Brigitte Bardot convicted of provoking hatred

[Grimmlok]

Yes, but Canada is something of an exception to the rule. In Toronto, it's a hugely diverse population and we all get along pretty well.. however, enclaves are starting to form where the populations within DO NOT have to assimilate at all.. i hope that stops.

One thing I love about Toronto are all the festivals we have celebrating all the diverse cultures. the food, the fashion, the music.. all summer long. That's what I mean about retaining your ethnic heritage and sharing it.. not locking yourself away in an enclave where you don't assimilate.

[tkdgirl]

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

There does come a point when the immigrant population does not assimilate into the country and culture they relocate into, and merely transplant their way of living, shoving the indigenous population off a cliff. Any immigrant SHOULD assimilate as best as he or she can, however still retain what cultural differences that make them unique in order to share such with the indigenous population (providing no conflict with established laws/social rules, etc). That's what can make a multicultural society so vibrant: one country, many homelands. The differences are what make life spicy.

Indigenous populations have a right to be pissed that they are being forced to accomodate immigrant 'demands' or 'special rights' or 'allowances' that have no place in the societal structure that is already established. A little leeway here and there is expected, as adjustments need to be made but outright non assimilation? Forget it. Assimilate or leave, otherwise it's a territorial fight for a way of life.

You can only be SO liberal with that kind of thing before you find yourself swamped and sidelined in your own country.

Dear God,

What has happened to Grimm? This sounds like something I would say. And everyone knows what a right-winged nutjob I am. God, I am confused. Please explain.

Sincerely yet befuddled,
tkd

------------------------------------------------

Grimm, you and I rarely agree on matters like this, but when we do agree, POW, it is spot on. Europe has a HUGE problem right now with the very things you've posted. The worst seems to be England. I bet the 300 Spartans (yes, I know there really weren't 300) are rolling in their graves knowing that the onslaught they prevented has now happened in a more politically correct fashion, and it threatening to rot Europe from its core.

I predict in 10 years time, England and France will no longer exist, to the extent that we know of it now, and what it has been historically.

I take the Australia view on this: if you can't assimilate into Aussie culture, and live by Aussie law, etc... CLEAR OFF.

[snuffy]

^the Muslims culture will conquer all simply because they're gonna out breed everyone else.

(and there were actually 300 Spartans at Thermopylae, but they were supported by ~2g Thebans, Thesbians, and Helots)

[tkdgirl]

Originally Posted by snuffy

^the Muslims culture will conquer all simply because they're gonna out breed everyone else.

(and there were actually 300 Spartans at Thermopylae, but they were supported by ~2g Thebans, Thesbians, and Helots)

There numbers were closer to a thousand, but when you're up against the numbers they were, yikes! Amazing to think they stopped the spread of Islam throughout Europe back then.

[TaffyMoon]

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

Yes, but Canada is something of an exception to the rule. In Toronto, it's a hugely diverse population and we all get along pretty well.. however, enclaves are starting to form where the populations within DO NOT have to assimilate at all.. i hope that stops.

One thing I love about Toronto are all the festivals we have celebrating all the diverse cultures. the food, the fashion, the music.. all summer long. That's what I mean about retaining your ethnic heritage and sharing it.. not locking yourself away in an enclave where you don't assimilate.

Me too, it's great living here!

PS: the battle of thermopolye(sp?) was Pre-christian and Pre-muslim - it was Greek against Persian.

[snuffy]

Originally Posted by tkdgirl

There numbers were closer to a thousand, but when you're up against the numbers they were, yikes! Amazing to think they stopped the spread of Islam throughout Europe back then.

There were about 4-5 g Greeks, but only 300 of them were Spartans of the warrior caste, and Persia wasn't conquered by Islam until 640 A.D. (C.E.) with the Battle of Nihawand, at Thermopylae they followed Zoroastrianism.

...but lets not start an off-topic argument. Go check it out.

Battle of Thermopylae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Greco-Persian Wars: Battle of Thermopylae » HistoryNet - From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher

[Sibyl]

Originally Posted by snuffy

^the Muslims culture will conquer all simply because they're gonna out breed everyone else.

Yeah and that's really sad.

