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Thread: Cate Blanchett and Andrew Upton adopted a baby girl: Edith Vivian Patricia Upton

  1. #46
    Elite Member stella blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    If so, do you actually believe that you have all the rights over your child even once they become adults, and that they should have to go through a clearinghouse for all their life decisions?
    How on earth did you come to that conclusion? I don't think ANYONE has ANY rights over anyone else, with the exception of parents of minor children. The clearing house I referred to is more like Tinder for adoptees/birth parents. Put your name in, if both parties want contact, have at it.

    I can't walk in off the street and get my mother's medical records. Why should a stranger be able to get mine?

    I often feel adoptive parents are most harmed by the closed system. They have to raise a child without the benefit of knowing basic medical backgrounds the rest of us take for granted. When their child acts in a way that is not within the norm for that family, they don't where this behavior comes from and do not know how to respond. They have society telling them they are "saviors" for taking in this poor child when in fact they are the lucky the ones. But raising a kid when the title of savior has been bestowed upon you is hard. Who can really be that good. Society told them they could just take this kid in, and pretend it is just like a biological child, so when the child expressed natural curiosity they perceive it to be a failure of their parenting instead of a healthy response to being raised by someone who did not birth you. If the child becomes an adult and dares to search they feel like they failed which really sucks.
    Perhaps. I can't speak to that side of it. I just feel like life deals a shit hand to a lot of people, and being raised by a family who wanted you badly enough to jump through all the hoops it takes to adopt isn't all that bad.

    Adoption is wonderful for those who need the process - if it is handled with honesty and the needs of the child, who will become an adult, are placed first.
    I agree, but if a birth parent has the desire and ability to put the needs of the child first, they may not be putting them up for adoption in the first place. For some, they want it over and done with, and I think that is a perfectly legit reaction.
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  2. #47
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stella blue View Post
    I can't walk in off the street and get my mother's medical records. Why should a stranger be able to get mine?
    In most cases if you have a question about family medical history you can ask a member of your family, be it your mother, father, aunties, grandparents, whatever. Adoptees don't have that option and can be left with potentially important blanks. I'm not an adoptee but due to a wilfully absent parent there's large gaps in my family medical background and that does, on occasion, worry me. I only recently found out that my biological father has diabetes and this, along with the fact that I have a maternal cousin who is also diabetic possibly increases my own risk of developing it at some stage in my life. I know that my cousin is the only person on the maternal side of my family to develop it but aside from my biological father's situation I have no clue as to whether any of his brothers and sisters, nephews and nieces are also diabetics. I also know that maternally there hasn't been a series of deaths from breast or ovarian cancer but as to my biological father's family.... no clue. Not an inkling.

    There's no need for complete openness with a birth parents medical records because whether or not their birth mother had a boil on her arse lanced or needed acne treatment for a few years as a teen has very little bearing on their own health and well being, but knowledge whether or not there is a wider bio-family history of cancers, diabetes or even serious mental health conditions is important.
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  3. #48
    Super Moderator Tati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stella blue View Post
    I don't have a problem with the adoptive parents having all the rights. They've taken on all the responsibility. And what exactly is the point of a closed adoption if it can just be opened back up later? I don't think either party should be able to do anything about it after the fact. Maybe there could be some sort of clearinghouse for people who want to be connected to have the option, but it would need to have the consent of both parties.
    There aren't only two parties in the equation here.
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  4. #49
    fgg
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    while we were thinking about adoption, my plan was going to be to always be open and honest about the child being adopted so it wasn't strange or secretive and to make sure that i was matched to someone who wanted a semi-open adoption (is that a thing?) because everyone wants to get a better understanding about themselves by seeing who/where they are from. i wouldn't want the birth parents in our business but i wanted my child to have the option of approaching his/her birth parents and getting answers at some point.
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  5. #50
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stella blue View Post

    I can't walk in off the street and get my mother's medical records. Why should a stranger be able to get mine?

    There have been clearinghouses for years and they do not work and many adoptees find the process insulting. Why should they have to go through someone else to get THEIR legal records. The rest of us can get them on demand.
    NO ONE is getting medical records so please do not distort this. They want THEIR birth certificates and records of birth.

    fgg - yes there are semi open adoptions. Sometimes they exchange full names but have all contact through an agency. Sometimes they exchange just first names. You have a great attitude about adopting. The biggest misconception about open adoption is that it is co-parenting which is very wrong.
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  6. #51
    fgg
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    both of my husband's sisters adopted and in one instance, it is very obvious that the children aren't theirs. in the other case, we all talk openly about the toddler being adopted and it was only when we all started discussing whether my husband and i would adopt that we both found out that his other sister wasn't planning on telling her child. i wouldn't do it that way and i am totally freaked out that i might be the one that slips up at some point.
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  7. #52
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    That breaks my heart. They always find out and it is so damaging when it is not from their parents.

