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Thread: Bruce Jenner- I'm Ditching My Adam's Apple

  1. #511
    Elite Member Sassiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed Hour View Post
    I wish him lucky if his "journey" is transitioning. My stepchild has transitioned to male. His own mother will not speak to him or allow him in her home. He's now a "bad influence" on his younger siblings. People suck, including those who are supposed to love you unconditionally.
    It's always heartbreaking and amazingly hypocritical when parents' "unconditional love" turns out to have a lot of conditions. Like Leelah Acorn, poor love.
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  2. #512
    Elite Member Sassiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czb View Post
    kudos to his mom. she sounds awesome.
    Except that she's continually referring to her daughter as her son.... I mean, it's better that rejecting her, but to continue to refer to "him" when she has made a clear and open choice to transition to her real gender is just not right.

    It really bugs me when people claim to support transgender rights but then point blank refuse to use the correct pronouns. A woman or a man is a woman or a man based on who they want to be: not based on the genitalia they may have been born with. If someone introduces themselves as a gender that contradicts your initial stereotyping (e.g. the late in life MTF transwoman who still has a very masculine jaw line or cheap wig while she grows her hair beyond what was the previous norm for her outward body) then you use the right fucking pronoun.

  3. #513
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    He hasn't transitioned yet. He hasn't publicly proclaimed to be living as anyone other Bruce Jenner. So there's no need for mom to be changing pronouns yet. At least not for a public interview. We don't know what they do in private.

    I don't see the point of throwing an old lady under the bus who seems to be a wonderful, loving and accepting mom just because she (likely) doesn't know to change a pronoun. This is new territory for most of us. Especially people her age. I'm sure she'll have no problems referring to Bruce/Jenna properly when the time comes. I'm just glad he has someone in his corner.
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  4. #514
    Elite Member llamamama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassiness View Post
    Except that she's continually referring to her daughter as her son.... I mean, it's better that rejecting her, but to continue to refer to "him" when she has made a clear and open choice to transition to her real gender is just not right.

    It really bugs me when people claim to support transgender rights but then point blank refuse to use the correct pronouns. A woman or a man is a woman or a man based on who they want to be: not based on the genitalia they may have been born with. If someone introduces themselves as a gender that contradicts your initial stereotyping (e.g. the late in life MTF transwoman who still has a very masculine jaw line or cheap wig while she grows her hair beyond what was the previous norm for her outward body) then you use the right fucking pronoun.
    He JUST told her about it. Give her some time to adjust and learn to use the correct pronouns. When do transgender people start changing pronouns. He hasn't even said he's a woman yet, with a woman's name, a bit premature to call him a she.
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  5. #515
    Elite Member Sassiness's Avatar
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    It's something that one of my friends, who is a queer rights activist and academic, has pointed out to me and changed my mind on the topic. I used to be of the view that you let your approach to pronouns etc be guided by the other person - e.g. if a masculine looking person introduced themselves as Sarah, then you referred to them as "she" etc as she was clearly identifying as a woman, but if they introduced themselves with a gender neutral name or you weren't sure if they were androgenous, gender queer etc or trans, then you took a punt, hoped for the best and then got ready to apologise immediately if you got it wrong.

    What my friend pointed out to me is that this is indicative of the heteronormative mindframe of our society, and the default to heterosexual gender binary male/female pronouns etc reinforces to trans and genderfluid persons that they are "other" - outside of society, not welcome.

    Since then, I've made an effort to be more proactive about it - don't wait, and don't assume. If I'm not sure how someone identifies, use gender neutral pronouns. Actively avoid making gender binary assumptions about male/female definition.

    It's challenging because it means going against the kind of thinking that has been drummed into me over the last 30+ years by society and having to actively think about what I'm saying/writing before spitting it out, but it's worth it to not be a cunt who is contributing to the isolation of transgender and genderfluid/genderqueer persons in our community.

    As for Bruce Jenner, by all accounts she is transitioning: she has made her choice about her gender. Accordingly, we should be referring to her by female pronouns. Or at the very least, by gender neutral pronouns (they, their etc)

    While "Bruce" hasn't made a public statement, I think it's a fair bet that is to ensure TV ratings for the doco - which I'm more than a bit cynical about!

