certain guidelines and precedence cases, obvs). A ban on hate speech certainly hasn't stopped Denmark from having one of the most racist political parties in Europe.

    IMO hate speech has nothing to do with freedom of speech. I do have freedom of speech; I can say whatever I want. I can tell all my friends and colleagues that jews breed like rats, I can walk down the street screaming that all muslims are terrorists. (These are NOT my opinions. I'm trying to make a point here). That's not hate speech.
    In order to be convicted for hate speech, I would have to publish/broadcast my hateful speech in a mass media, with the intent to degrade a group of people, because of their religion, race or sexuality.

    I'm not saying the Danish system is perfect, but I still prefer it to the American. Presumably, if the American people were unhappy with their legal system, they'd work to chage it.
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  7. #412
    Elite Member stef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gas_chick View Post
    I'd just sit my happy, free ass in the US. Plenty of places to travel here. I don't believe she did it, but even if I did, the way this has been handled is a true miscarriage of justice for the victim and her family and Amanda Knox and her ex.
    i agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neptunia View Post
    What surprised me about my time in France as a kid (just six months as part of my dad's job) was how they could prosecute you for hate speech! What I personally love about the US constitution is the guarantee of freedom of speech. A lot of countries say they have that and many do, especially the UK but the hate speech laws in other countries which allow you to be prosecuted for saying hateful, stupid things bother me. How do you determine what's hateful?
    I don't get how you can prosecute Nazi salutes in France or Bridgette Bardot being fined for racial slurs. Same in Denmark for a Danish-Iranian woman who said horrible things about Muslim men and was convicted and fined. You can be convicted of crimes for being a Holocaust denier in Germany and get fined or go to prison. These are horrible things but just words, not actions.
    I don't understand those laws, people need to air their views and grievances without the idea of going to jail or being fined, even the really offensive ideas.
    Just my rant against hate speech laws.
    you always have to look at history and political processes if you want to fully understand certain laws, especially the german criminal code. plus, hate crimes like incitement of the people or denying the holocaust are treated similar to defamation or slander. while free speech has to be protected, human dignity has to be protected as well. it's not like these people will go to jail for it, they'll get a fine and that's it (and their nazi website gets closed, for example). if you're saying you're against hate speech laws because people need to be able to air their views regardless of how they might affect others, you'd also have to be against laws like defamation. i see the problem, but i think the pros outweight the cons here.
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    Personally, I have always felt she was involved due to the comingling of blood, jmo.

    Looks like Sollecito tried to flee...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rder-case.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptunia View Post
    Also, why would she and the Italian boyfriend get so much more time than the guy who actually had his DNA in the poor girl who was murdered? Confused by that, should have been paying more attention instead of asking questions on a gossip board. Sorry! Also, although I don't think that Knox or the boyfriend killed The roommate, I still find her odd and a bit creepy, just in the snippets of interviews I've seen of her and I'm not sure why.
    When his DNA was matched and they caught him, he originally said he was alone. Later, he implicated them and testified against them, and the thank you for that cooperation was to have his sentence halved. That's the super short version of it.

  10. #415
    Elite Member gas_chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    Duress from whom? The police? Gee Amanda is speshul. Duress from the police is usually done in an effort to force people to falsely confess to a crime they didn't commit. Did they beat her with a hose to try and make her implicate the black guy?
    There sure has been more than one case where someone confessed under pressure only to be proven not guilty later. I guess all those people who are wrongly convicted can be speshul too.
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    ^ The West Memphis Three, and the Central Park Five come to mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gas_chick View Post
    There sure has been more than one case where someone confessed under pressure only to be proven not guilty later. I guess all those people who are wrongly convicted can be speshul too.
    Yeah. I know. I agree. That wasn't my point and that is not what happened here. Amanda didn't confess, she threw an innocent man under the bus and let him sit in jail for weeks without saying a word. A man she knew full well to be innocent, I might add. It wasn't until Mr. Lumumba was given an alibi by a disinterested party that he was released.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Things like that happen all the time in criminal cases. Finger pointing, police feeding names, false confessions, etc. Everyone is so sure of what they would or would not do if it were them. I'd like people's POV after they've been interrogated for 15 hours.



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    And some people here would view it differentlty if it were their child being held and interrogated for 15 hours, in a foreign country, in a language that is not their native tongue, without representation.
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    I have been neutral in the past re this crime, because even after reading about it, it is hard to make sense of the case. But AK's statements disturb me. (There is a very untrustworthy person in my life, so I have had to learn a bit about lies.)

    "I am frightened and saddened by this unjust verdict," she said in written remarks. "Having been found innocent before, I expected better from the Italian justice system. The evidence and accusatory theory do not justify a verdict of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. ...There has always been a marked lack of evidence."


    She called the legal proceedings a travesty.


    "This has gotten out of hand. Most troubling is that it was entirely preventable," she said. "I beseech those with the knowledge and authority to address and remediate the problems that worked to pervert the course of justice and waste the valuable resources of the system."


    Knox also said that Kercher's family had suffered greatly.


    "Their grief over Meredith's terrible murder will follow them forever. They deserve respect and support."
    Common sense: if you were accused and convicted of murdering a roommate, what would you say? Would you say that there is not proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, circuitously and padded with technical-sounding words? No. You would say that you did not do it. Plain and simple, you did not do it. You might make further statements, but the fact of your innocence would be the most important thing.

    She has a history of making confusing and misleading (and untrue?) and indirect statements, and whether she did or didn't have a hand in MK's death, something is very wrong for her to speak this way.
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