[Novice]

Originally Posted by tkdgirl

Europe has a HUGE problem right now with the very things you've posted. The worst seems to be England. I bet the 300 Spartans (yes, I know there really weren't 300) are rolling in their graves knowing that the onslaught they prevented has now happened in a more politically correct fashion, and it threatening to rot Europe from its core.

I predict in 10 years time, England and France will no longer exist, to the extent that we know of it now, and what it has been historically.

I take the Australia view on this: if you can't assimilate into Aussie culture, and live by Aussie law, etc... CLEAR OFF.

*cough* just a thought.... England (and I specifically mean England and not the UK or Great Britain) has always had a flux of peoples, tho. Celts, Anglos, Vikings, Romans, Gauls, Normans, and in more recent times (i.e. my grandparents generation) Jews from lots of different countries in Europe, Germans, Austrians, more recently Polish workers; in the 60's & 70's Britain invited its Commonwealth countries to send workers to fill its skill shortage.
As a whole I think that Europe will be come even more homogenised to (try to) become an economic "super-power" and the peoples will mix much more freely as they did previously.

Anyone that thinks that Britain (correct usage) has become less tollerent should have been a European Jew in the 30s & 40s. My Grandfather worked against the Natzis, was sponsored to come here by an English Peer and was still put in a camp for the duration of the war! Despite having an arrest record for crimes against the state in Europe for trying to sabotage when they were up to.
As a family we do not speak Polish/Czec/German/French unless it was learnt in school because my Grandparents were afraid to speak it in their home because of what might be done to them.

Sorry for the long post & that this might look like a rant, however, this is not a new problem, and yes, I am on my soapbox due to having family that has died due to some f**ker not liking the way they killed a sheep. I know I'm not the only one on here with this heritage, but this stuff, esp out of the mouth of a mentally unstable yet high profile racist worries me.

[Charlotte]

Certain tabloids are whipping up anti Muslim feelings in the UK, but if you look at the numbers in context it's all bullshit. Islam is the religion of less than 3% of the population, and it's roughly the same in France. It also doesn't take into account the amount who are actually practicing. Brits are not being 'outbred', nor are the French. Sure, Muslims may have more children, but the 'threat' has been totally over-exagerrated. Besides, most are peaceful, you do find Muslims in high-crime areas, but that's overwhelmingly to do with poverty rather than Islam.

As for Bardot: she's a known racist stirrer. An ex-advisor to the NF, who take great pleasure in whipping up hatred. Free speech isn't absolute, not in France, the UK or indeed the US. There are limits.

Tabloids in the UK have been complaining about immigrants for years now. The Daily Mail for instance did a scare-piece about Jews coming to the UK in the 30s. No mention of the fact that they were fleeing Hitler.

England is built on immigration. If all those with immigrant heritage were suddenly to leave the country would be left virtually empty. Does immigration change a culture? Sure it does, but it can change it in brilliant ways, enhancing it and making it stronger.

The UK is NOT being overrun, it is NOT going to disappear any time soon.

[tkdgirl]

Originally Posted by TaffyMoon

Me too, it's great living here!

PS: the battle of thermopolye(sp?) was Pre-christian and Pre-muslim - it was Greek against Persian.

Not true. Islam is one of the oldest religions in the world. It shares a common origin with Judaism. It does predate Christianity but the battle of Thermopolye certainly does not predate Islam.

[tkdgirl]

Originally Posted by Novice

*cough* just a thought.... England (and I specifically mean England and not the UK or Great Britain) has always had a flux of peoples, tho. Celts, Anglos, Vikings, Romans, Gauls, Normans, and in more recent times (i.e. my grandparents generation) Jews from lots of different countries in Europe, Germans, Austrians, more recently Polish workers; in the 60's & 70's Britain invited its Commonwealth countries to send workers to fill its skill shortage.
As a whole I think that Europe will be come even more homogenised to (try to) become an economic "super-power" and the peoples will mix much more freely as they did previously.

Anyone that thinks that Britain (correct usage) has become less tollerent should have been a European Jew in the 30s & 40s. My Grandfather worked against the Natzis, was sponsored to come here by an English Peer and was still put in a camp for the duration of the war! Despite having an arrest record for crimes against the state in Europe for trying to sabotage when they were up to.
As a family we do not speak Polish/Czec/German/French unless it was learnt in school because my Grandparents were afraid to speak it in their home because of what might be done to them.

