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Thread: Ellen Page comes out as transgender, will be called Elliot

  1. #46
    Elite Member Tiny Pixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    Thanks Manx

    Kudos to you!


    I find it both funny & objectional that I don't qualify as "female" to some TERFS as I don't have female reproductive organs.
    I can't imagine how objectional TERFS are to Trans people.
    I remember JK Rowling's answer to "people who menstruate", and how upset she was that the person writing the article didn't write "women" - I can join you in the "people TERFS don't consider female" group as I don't menstruate (and plan on getting rid of my useless reproductive organs XD)
    I don't know what I am to them, maybe a penguin XD

    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    Also, just want to say to the poster who mentioned it, that the state of a trans person's genitals doesn't dictate their sexual orientation in relation to other people because you aren't any less or more trans based on whether you've had gender reassignment surgery. Some never have the surgery for various reasons, and if they identify as female and like females, then they're gay etc. And I imagine Elliott's wife does not now consider herself straight simply because her partner has now come out as trans. They can both consider themselves queer for purposes of non-labeling I suppose.
    It is still weird to me that people are super concerned with other people's genitals ... I mean ... that's super private XD
    My best friend's partner is currently transitioning, she just had her female identity approved by the French authorities - I don't know whether or not she plans on having any gender reassignment surgery because I didn't ask because it's none of my business, but every person I talk to about my best friend and her girlfriend have asked "but, did she get rid of her penis then?"
    They also say they're queer, to not dig too deep into different labels, but I feel every queer person's experience is different and labels can get complicated.
    Fluctuat nec mergitur
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  2. #47
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    That's what I don't get. Trans women being considered women and trans men being considered men isn't going to affect the lives of cis men and women, but it will make the lives of trans men and women infinitely easier and will show them respect. I don't know if people's reactions are based in fear or ignorance, and in the case of TERFs I think it's just some kind of misdirected anger and territoriality, I think they think that broadening the definition of women to include trans women will somehow hurt or weaken feminism. I just don't understand caring that much. It's fine if you don't want to be an ally and put in any effort towards trans peoples rights, but then really at most you should just be indifferent, I don't understand why so many people feel threatened by those who live outside the cis gender binary.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Our daughter has a very good friend who is a FTM trans, at least since I've known him. This is where I also heard the term "dead naming" because our daughter said her friend was having conflicts with his parents and they had referred to him by his "dead name".

    Anyway, about two months ago, the friend has decided she is a cisgendered female again and is now going by her original name. I was so confused that I had to ask our daughter and Mrs Mo to explain which name was which and when.

    I'm pretty flexible about stuff like this in general, but the idea of having one of my own kids go through this really concerns me because of the situation above. Like, are you supposed to be a supportive enough parent that you pay for FTM or MTG surgery only to find out that your child has changed their mind later?
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  4. #49
    czb
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    ...
    I'm pretty flexible about stuff like this in general, but the idea of having one of my own kids go through this really concerns me because of the situation above. Like, are you supposed to be a supportive enough parent that you pay for FTM or MTG surgery only to find out that your child has changed their mind later?
    that's my question as well.

    we had a close friend whose daughter decided she was FtM trans. i was skeptical since this family had been through a lot of trauma (very difficult divorce) and it sounded to me like they were just picking potential causes for the depression in their daughter and the TG one got traction. so when the mom told me all this and how her daughter was slated to get the 'top' surgery and she was only 17, i said, isn't that drastic? and she looked at me like i had 6 heads and said that keeping breasts wasn't healthy. so i was trying to be supportive but also honest. and obviously this isn't something i have a lot of knowledge abotu so was trying to get educated.

    the daughter did end up getting the 'top' surgery but the mom moved out of state along with both her kids right after the TG kid graduation. the mom never told me and i just found out about it from FB. so no info.
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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    i totally understand the concerns parents might have. and i don’t think it’s unreasonable to not let minors get any kind of surgery, and even in adults no one should have surgery until they’ve had therapy and have been in the care of good doctors for at least several years. i am in favour of puberty blockers for trans kids and teens since these are reversible should they change their minds, and they prevent the sort of irreversible body changes that would make a successful transition more difficult (like developing breasts, voice changes, broad shoulders, body hair, etc.)