    Also: "she hasn't transitioned yet" - well, there are stages to transitioning. The most definitive is making the conscious decision to live as the gender with which one identifies, but it's by no means the first stage. The idea that a person does not transition into a new gender until they've had gender reassignment surgery is really inaccurate - what's between your legs doesn't necessarily define gender. If a person identifies as a man or a woman, they don't need a penis or a vagina to live in their true gender. Surgery is expensive, carries risks of infection and complication and a damn scary. Some people need that closure of removing the offending genitalia and getting the "right" ones, others don't.

    The UK had an excellent doco series called "My Transsexual Summer" which was shown in Australian tv a year or two ago that covers this quite well. Highly recommend watching it - very interesting show. What was good is that while the show skirted around the idea of gender queer/gender fluidity, some of the participants were gender non-binary and were open about why they were choosing to have some or no surgery to alter their bodies: e.g. a FTM man who had had his breast removed, but had no intention of having genital reassignment surgery; a MTF woman who openly identified as female but also "other" and liked the fact that she was different, she had no intention of removing her penis even though she had added breasts and hips to her body. Conversely, there were participants who went through genital reassignment surgery or were saving up for it because for them, they needed that in order to feel their transition was complete. However the show didn't let participants get into any in depth conversation about gender fluidity and at least one of the participants said afterwards that the impression from producers was that while they were supportive of trans issues, it was like gender non-binary was a step too far for the British public to be confronted with.... which is sad.

  6. #516
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassiness View Post
    Except that she's continually referring to her daughter as her son.... I mean, it's better that rejecting her, but to continue to refer to "him" when she has made a clear and open choice to transition to her real gender is just not right.

    It really bugs me when people claim to support transgender rights but then point blank refuse to use the correct pronouns. A woman or a man is a woman or a man based on who they want to be: not based on the genitalia they may have been born with. If someone introduces themselves as a gender that contradicts your initial stereotyping (e.g. the late in life MTF transwoman who still has a very masculine jaw line or cheap wig while she grows her hair beyond what was the previous norm for her outward body) then you use the right fucking pronoun.
    Do you know for a fact that Bruce has requested that people start calling him by another name or that feminine pronouns be used? I agree with you that it has nothig to do with external appearance but in this case you're getting way ahead of yourself. You said yourself, "don't assume".The minute Bruce makes it known he's living as a woman I and everyone here will start referring to him as such but for now nothing has been said.
    the only part I don't agree with is the not waiting for cues from the person concerned. How exactly is that supposed to work?
    Right now we're talking about tabloids and rumors. His mother confirmed he is embarking on a transition but you don't know that even he wants to be referred to as a woman, yet.
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  7. #517
    Elite Member Charmed Hour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassiness View Post
    Except that she's continually referring to her daughter as her son.... I mean, it's better that rejecting her, but to continue to refer to "him" when she has made a clear and open choice to transition to her real gender is just not right.

    It really bugs me when people claim to support transgender rights but then point blank refuse to use the correct pronouns. A woman or a man is a woman or a man based on who they want to be: not based on the genitalia they may have been born with. If someone introduces themselves as a gender that contradicts your initial stereotyping (e.g. the late in life MTF transwoman who still has a very masculine jaw line or cheap wig while she grows her hair beyond what was the previous norm for her outward body) then you use the right fucking pronoun.
    Quote Originally Posted by llamamama View Post
    He JUST told her about it. Give her some time to adjust and learn to use the correct pronouns. When do transgender people start changing pronouns. He hasn't even said he's a woman yet, with a woman's name, a bit premature to call him a she.
    Pretty much what llamamamma said. It's very hard to remember proper pronouns early out and harder when their name has changed. Eventually it becomes habit.

  8. #518
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    1. We do not know what pronoun Bruce wants used or whom he/she has told regarding what to use at this point.
    2. His mom has known Bruce as a male and has been referring to him/her as "he," "him," etc. for 60 years or so. That's a lot of habit to overcome. I'd give it time.
    3. I want to give this woman her propers for saying she's prouder of him for this than for his achievements as an Olympian.

