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Thread: CBS pulls Rihanna Song as Thursday NFL Opener in Wake of Ray Rice Scandal

  1. #46
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Really - so she should have just stood there like a fucking statue and allowed him to clock her? Just no.
    GRuser1, mjw and Kittylady like this.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melyanna View Post
    She was just defending herself and reacting to an unbelievable amount of violence.


    Trying to overlay this video with visuals of the typical DV scenario we're all familiar with, whether through personal experience or education, does a total disservice to this important conversation that's occurring out there, IMO. The conversations shut down with the people we most want to hear it, because all it sounds like to them is: men can't defend themselves, men should let women physically abuse them. And that's going the wrong direction. The message is no one should use physical violence, abuse or threats in their relationship.

    The national conversation has to stick to the actual events of the video and discuss why they might have happened, and work towards the dynamics of DV, as uncomfortable as it might be to acknowledge her actions in order to get there, because describing the events in a way that literally don't match the video....it just falls on deaf ears. You've already lost your audience.
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  3. #48
    Elite Member GRuser1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CL** View Post
    Trying to overlay this video with visuals of the typical DV scenario we're all familiar with, whether through personal experience or education, does a total disservice to this important conversation that's occurring out there, IMO. The conversations shut down with the people we most want to hear it, because all it sounds like to them is: men can't defend themselves, men should let women physically abuse them. And that's going the wrong direction. The message is no one should use physical violence, abuse or threats in their relationship.

    The national conversation has to stick to the actual events of the video and discuss why they might have happened, and work towards the dynamics of DV, as uncomfortable as it might be to acknowledge her actions in order to get there, because describing the events in a way that literally don't match the video....it just falls on deaf ears. You've already lost your audience.
    Look, there is a difference from saying that men should let women abuse them, and that victims shouldn't be blamed for defending themselves.
    My point was the latter. Of course I don't think that it's OK to abuse men.

    You should probably read this book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...es_He_Do_That_

    “I am often asked whether physical aggression by women toward men, such as a slap in the face, is abuse. The answer is: “It depends.” Men typically experience women’s shoves or slaps as annoying and infuriating rather than intimidating, so the long-term emotional effects are less damaging. It is rare to find a man who has gradually lost his freedom or self-esteem because of a woman’s aggressiveness.”
    “It is not possible to be truly balanced in one’s views of an abuser and an abused woman. As Dr. Judith Herman explains eloquently in her masterwork Trauma and Recovery, “neutrality” actually serves the interests of the perpetrator much more than those of the victim and so is not neutral. Although an abuser prefers to have you wholeheartedly on his side, he will settle contentedly for your decision to take a middle stance. To him, that means you see the couple’s problems as partly her fault and partly his fault, which means it isn’t abuse.”
    Not that quoting a couple of sentences out of context will allow me to state my point properly, but what I see in the video is a man hitting a woman so hard she becomes unconscious and then the same man dragging her on the floor like an object.
    That makes me think that the level of violence in their relationship is highly unbalanced, and statistics tell me that it is more likely that he is an abuser and she acts in self defense and as a reaction to the violence, rather than they are in a mutually and equally abusive relationship.
    Last edited by GRuser1; September 13th, 2014 at 11:37 AM.

  4. #49
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    If a child hits me, is it OK to defend myself by beating that child? I mean, it's the child's violent behavior that contributed to the situation....



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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melyanna View Post
    Look, there is a difference from saying that men should let women abuse them, and that victims shouldn't be blamed for defending themselves.
    My point was the latter. Of course I don't think that it's OK to abuse men.

