Brigitte Bardot convicted of provoking hatred

[Grimmlok]

Islam came about in the 9th and 10th centuries, during and after the prophet mohammed's life.. it's a fairly "new" religion. Judaism predates it by about 1500 years, christianity about 700-1000. All of them are offshoots, or newer versions of the old Abrahamic religion.. ie, that's why all 3 are the "people of the book". That's why mohammed is the "last prophet".

Ancient Persians, taking on the Spartans, were not Islamic. Islam didn't start to spread out of Arabia till the 800-1000's and the battle with the spartans started a good 2000 years before it ever came around.. the crusades started about 1000-1200.

[twitchy]

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

There does come a point when the immigrant population does not assimilate into the country and culture they relocate into, and merely transplant their way of living, shoving the indigenous population off a cliff. Any immigrant SHOULD assimilate as best as he or she can, however still retain what cultural differences that make them unique in order to share such with the indigenous population (providing no conflict with established laws/social rules, etc). That's what can make a multicultural society so vibrant: one country, many homelands. The differences are what make life spicy.

Indigenous populations have a right to be pissed that they are being forced to accomodate immigrant 'demands' or 'special rights' or 'allowances' that have no place in the societal structure that is already established. A little leeway here and there is expected, as adjustments need to be made but outright non assimilation? Forget it. Assimilate or leave, otherwise it's a territorial fight for a way of life.

You can only be SO liberal with that kind of thing before you find yourself swamped and sidelined in your own country.

So how's your pemmican?

[tkdgirl]

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

Islam came about in the 9th and 10th centuries, during and after the prophet mohammed's life.. it's a fairly "new" religion. Judaism predates it by about 1500 years, christianity about 700-1000. All of them are offshoots, or newer versions of the old Abrahamic religion.. ie, that's why all 3 are the "people of the book". That's why mohammed is the "last prophet".

Ancient Persians, taking on the Spartans, were not Islamic. Islam didn't start to spread out of Arabia till the 800-1000's and the battle with the spartans started a good 2000 years before it ever came around.. the crusades started about 1000-1200.

Well that would be news to both my friend Ghazala, who teaches Koran class, and Shirley, a Jewish Christian who works with Ghazala giving seminars on religious tolerance.

[witchcurlgirl]

I learned a bit in college about the Islam ancient history.

Googled it now, and hit number 2 was this:

Many, if not most of the followers of Islam believe that:

Islam existed before Muhammad was born

The origins of Islam date back to the creation of the world

Muhammad was the last and by far the greatest of a series of Prophets.

Introduction to Islam

[tkdgirl]

^^ Many religious scholars argue that all religion has one father: Abraham. There is a 'tree' published somewhere that shows the branching of religion from him. If I find it, I'll post it.

[snuffy]

I wasn't arguing about the ancient roots of Islam ... I was just saying the Persians who fought at Thermopylae did not practice Islam as a whole.

I know people have prob. with Wikipedia, thats why I always try to include a 2nd reference ... alright, I'm done.

[Novice]

The brothers were Issac (jewish) and Ishmael (muslim), both sons of Abraham.
Muslims believe that Abraham was the frist muslim in that the one god is both the jewish and muslim god & idol worship is not allowed.
Both regilions follow a legal system of "how to live" instead of the faith based religions where its just "what to believe" - which is why the food stuffs and certain clothing is so important to these religions, as it is part of both their religious identify and their faith.

"In the beginning of the seventh century, the Arab prophet, Muhammad, began to preach the word of Islam. Consumed with religious fervor, the Arabs sought to spread Islam and conquer the world. "

As these religions are over 1000 years old, and yet Sikhism and "Druidism" (made up by the Victorian Golden Dawn movement, supposedly based on what they thought should happen), can't they be classed as "old" religions?
Don't forget tree worship and the worship of animals.. oh, that's PETA isn't it, been around 20 years or so & believe in pushing their views on everyone around them? Back to Ms Bardot, I think...

[tkdgirl]

Originally Posted by snuffy

I wasn't arguing about the ancient roots of Islam ... I was just saying the Persians who fought at Thermopylae did not practice Islam as a whole.

I know people have prob. with Wikipedia, thats why I always try to include a 2nd reference ... alright, I'm done.

Cheers! Thanks for the explanation.