    For the record, I hate it when people refuse to refer to transgendered people by their chosen name/pronoun. But I don't think that is necessarily what is going on here.
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    Cut the woman some slack. He's the one who's changing the rules after 65 years, not her. She's being supportive just not using the correct pronouns, hardly a big deal.
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  10. #520
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    Bruce Jenner's New Name Revealed but It's Not What We Expected | The Stir

    Bruce Jenner's New Name Revealed but It's Not What We Expected

    Kiri Blakeley
    1 hour ago GossipMonger

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    Now that it's pretty much all but 100 percent confirmed that Bruce Jenner is becoming a woman -- with even his mom admitting that it's true -- people have had just ONE thing on their minds. And no, it's got nothing to do with his privates! Have some respect, people! It's about his NAME. Surely, he will not continue to be called Bruce, will he? Well, Star magazine has the scoop on what Bruce wants to be called from now on. And it's a name that is expected in one way, but totally unexpected in another!




    According to the latest issue of Star (say what you will about this tabloid, it DID call Bruce's transformation ages ago), Bruce now wants to be called Belinda.
    There had been rumors in the past that Bruce would change his name to Bridget, but Star says this source is solid, and Belinda it is.
    Of course, it's rather expected that Bruce would choose a name similar to his own, and one that starts with a "B." That way, he doesn't have to change his monogrammed towels, amiright?
    But what's sort of strange about the name is that Linda is the name of his ex-wife, Linda Thompson (mother of Brody and Brandon).
    And when you dice the name Belinda, it's "Be" "Linda." You'd think a guy wouldn't want to be reminded of his ex-wife every day.
    Star also says that Kris Jenner didn't take the news well at all, despite the fact that she was aware of his gender orientation issues before they even got married. Apparently he'd been talking about becoming a woman before they married, but Kris was determined to have a "trophy husband" and talked him out of the transformation. Hey, always blame the wife, right?!
    Personally, I have compassion for Kris. The idea that she knew exactly what she was getting herself into, I don't necessarily believe. People like to think the wives always know all of a husband's deep, dark secrets, but that is absolutely not true at all. If Kris had no idea about this, I really feel for her.
    As for Belinda, there are lots of pretty names Bruce could have chosen, but this one seems to fit the bill ... linda.
    Do you like his new name?

  11. #521
    Silver Member Raff's Avatar
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    Kris Jenner was aware of his gender orientation issues before they wed?????? How did that work???

    He said, "I realize now that I identify as a female and would like to transition into a woman." Then she says, "No, I have a better idea. You stay a male, we get married and raise a family."

    That is one persuasive bitch...

  12. #522
    Gold Member laynes's Avatar
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    My nephew (formerly niece) transitioned about 3 years ago at the age of 26. My father still calls him, "her" and by his old name. My nephew told him it was fine. My father even paid for him to have breast reduction surgery. He for some reason just can't call him, "him" or by his new name. Everyone is different. Maybe Bruce is ok with it right now? I know it's hard not to put our own issues on someone else. But maybe cut the woman some slack.

    Hate the name Belinda.



  13. #523
    Elite Member SHELLEE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laynes View Post
    My nephew (formerly niece) transitioned about 3 years ago at the age of 26. My father still calls him, "her" and by his old name. My nephew told him it was fine. My father even paid for him to have breast reduction surgery. He for some reason just can't call him, "him" or by his new name. Everyone is different. Maybe Bruce is ok with it right now? I know it's hard not to put our own issues on someone else. But maybe cut the woman some slack.

    Hate the name Belinda.
    Same thing here only he's 16 and went from Mary to Iggy, which i hate and told him. The whole family is behind him 100%. Except the name lol, even the grandparents. Every now and then someone will slip up. It happens ffs and is not intentional. Guess what, no one has a fucking cow about it, not even Iggy.
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  14. #524
    Silver Member Wilson's Avatar
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    For a name, I wish she had gone with Kris.

  15. #525
    Elite Member Chalet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilson View Post
    For a name, I wish she had gone with Kris.
    Now that's comedy.

    I know I won't think of Bruce as a female till he appears a bit more female. I'll be curious about the grandchildren because kids always speak the truth. What they see is what is usually where it's at. Does he have teenaged grandchildren? Grammy B?

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