    You should probably read this book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...es_He_Do_That_





    Not that quoting a couple of sentences out of context will allow me to state my point properly, but what I see in the video is a man hitting a woman so hard she becomes unconscious and then the same man dragging her on the floor like an object.
    That makes me think that the violence is highly unbalanced, and statistics tell me that it is more likely that he is an abuser and she acts in self defense and as a reaction to the violence, rather than they are in a mutually and equally abusive relationship.
    I'm not saying you think it's ok to abuse men. I'm saying that I think this is what men are hearing, when people don't want to talk about the video events factually and acknowledge her striking him. (and women - plenty of women are out there defending him with the "I hit you/I deserve to be hit back" mantra) That is a big piece of what some people defending the situation are hung up on - her pushing him, her moving towards him and hitting at him. Not acknowledging that, and whitewashing the events of the video, closes the conversation to moving to why a victim of DV may react that way, and getting into the broader dynamics of abuse, IMO. I'm rarely seeing out there, online, discussions of why the victim in a DV relationship would use violence or explanations of why it happens and why it doesn't take away from them being the victim in this victim/batterer relationship. That's all I'm trying to say.

  6. #51
    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    This is what I see in the video: First he waits for her to walk by so he can either spit on her or hurl verbal abuse-- hard to be sure. She makes a 'get away from me' gesture. Then he follows her into the elevator to berate her. She raises her arm up --to get him out of her face, NOT to hit him. Then he punches her. She flies at him in response to being punched and he answers with extreme violence, knocking her out cold.

    Yeah, let's make sure she gets a large chunk of the blame for defending herself against intimidation and violence. She should have stood passively by while he got in her face, and said 'Sorry Dear', when he punched her the first time. Maybe she should learn not to talk back either. Maybe she shouldn't have any opinions of her own because that could set him off too.

    The fact that she publicly accepted it as mutual combat means nothing. Victims of domestic violence blame themselves all the time. If only I had walked on eggshells this wouldn't have happened.

    There is no excuse for what he did. None. He was never in danger from her at any time. And the utter lack of concern he shows for her well-being afterwards demonstrates very clearly that he is a hopeless asshole.

  7. #52
    Elite Member Flygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    It seems to me that the Ravens and the NFL were happy with the suspension for a few games until the video surfaced and caused public outrage. Now they are overreacting to quell the complaints. I believe the punishment must be based on the rules that were in place at the time of the incident.
    i loved this entire post, but wanted to quote this especially. This is my biggest problem with the whole incident. Who cares what the video looks like? They had an Atlantic City police statement in their possession that said "He struck her in the face, rendering her unconscious." What the fuck did they think that looked like? Bunch of hypocrites, all of them. My issue has never been whether or not they saw the tape; the police report should have been more than enough , especially knowing if the cops were exaggerating, it would be to the benefit of the celebrity.

    Quote Originally Posted by BITTER View Post
    It was the level of violence - I mean, he hit her like they were going at it in a boxing ring - that was so shocking. He knocked her OUT. And now it's recorded for posterity. People can't NOT say anything. It's seen. It's known. Can't take it back.
    As I said above, I understand humans are visual creatures, but it really shouldn't take a video or picture for us to take this shit seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittylady View Post
    And they are BOTH wrong for trying to take chunks off each other but as for bitching that people are commenting on it - if you want to start boxing in public then shit is going to GET public.
    Quoted for the TROOF!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    If a child hits me, is it OK to defend myself by beating that child? I mean, it's the child's violent behavior that contributed to the situation....
    Completely agree with you, but at least the child has the mental understanding of a child. Although it doesn't really apply in this situation, in general grown ass people need to learn to keep their hands to themselves, no matter what their gender. That being said, a professional athlete blessed with his strength should respect it. I would be equally appalled to see him knock out a small, 120 pound man knowing his strength, power and training

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    I don't know much about the case but I feel if he was abusive to her before she probably wouldn't have the courage to stand up to him, argue with him, or try to hit him knowing that he might/will hit her and hard.