[Novice]

Originally Posted by snuffy

Persians

Thanks for that!
I've learnt today that Judaism started around the tie of the Sumerian states and predates Syria & Persia (and I'm not sure what the dark red bit is on the Babylonian time line is!).

[sputnik]

islam started with the prophet Muhammad in the 7th century. well, he was born at the end of the 6th century but was mainly active in the first 30 years of the 7th.

the persian culture existed long before then of course but the muslim religion didn't exist until the 7th century. persians (who were mostly zoroastrians) converted to islam with the arab invasion in the 7th or 8th century (can't remember), when a muslim emperor took over.

[ManxMouse]

Originally Posted by snuffy

^the Muslims culture will conquer all simply because they're gonna out breed everyone else.

Well then they just need to import some Mexicans into the region.

[Grimmlok]

Originally Posted by twitchy

So how's your pemmican?

Yes, welcome to the MODERN WORLD, not some bullshit 400 years ago. We know better now. Since we know better, we ought to act better.

Also, unlike the first nations, modern societies have the technology to fight back

[thrpschr]

Originally Posted by Charlotte

Certain tabloids are whipping up anti Muslim feelings in the UK, but if you look at the numbers in context it's all bullshit. Islam is the religion of less than 3% of the population, and it's roughly the same in France. It also doesn't take into account the amount who are actually practicing. Brits are not being 'outbred', nor are the French. Sure, Muslims may have more children, but the 'threat' has been totally over-exagerrated. Besides, most are peaceful, you do find Muslims in high-crime areas, but that's overwhelmingly to do with poverty rather than Islam.

As for Bardot: she's a known racist stirrer. An ex-advisor to the NF, who take great pleasure in whipping up hatred. Free speech isn't absolute, not in France, the UK or indeed the US. There are limits.

Tabloids in the UK have been complaining about immigrants for years now. The Daily Mail for instance did a scare-piece about Jews coming to the UK in the 30s. No mention of the fact that they were fleeing Hitler.

England is built on immigration. If all those with immigrant heritage were suddenly to leave the country would be left virtually empty. Does immigration change a culture? Sure it does, but it can change it in brilliant ways, enhancing it and making it stronger.

The UK is NOT being overrun, it is NOT going to disappear any time soon.

Thank you and amen! Europe has always had periods of immigration from other countries and cultures, and in the end it has usually benefited us. My own country, Sweden, is an excellent example of that - we imported Vallons from present-day Belgium in the 17th century because they were highly skilled smiths and metalworkers, I have some of them in my ancestry. In the 1950's and 1960's Greeks and Italians came here to work in the booming industry, and they are a perfectly natural part of our society today, as are the many South Americans who fled from military regimes and dictatorships in the 1970's, Iranians from the revolution and Kurds from persecution in Iran, Iraq and Turkey. Of course there are problems initially, but as things stand we will be needing all these people in the coming years - and we can afford it.

[thrpschr]

Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl

I learned a bit in college about the Islam ancient history.

Googled it now, and hit number 2 was this:

Many, if not most of the followers of Islam believe that:

Islam existed before Muhammad was born

The origins of Islam date back to the creation of the world

Muhammad was the last and by far the greatest of a series of Prophets.

Introduction to Islam

That's probably because Islam views both Abraham and Jesus as prophets, along with Muhammed. Islam as a separate religion definitely started with Muhammed in the 6th and 7th centuries, but it is based on Judaism, Christianity and other Abrahamic cults practiced around that time, and acknowledges the Torah and the Bible as holy texts along with the Koran, which is the final, most correct and complete installment of God's word, according to Islam. So neither the view that it's a comparatively new religion or that it is a very old one is wrong - it just depends on how you look at it.

[witchcurlgirl]

Originally Posted by thrpschr

That's probably because Islam views both Abraham and Jesus as prophets, along with Muhammed. Islam as a separate religion definitely started with Muhammed in the 6th and 7th centuries, but it is based on Judaism, Christianity and other Abrahamic cults practiced around that time, and acknowledges the Torah and the Bible as holy texts along with the Koran, which is the final, most correct and complete installment of God's word, according to Islam. So neither the view that it's a comparatively new religion or that it is a very old one is wrong - it just depends on how you look at it.

Yes, I am aware of these views regarding Islamic history.

A poster mentioned it but her point was being completely disregarded and slammed by other posters, and as it was something I had heard of before, I posted it.

Perhaps you should have addressed this to the posters that refused to consider the two different views on this.....and insisted that they were 100% correct.