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Thread: Chrissie Hynde Under Fire for Rape Remarks

  1. #16
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark View Post
    Personally, I think I'm raising the kind of young man that would give a drunk girl walking around in her underwear a blanket to throw over herself and make sure nobody messed with her until he could help her find her friends and make sure she got home safe. But hey, that's just me.
    From my experience, if you think you are, you probably are. I had a family friend (a couple years older than me), who was visiting us, and the last day she was there, she took me barhopping all over DC. I was slightly underage, but she was the one buying. That night, when everyone else but the two of us were awake, she called me over to lie down next to her while we were watching a movie. She put her arms around me. I knew she had really tied one on, so I didn't try anything. She fell asleep a little while later and I went to bed. The next day, she woke up looking really hung over and embarrassed. We never said anything to each other, but I wonder if she was so drunk that she thought we actually did do something.

    Also, I'm really disappointed in Chrissie Hynde - I thought she was literally one of the last people who would say something like this.

  2. #17
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BITTER View Post
    What are the differences/similarities in the way US women view sexual assault compared to Europeean women?
    Given the posts here? Fuck all. The rapist is responsible for the rape not the victim or their dress sense.
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  3. #18
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    I stop short of feeling it's the woman's fault, but I still liken it to defensive driving. It's just smarter to avoid putting yourself at higher risk, even though an accident could happen to anyone no matter how defensively you drive. And it's still going to be the fault of the driver who ran the red light or whatever, that's never the issue. But sometimes it helps your odds to think defensively.

  4. #19
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    From my experience, if you think you are, you probably are. I had a family friend (a couple years older than me), who was visiting us, and the last day she was there, she took me barhopping all over DC. I was slightly underage, but she was the one buying. That night, when everyone else but the two of us were awake, she called me over to lie down next to her while we were watching a movie. She put her arms around me. I knew she had really tied one on, so I didn't try anything. She fell asleep a little while later and I went to bed. The next day, she woke up looking really hung over and embarrassed. We never said anything to each other, but I wonder if she was so drunk that she thought we actually did do something.

    Also, I'm really disappointed in Chrissie Hynde - I thought she was literally one of the last people who would say something like this.

    I'm not disappointed, I'm very sad for her that she internalized being gang-raped this way. I would hope that she would get some help for this, it doesn't sound like she ever did.
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  5. #20
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Well I'm guessng it was +- 40 yrs ago & we are fortunate that (most) attitudes have changed.

    Plus there is the whole should vs actually does thing that goes on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    I stop short of feeling it's the woman's fault, but I still liken it to defensive driving. It's just smarter to avoid putting yourself at higher risk, even though an accident could happen to anyone no matter how defensively you drive. And it's still going to be the fault of the driver who ran the red light or whatever, that's never the issue. But sometimes it helps your odds to think defensively.
    Yeah, but then I think of rapists that break into houses & rape - inc little old ladies... And then I get all "cut their dicks off".
    I got told by my neighbours (via MrN's 89 yo uncle) to not wander around my home in my underwear - my responce? Tell your peeping-tom husband not to look... Not exactly the same but I do feel that I should not have to change my behaviour because some perv can't control himself.
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  6. #21
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    Well, true. I do the same and while I try to make sure the blinds are lowered, I feel like if they get an eyeful, it's their own fault for being looky-loos. I mean, I'm no pinup so the joke's on them really.
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  7. #22
    Elite Member Shinola's Avatar
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    I think this situation sucks. I hope that the negative feedback could become an opportunity for Chrissie Hynde to change the way she views her own experience -- that can be a painful but ultimately empowering thing.

    Analogies may be of limited use, and things are not always cut-and-dried, but ... If my door is open and you come in and steal my stuff, you still stole it. If I left my keys in my car and you drove off in it, that's still my car and you stole it. If I tell you, "Go ahead, kill me," and you do it, you still murdered me. And if I have a fence, and lock my door, and never leave my keys in my car, and never invite someone to take my life, all of those things can happen anyway. If I actively seek to deter them happening, they still can happen. The onus is ultimately on the person who did the wrong thing.
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  8. #23
    Elite Member ManxMouse's Avatar
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    Honestly, though she seems like she'd be an admirable badass woman, Chrissie Hynde has said and done a whole slew of problematic/embarrassing things over the years.
    She's not so much a feminist as an every-person-for themselves kind of chick. So this doesn't shock me, but I have a hard time having ANY sympathy for this kind of attitude regardless of her own experience.
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  9. #24
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Do we ever say that a male rape victim shouldn't have been wearing shorts on a hot day or a tight t-shirt on a night out? That he shouldn't have been out alone? That he shouldn't have been drinking? That he shouldn't have got up dancing and been a bit loud and lairy?

    Do we?

    Then nobody should ever, ever think it's ok to say the same about a female rape victim.
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  10. #25
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    Comment: Chrissie Hynde and the problem with caring what celebrities think

    http://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainment/celebrity/comment-chrissie-hynde-and-the-problem-with-caring-what-celebrities-think/ar-AAdM5u1?li=AA59yp&ocid=

    The Drum
    Lauren Rosewarne 6 hrs ago


    ABC Chrissie Hynde has said women can bring about their own rapes.


    Social media and a lazy press have created a culture where we're supposed to care what Chrissie Hynde says about rape. But holding a celebrity up as role model is laughable, and ultimately our problem, not hers, writes Lauren Rosewarne.

    In Ricki and the Flash, the ageing rock star wannabe of the title (Meryl Streep) has an American flag tattooed on her back. She'd voted for Bush. She supports the troops, she hates Obama, yadda yadda, she's vaguely homophobic.