  9. #54
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    I don't know if anyone remember the statements of the people who witnessed the initial incident on the casino floor? The accounts all said that one of them was hitting and the other walked away.
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  10. #55
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    women shouldn't hit men either, i agree. but if a woman hits a man, especially if the man is a big strong athlete, he can defend himself by pushing her away, holding her back, grabbing her arms to stop her from hitting him, etc. but punching her so hard he knocks her unconscious? where is the proportionality in that? it's like me stomping on someone's face with steel toe boots in response to someone pulling my hair or pinching me or something.
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  11. #56
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    I'm sure I have told the story before but my ex got involved with a crazy woman/drinking partner after I left him. One night in a drunken fit she got angry at him, grabbed scissors and went after him to cut off his hair. He grabbed her arms to restrain her and she jabbed the scissors into his leg multiple times making him bleed. He finally pushed her off and she slammed into a window and broke the glass. He left the house and went to cool off but she called the state police. Then she called him and said he better come back or the police would issue a warrant. He went back and was arrested. But once the police saw that he was scratched and bleeding they arrested her too. Both spent the night in the county prison. The next day she called me, crying and told me that she was trying to "cut him bad" and can't believe the police arrested her. Long story short, I called the DA and told them that she called me and what she said. They then interviewed my ex and her again. She admitted she went after him with scissors. They dropped charges against my ex but kept the charges against her. She got probation and he got a restraining order. She was a tiny woman and he was 6'7". He kept his cool and never hit her. He did his best to restrain her as she was stabbing scissors into his leg. He shoved her off of him and left. That is what a real man should do when a woman uses violence. And in a perfect world, a women will get away as fast as she can when a man is violent with her.
    You don't engage with crazies. Because they're, you know, fucking crazy. - WitchCurlGirl

  12. #57
    Gold Member Yoko Ono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    um, hitting someone so hard you knock then unconscious isn't something that should be "worked out in therapy", it's something the aggressor deserves to go to jail for. it's a violent crime. simple as that.


    this.
    i'm not a fan of riri's music but the nfl choosing to address this by silencing a domestic violence abuser is telling of what exactly the nfl thinks of women. they have so many players facing or who have faced domestic violence charges, it's scandalous. and the only reason they're "addressing" them is because of public outcry. and i'm sure the nfl isn't any better or worse than other sports leagues. the real culprit here is the whole hero worship culture that surrounds professional athletes, and the organisations around them that enable their awful behaviour and cover up their scandals as long as they're bringing in the millions.

    i despise professional sports organisations not just because of the sexism but because of the entire culture of greed and impunity and corruption. the only thing i watch is tennis because so far they seem to be somewhat less culpable, or at least there are less players doing godawful shit like this.
    I agree totally with this.

    A lot of the time the behaviour is actually fostered from a young age with some very strange regular group bonding sessions involving prostitutes, professional groupies and incredible peer pressure and almost cult like secrecy about it too.
    A semi professional athlete that I worked with many years ago told me a story that made my stomach turn of the radical ways some managers go about fostering team work off the field.
    Luckily he got out before going full professional , married his childhood sweetheart had a beautiful family and now coaches and trains to keep the love of his sport alive.
    He didn't at all regret getting out of it and had therapy for many years to undo the years of dysfunctional brainwashing from the time he was a young teenager till his mid 20s.

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  13. #58
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Have seen a couple of interviews with wives of former NFL players over the weekend on TV - what they say is that as a player's spouse, you are basically told to support your husband, don't say anything to the media, don't do anything controversial that gets YOU into the news, don't do anything that reflects badly on either your husband or the team. In other words, sit down, shut up and take it. It sounds like the NFL is run like the Mafia.

    Also something I found out this morning - the NFL operates as a non-profit. SERIOUSLY?????
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    I broke my psycho ex's nose. He was raising his hand and threatening to throw a scalding mug of tea in my face and I pushed out to keep him away and caught him square on the nose. I still got the mug of tea in my face and also a split lip, cracked front tooth, two other teeth knocked out of alignment and bruising to my scalp, arms, legs and ribs (he was a pro - rarely hit my face or anywhere that couldn't be covered by my hair or clothes).

    According to some ways of thinking I got what I deserved because in that one because I was the one who made the first physical contact when he had only been intimidating and verbally aggressive. Shit on that is my reply. I didn't deserve any of that.
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    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookie View Post
    Roger Goodell is a weasel, and I sincerely hope he's forced to either quit or gets the boot. He's handled this entire incident badly, and seems to do whatever he pleases as the commissioner.