    I am working with a family right now with 3 kids struggling because they found out their father was infertile, so their parents used sperm donors. Their father is still their father, but their trust has been shattered since they found out from an angry cousin. The oldest daughter is having the most difficult time because they used a donor, had her, and then decided to use a different donor for #2. When it was time to conceive child #3 they decided to go with the same donor as #2. Now the oldest feels that they were unhappy with her, liked #2 better, so they used that donor again because he produced better kids. These "kids" are 22, 26, 29.
    Last edited by sluce; March 26th, 2015 at 11:12 PM.
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  8. #53
    czb
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    oy that sounds awful.

    so how often does it occur that the birth parents decide they want the baby/child back after the baby was placed with the adoptive family? i think that would be my biggest fear, had we adopted a kid.

  9. #54
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Disruptions are very rare, especially when the placement is facilitated through an agency and all parties are counseled. Private adoptions disrupt at a higher rate. You also have to look at the laws of each state. PA for example allows irrevocable voluntary termination of the parental rights at 72 hours (insane). Once finalized, the birthparent cannot get the baby back unless they can prove they were coerced or defrauded. Other states have a waiting period of a few months and prospective adoptive parents take custody but have no legal standing as parents - they are basically foster parents at that point. If the birthparent(s) change their minds, the child must be returned. They know that going in. The rare case we see in the media often involves heart broken prospective adoptive parents who let their attorney lead them down the wrong path, and towards bankruptcy, by encouraging them to keep custody and fight it in court. The hope is that a judge will say "hey legally the child should be returned, but now that they have been with you for the 2 years it took to get through the courts, we'll just let you keep the child so we don't upset their lives." But that doesn't happen. The courts follow the law.

    I worked with a couple once who was considering fighting in hopes that the birthparents would get tired, and run out of money, and give up. I asked how they would explain this to the child one day. Would they be comfortable telling their daughter that her birthparents realized they did not want to give her up when she was a month old, but they wanted her so bad so they used their money to tie it up in court until her birthparents gave up? They returned the baby to her mother.
    Last edited by sluce; March 26th, 2015 at 11:14 PM.
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  10. #55
    czb
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    so why does it disrupt at a higher rate for private adoptions? i assumed that disruptions happened frequently because those seem to get media attention. i will admit that scared me away from adopting.

  11. #56
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Private adoptions are handle by lawyers. A couple pays them. They (the prospective adoptive parents or lawyer) advertise for a birthmother. Once one is found they pay her living expenses and medical. There is no counseling for any party. At an agency the birthparents, and even birth grandparents, are counseled. As many as 50% drop out of the program before they are ever matched to an adoptive family because they realize it is not right for them. So with an attorney, and no counseling, the baby is born and then suddenly it is real and the birthparents have to deal with decisions and issues that should have been worked out in advance.

    You also need to realize that it is not a disrupted placement if the prospective adoptive parents willingly took the baby home knowing the parental rights had not been terminated. No doubt it is heartbreaking, but they had no legal rights at that time. I also hear prospective APs talk about disruptions when they are selected and then the mother changes her mind even before the baby is born. It really sucks that they are out any money they already paid but, again, they knew those risks going in. With an agency you pay a fee, if a mother decides to keep, you go back into the pool of couples to be selected. The cost doesn't change.
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  12. #57
    czb
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    so does it frequently happen that APs take home a kid but they (the APs) had no legal rights at the time? and i do think it would suck for the prospective APs if they were selected and the BM changed her mind.

  13. #58
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    It depends on the state. Here in PA the parental rights are terminated before the baby goes home with the AP. In other states, as PA was until a few years ago, the rights cannot be terminated for up to 90 days or even as long as 6 months. In those states, the AP are basically foster parents, with no legal rights, until the parental rights are terminated, and then they have to wait for the court date to finalize the adoption.

    It does suck when they are selected and then the BP changes their mind, even when the baby has been born. But it is part of the process.
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  14. #59
    czb
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    ah. thanks for the info.
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    Just wanted to say that this has been a very interesting (and enlightening) discussion to participate in. Such a difficult topic. Interesting viewpoints from all
    sides.
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