    Ricki's politics are barely a minor point in film, but work as a timely reminder that often rock stars are a bundle of contradictions. We often assume because they earn their dollar in the creative industries that they'll have counterculture views. That they'll be progressive and subversive and left-leaning in the ways that we associate with living-on-the-scent-of-an-oily-rag artists.

    Sometimes, however, they'll jar us by being all gunned-up and a card-carrying Republican.

    Chrissie Hynde.

    Another ageing rock star although certainly no wannabe.

    Night in My Veins is one of my all-time favourite songs. I'm not going to claim it's necessarily feminist - a) I don't choose my music based on politics; and b) I'm not going to waste my 700 words addressing the "which feminism" question - but the song is sexy and powerful and provocative.

    Hynde, truth be told, is at the helm of much of the music on high rotation through my ear buds.

    So how does it feel when a favourite musician publicly claims that women can bring about their own rapes? That she, apparently, brought about her own gang-assault? How does it feel to hear her use the word "prostitute" as a term of disparagement?

    Has she let me down? Has she let the sisterhood down?

    To channel my inner schoolmarm, in fact, she's only let herself down.

    Sure, Hynde has spoken words that conflict markedly with my own views. And she's defamed sex workers, insulted rape victims and gifted get-out-of-jail-free cards to scumbag perps. But her contribution to my life is restricted to her music. I didn't expect better of her, I didn't expect anything of her. That there's such an outcry is attributable to the fact that there's simply too much interest in the thoughts/actions/(mis)deeds/dining habits of celebrities.

    Hynde is not an idol, her function in my life isn't to teach me about society or about politics. She isn't my moral beacon. Sure, she's perhaps given voice to my love/sex/angst/anomie at times, but holding her - holding any celebrity - up to role model status is ridiculous. They're ordinary people with the foibles, ill-informed views and contradictions akin to the rest of humanity. Expecting more is laughable.

    It's always worthwhile putting a spotlight on sloppy journalism and the kind I'm thinking about today centres on those "celebrities react" articles. Letting us know, say, what Taylor Swift thinks about the American pastime of firing bullets into random strangers.

    Pushing aside the relevant questions about why a celebrity reaction is worth repeating in news media, rather, I'm interested in the consequences of such reporting. Instead of just letting celebrities thrive in their fields of expertise, alas, social media and a lazy press have created a culture where we're supposed to care what people who can sing/act/kick think about politics, gun control, sexual violence.

    There's an argument to be made that it'd be good for someone like Hynde to use her platform for good, not evil. Sure. But from Hynde's - albeit warped - perspective, she is. She's speaking a truth as she sees it. That we're listening and electing to get riled up is more our problem than hers.

    Dr Lauren Rosewarne is a senior lecturer in the School of Social and Political Sciences at the University of Melbourne.
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  11. #26
    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    Not much is said about male rape victims at all, because we hear so little about them. They seem to struggle even more with (unjustified) feelings of shame than women and largely suffer in silence.

    As far as comments about a woman's behavior prior to an attack goes, I don't know how much of it is misogyny and how much is simply feeling uncomfortable with the idea that truly terrible things can happen to a person for no particular reason. I know that when I hear about a rape on the news, the first thing I want to know is when it occurred. If it happened in the middle of the night, I feel a bit relieved knowing it could not have been me in the wrong place at the wrong time, in that instance. It's probably a false sense of security, but there it is. When it happens at 8pm, it makes me much more uneasy. No one likes to believe their own safety is completely out of their hands. It's not about blaming the victim for me at all; I seek out reasons to make myself feel more comfortable, and I think this mostly occurs at a subconscious level. Though I must say I have never wondered what a victim was wearing.

    Of course we have every right to be out alone at whatever time of night we wish, and get as drunk as we'd like, in whichever neighbourhood we want to be in, without getting raped. But there are many lowlifes in this world who do not respect those rights, and so we have to do what we can, within reason, to protect ourselves. I don't think pointing that out should be construed as victim blaming.

    (I am, of course, speaking generally here. Hynde really did come right out and blame victims.)

  12. #27
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostroop View Post
    Any sort of decent human being would NOT take advantage of a person (man, woman or child) walking around naked.

    I hate when society blames the victim, I hate it even more when the victims feel that they are some how at fault for what happened to them.
    i don't blame victims, at all. regardless of what they're wearing/doing/saying. the rapist is always to blame. and you're right that no decent human being would ever take advantage of another.
    however, i also don't operate under the assumption that i live in a world where most people are decent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    I stop short of feeling it's the woman's fault, but I still liken it to defensive driving. It's just smarter to avoid putting yourself at higher risk, even though an accident could happen to anyone no matter how defensively you drive. And it's still going to be the fault of the driver who ran the red light or whatever, that's never the issue. But sometimes it helps your odds to think defensively.
    yup. see my comment to moostroop.
    and i'm fully aware that rape can't be avoided and that if someone is going to break into your house and rape you there's not much you can do and that what you're wearing has nothing to do with it, even if you're raped by someone you know. it's a power thing.
    that said, like you, i also think defensively. i also assume people are just as capable of good as they are of evil and at least try to avoid being in any kind of situation where i'm alone in unfamiliar surroundings or at unsafe times, never abandon my drink, etc.
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  13. #28
    Gold Member bootspaige's Avatar
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    Sure, if you are trying to be safe, don't get so drunk, don't wander around withough friends naked, don't do drugs...etc....but none of those things excuses rape or prevents you from being the victim if it happens. Poor girl.

  14. #29
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    I agree with Chrissy Hynde. If u go around dressing & acting like a slut weather ur drunk or not you are going to get treated like one.

  15. #30
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Fuck off
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; September 1st, 2015 at 06:59 PM.



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