    And Janay Rice - wake the fuck up, dearie, before you and your daughter are harmed further - or worse.
    Agree. Roger Goodell is a piece of shit! They will punish football players for hitting a quarterback or a team for a bounty... but it's totes cool to knock a woman out? fuck you, goodell - and you know he KNEW what that fucker did in that elevator!
    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    I have really mixed feelinsg about this entire case. I am clear on one - Goodell must go. As for Ray and Janay - I will never condone domestic violence but feel we need to step back and look at the facts of the case.

    I find myself wondering if he has a history of violence. At his age it is unusual to suddenly begin to be violent with women. Have past women from his life come forward to report issues? Perhaps this was the first time, he really has stopped drinking and is working within therapy and/or his church/faith to become a better man. I personally can find no excuse to make domestic violence acceptable from a man or a woman and in this case they were seen hitting each other. He delivered the knock out punch to end the fight. But we do not know if she was a victim previously? Was she hitting him because they have a history of violence? Only she can answer that and she's siding with her husband and asking the public to stay out of their business. I have seen couples who have overcome domestic violence and go on to build strong, peaceful, loving familes. Perhaps that could be the future for Ray and his wife. They have the added burden of working this out in the public eye. Is it fair to make Janay the face of domestic violence without her consent?

    The video is so shocking that it causes an instant reaction of outrage and the desire to want to see swift and immediate action against him. But what action is appropriate beyond the court proceedings? The NFL is trying to rehab their image due to the many arrests of its players for various reasons in the last few years. They tightened rules on domestic violence and then used them retroactively in this case. I do not see how this is legal. Here is a clip of an article about the new policy effective Aug 28th.

    The N.F.L.€™s New Domestic-Violence Rules
    On Thursday, in a letter sent to the owners of the National Football League’s thirty-two teams, the commissioner Roger Goodell introduced new punishment guidelines for any league personnel who commit offenses relating to domestic violence or sexual assault. The first offense would draw a six-game suspension, without pay, while the second would lead to immediate banishment from the league. There are, however, caveats: the first suspension could be shorter or longer, depending on “mitigating factors”; and anyone who is kicked out after a second offense will be able to apply for reinstatement after a year. The new policy also includes calls for increased training and counselling for league employees.

    It seems to me that the Ravens and the NFL were happy with the suspension for a few games until the video surfaced and caused public outrage. Now they are overreacting to quell the complaints. I believe the punishment must be based on the rules that were in place at the time of the incident.
    of course they were! assholes!
    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed Hour View Post
    I do agree with all of you. I just take the stance that if a woman is going to raise her hands, then she should be prepared for the fall out. IMO, she wasn't a passive victim in all of this.
    I was raised with 5 brothers and I was always taught: if you put your hands on a man, you've put yourself in a man's place. Now, I ain't ever met the motherfucker that's crazy enough to hit me (in a relationship - one guy did hit me at a bar once and he carried a beating) because my brothers WILL beat someone's ass if they are that foolish. BUT, I will tell you that I don't think I've ever put my hands on any man either. It's about mutual respect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenna View Post
    This is what I see in the video: First he waits for her to walk by so he can either spit on her or hurl verbal abuse-- hard to be sure. She makes a 'get away from me' gesture. Then he follows her into the elevator to berate her. She raises her arm up --to get him out of her face, NOT to hit him. Then he punches her. She flies at him in response to being punched and he answers with extreme violence, knocking her out cold.

    Yeah, let's make sure she gets a large chunk of the blame for defending herself against intimidation and violence. She should have stood passively by while he got in her face, and said 'Sorry Dear', when he punched her the first time. Maybe she should learn not to talk back either. Maybe she shouldn't have any opinions of her own because that could set him off too.

    The fact that she publicly accepted it as mutual combat means nothing. Victims of domestic violence blame themselves all the time. If only I had walked on eggshells this wouldn't have happened.

    There is no excuse for what he did. None. He was never in danger from her at any time. And the utter lack of concern he shows for her well-being afterwards demonstrates very clearly that he is a hopeless asshole.
    The scary thing for me is this: The only person who seems to care less than Ray Rice about Janay's well-being... is Janay.
    Kill him.
    Kill her.
    Kill It.
    Kill everything... that IS the solution!
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