    Also, statistically, very few trans people have major surgery and then regret it and want to be cis again. There's a much higher risk of suicide among trans people, especially those without a strong support system and an accepting environment.
    Last edited by sputnik; December 4th, 2020 at 05:39 PM.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  6. #51
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I kind of feel like teen years are a really tough time to figure out or make definitive decisions about what sex you are (to the extent that it involves surgery) or even if you are gay. As a really dramatic example, our niece came up to stay the weekend with us so she could see a Bon Hiver concert at Merriweather. One of the people who came along with her was a very out gay friend. He even was wearing a tank top making some dramatic statement about his sexual orientation. A few months later, I asked her about her friend, and she said that he was now in a straight relationship with a friend of hers who had identified as an out lesbian -- until she met him.

    All of this is to say that my feeling is that this is a very fluid situation and the main thing is that I am leery of doing some kind of surgery because you really can't effectively reverse it. Even Jazz, the MTF trans person, had taken hormone blockers so early that she didn't have enough penis to do the kind of genital reconstruction the surgeon wanted to do. I'm only mentioning that because I don't think that taking hormones, at some point, is going to allow someone to recover from the micropenis that they would get from hormone blockers.

    Our daughter has had at least three friends with gender dysphoria. One trans friend dismissed another trans friend (behind their back) as "trans-trendered" -- basically, that they were a poser. Which angered our daughter because she knew the other friend had been formally diagnosed with gender dysphoria. So, even trans people doubt the feelings of other trans people.

    It's a really tough situation, and I'm just relieved that I don't have to deal directly with the issue. I doubt my parental decisions enough already.
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    Well that's the thing about sexuality, it's a fluid gradient. When I first read about that idea, it totally resonated. I thought that's exactly why the rainbow was adopted as the gay flag.

    One person can exist along many points on the gradient, at any given time. But that's what makes it so anti-binary. When there's a million+ choices within a color/rainbow gradient, I can see that it's really tough existing in a black-and-white world. And in the same vein, it's tough for the black-and-white thinkers to compute all the million+ variances.

  8. #53
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    Well that's the thing about sexuality, it's a fluid gradient. When I first read about that idea, it totally resonated. I thought that's exactly why the rainbow was adopted as the gay flag.

    One person can exist along many points on the gradient, at any given time. But that's what makes it so anti-binary. When there's a million+ choices within a color/rainbow gradient, I can see that it's really tough existing in a black-and-white world. And in the same vein, it's tough for the black-and-white thinkers to compute all the million+ variances.
    Yeah, I like the idea of this kind of continuum where everyone has their relative preferences. Such as strongly hetero, bi, strongly gay/lesbian, and somewhere in between each. The fact that there is a term like "gold-star lesbian", to me, indicates that every community has these rigid orthodoxies where even one sexual experience "over the line" stigmatizes you and makes you suspect.

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    I love the whole fluid idea -- I have a son with autism and teach children on the spectrum so it's a concept I really understand and relate to.

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    Elite Member InigoMontoya's Avatar
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    I had the pleasure of hearing this therapist talk regarding gender identity for 1.5 hours at a medical conference this past February before the pandemic hit. I live in the Deep South and so want to get her back here to speak once things return to somewhat of a sense of normalcy, because people here need to hear this. She was born and reared in GA and now lives in CA. Here is a link to her Ted talk. Itís only about 20 minutes, and well worth the watch. Letís hope I can link it correctly:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euegk8-WjoQ

    Last edited by InigoMontoya; December 5th, 2020 at 09:38 PM.
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  11. #56
    Elite Member InigoMontoya's Avatar
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    Apologies for the double post. Couldn’t imbed, but the link works.

    Sent the link to a great friend whose child (he’s 16 now) who is FtM. His parents are so supportive; but my friend, while still a great person of the faith to which she and her husband subscribe, found that their friends just fell away. That is what hurts the family the most.

    She even has been part of a local (she’s in CA as well) series of segments of interviews with those who have had a family member transition.

    I have mad respect for her. In the culture from which she was born, this isn’t accepted. But she and her husband did, though at first it was a bit of difficulty for her. Luckily she has a wide group of us from varying states and countries who just supported her, and once she (paraphrased) said to herself, “OK, what I thought was going to happen with my child with milestones...they’ll still be milestones, they’ll just be his milestones and we will be behind him every step of the way.”