Sorry for the long post & that this might look like a rant, however, this is not a new problem, and yes, I am on my soapbox due to having family that has died due to some f**ker not liking the way they killed a sheep. I know I'm not the only one on here with this heritage, but this stuff, esp out of the mouth of a mentally unstable yet high profile racist worries me.

I'm not saying England isn't being tolerant. Quite the opposite. They are, to an extent, being over accommodating. I've read enough stories out of England with regard to the dramatic increase in the number of 'radical' Muslim views and crap that goes on in Mosques that it really concerns me.

[Novice]

Originally Posted by tkdgirl

I'm not saying England isn't being tolerant. Quite the opposite. They are, to an extent, being over accommodating. I've read enough stories out of England with regard to the dramatic increase in the number of 'radical' Muslim views and crap that goes on in Mosques that it really concerns me.

Sorry, its my own personal soapbox! As you can understand I get a bit heated over this, you escape death to be treated like shit in a country that invited you over....

Mmm... radical muslims.... I lived a couple of streets away from some of the guys arrested for the London bombings. The whole area had changes in atmosphere in the 10 years that I had a house there. Lastly there was a big (and getting bigger) divide of whites and muslins; whereas the muslims in the UK have always generally been relatively un-extreme, there is a swing to the "right" for both parties. I think that the cause is poverty and a culture of more violence, but it could be a "chicken & egg" situation with the more violence / more extremism.
Incidently, do you guys hear that the Council of Muslims calls for tollerence and understanding whenever these media reports surface (and frequently distances itself from the "extremists")? Maybe not so news-worthy?

Also, I was shopping in Bradford when the Salman Rushti book was burnt in the late 80's. I'd actually being in that street a couple of times that afternoon (Bradford isn't that big!); and I saw no book burning, and only a peaceful gathering of people objecting to the book. When I saw the media reports, all the guys on it are late teens - early 20s. It hit me then how much the media manipulates stuff, or only chooses to report what it wishes.

[snuffy]

Originally Posted by tkdgirl

Not true. Islam is one of the oldest religions in the world. It shares a common origin with Judaism. It does predate Christianity but the battle of Thermopolye certainly does not predate Islam.

Completely wrong ... but I don't expect you to listen so lets drop it.

Zoroastrianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Persians

[tkdgirl]

Originally Posted by Novice

Sorry, its my own personal soapbox! As you can understand I get a bit heated over this, you escape death to be treated like shit in a country that invited you over....

Mmm... radical muslims.... I lived a couple of streets away from some of the guys arrested for the London bombings. The whole area had changes in atmosphere in the 10 years that I had a house there. Lastly there was a big (and getting bigger) divide of whites and muslins; whereas the muslims in the UK have always generally been relatively un-extreme, there is a swing to the "right" for both parties. I think that the cause is poverty and a culture of more violence, but it could be a "chicken & egg" situation with the more violence / more extremism.
Incidently, do you guys hear that the Council of Muslims calls for tollerence and understanding whenever these media reports surface (and frequently distances itself from the "extremists")? Maybe not so news-worthy?

Also, I was shopping in Bradford when the Salman Rushti book was burnt in the late 80's. I'd actually being in that street a couple of times that afternoon (Bradford isn't that big!); and I saw no book burning, and only a peaceful gathering of people objecting to the book. When I saw the media reports, all the guys on it are late teens - early 20s. It hit me then how much the media manipulates stuff, or only chooses to report what it wishes.

Its interesting you mention the ages, because that's where (worldwide) the largest number of new 'Wahabbist' Muslims are coming from. Young. Male. Discontented. Impoverished. When a group of people is down and out, and searching for answers, they are ripe for the wrong kinds of influence. The same thing is happening in France. The work riots were primarily young men.

That's why Grimm's post is so relevant.

[tkdgirl]

Originally Posted by snuffy

Completely wrong ... but I don't expect you to listen so lets drop it.

Zoroastrianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Persians

Yes, I know all about Zonoastrianism. It is an ancient religion as well, and is still practiced (secretively) in Iran. And my reply was to Taffy Moon.

And just so you know, I don't ever use Wikipedia as a reference. Any publicly maintained should always be read with a great deal of skepticism. Not everything on the internet is true, ya know. Even Wiki.

And yes, Islam has the same roots are Judiasm. Both religions can be traced back to Abraham. So sorry, this time, you are wrong. But let's drop it.