    And they have been, despite criticism they have faced from extended family members and the conservative faith congregation to which they used to belong.

    They chose their son over all the naysayers, and they faced a *lot.* I have mad respect for her and her husband and son.

  12. #57
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InigoMontoya View Post
    Apologies for the double post. Couldn’t imbed, but the link works.

    Sent the link to a great friend whose child (he’s 16 now) who is FtM. His parents are so supportive; but my friend, while still a great person of the faith to which she and her husband subscribe, found that their friends just fell away. That is what hurts the family the most.

    She even has been part of a local (she’s in CA as well) series of segments of interviews with those who have had a family member transition.

    I have mad respect for her. In the culture from which she was born, this isn’t accepted. But she and her husband did, though at first it was a bit of difficulty for her. Luckily she has a wide group of us from varying states and countries who just supported her, and once she (paraphrased) said to herself, “OK, what I thought was going to happen with my child with milestones...they’ll still be milestones, they’ll just be his milestones and we will be behind him every step of the way.”

    And they have been, despite criticism they have faced from extended family members and the conservative faith congregation to which they used to belong.

    They chose their son over all the naysayers, and they faced a *lot.* I have mad respect for her and her husband and son.
    You just reminded me of something. Mrs Mo and I had a regular workout partner who has two children. About 4 years ago, when Trump was still running for President, we were at a party (not for Trump) with a bunch of people from the workout group. Our children, and the workout partner's children were there. The older sibling of our workout partner was this gorgeous girl - diminutive kid, about 5 feet even - about Page's size. At the time basically dressing as a Cisgender girl. Also a star guard on her basketball team. A couple of years later, the mom announced (on Facebook) in a kind of indirect way that the daughter was transitioning to male, along with the new name. From what we could see there was not a lot of controversy or blowback - but this is a pretty progressive community as it is.

    This son is now going to college, but at a community college. I think they are trying to have their son in close orbit around them so that they can be supportive. Just a feeling, though.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny Pixie View Post
    I remember JK Rowling's answer to "people who menstruate", and how upset she was that the person writing the article didn't write "women" - I can join you in the "people TERFS don't consider female" group as I don't menstruate (and plan on getting rid of my useless reproductive organs XD)
    I don't know what I am to them, maybe a penguin XD



    It is still weird to me that people are super concerned with other people's genitals ... I mean ... that's super private XD
    My best friend's partner is currently transitioning, she just had her female identity approved by the French authorities - I don't know whether or not she plans on having any gender reassignment surgery because I didn't ask because it's none of my business, but every person I talk to about my best friend and her girlfriend have asked "but, did she get rid of her penis then?"
    They also say they're queer, to not dig too deep into different labels, but I feel every queer person's experience is different and labels can get complicated.
    Yeah I saw that & she lost me before then.
    Wait til those bitches hit manopause & get fat & hair(ier)!!!!

    I agree - none of this is my business. Some people are waaay to interested in what is happening in other people's pants for their own good!

  14. #59
    Elite Member Tiny Pixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    Some people are waaay to interested in what is happening in other people's pants for their own good!
    And I didn't even mention the common friends we have who casually asked what kind of sex they were having depending on whether or not my bf's partner had had a gender reassignment surgery.
    It's like ... come on, if that person were cis, would you ask them what kind of sex they're doing? I'm not uptight or anything, but as far as I can recall, none of them asked me for example what kind of sex I was having XD
    (and for all they know, maybe I'm into some super weird shit that's really worth talking about XD)

    From what I've seen on Twitter, it seems to be a recurring question when trans people are talked about, and once more, mind your own business people!
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    ^ I don't get it either, but I never have. I mean, I don't spend time wondering about the sex life of straight people, why would I care about gay/trans/whatever sex? To each their own.

    Re the big curiosity about oh did they get the gender reassignment surgery, I dunno...I guess straight people can't relate, especially straight men, who totally cringe at the thought of giving up their most prized possession. Hell, I have a neighbor who won't even neuter his damn dog, it goes around the neighborhood lifting its leg and marking its territory, talk about projection.
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