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Thread: Bombshell Scientology Film: Alex Gibney on Cruise, Travolta and 'The Prison of Belief

  1. #31
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    I saw it last night. Basically it's everything you've ever read about, all the high-level church defectors were interviewed at length.

    It was super creepy in the way it's always been. Cruise and Miscavige footage of them being megalomaniac creepy, the Nazi-like ceremonies on stage with FIREWORKS and LASERS! when the IRS gave in to their harrassment and declared them a church for tax-exempt status.

    Btw, I lay the blame largely on the IRS for Scientology being so untouchable. If they'd never given them church status I think they may not have gotten away with so much shit.

    The testimonies of the ex-members was really good. The poor lady who used to be Travolta's church minder was sent to the prison for disagreeing with the church. Then she saw her infant daughter in horrible condition after she was taken by the church: she said her eyes were glued shut from mucus, she had flies all over her, she was left to sit in a urine soaked crib. Horrifying shit. She took her kid and was able to escape.
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    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    They are a church though based on the definition allowed by law. We need to look at the laws. Too many "churches" are tax exempt BIG businesses.
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  3. #33
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    They were initially under review by the IRS to see whether or not they really were a church. If the IRS hadn't caved under the pressure of numerous lawsuits filed by church individuals, they might have nipped the whole thing in the bud and denied them church status, curbing that abuse by big businesses. The laws defining legitimate churches need reform and Scientology is an excellent case to make an example of that very thing.
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  4. #34
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    Leah Remini Applauds Going Clear Filmmakers, Calls Scientology Documentary "Brave"

    Speaking up, and being heard loud and clear. Three months after premiering at Sundance, Going Clear, the controversial Alex Gibney documentary examining the Church of Scientology, aired in primetime on HBO, and former Scientologist Leah Remini is applauding Gibney's efforts.

    Famously leaving the church in 2013 for the sake of her daughter, Sofia — who was approaching the age when children begin the auditing process — Remini commended Gibney and the Going Clear filmmakers for blowing the lid off the secretive organization.

    "Thank you to the brave who did something about it. And to those who didn't have a voice, you do now," the former King of Queens actress, 44, tweeted Sunday.

    In the bombshell documentary, Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief, former members of the Church (including writer/director Paul Haggis) recount with chilling detail the past abuse, blackmail, and threats they were subjected to while members. The two-hour film also alleges that the Church branded star member Tom Cruise's then-wife Nicole Kidman as a P.T.S. (Potential Trouble Source), and tapped her phone in case she spoke to non-members about her marriage. Members also convinced the couple's children, Isabella and Connor, to turn against their mom so that Cruise would have a better case for custody. Cruise declined to be interviewed for Going Clear.

    Prior to Going Clear's HBO broadcast, Haggis Instagrammed a message of support to Gibney and the filmmakers. "So proud of those who stood up despite the consequences," he wrote.

    The Church has already mounted its defense against Going Clear's filmmakers, calling Gibney's work a "bigoted propaganda piece" with "at least one major error every two minutes," according to a five-page letter submitted to The Hollywood Reporter earlier this month.

    “You know, there's a doctrine in the church called 'fair game,' which means that if there are critics of the church, it’s fair game to go after them in any way you can to slander them," Gibney — whose request to interview Scientology head David Miscavige was declined — said in an interview on CNN's Reliable Sources. "It's interesting to me that a church, which is a religious organization in theory, would spend so much time trying to provoke hatred."

    Read more: Leah Remini Speaks Out About Controversial Scientology Doc Going Clear - Us Weekly
    Follow us: @usweekly on Twitter | usweekly on Facebook
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  5. #35
    Elite Member Nevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderpig View Post
    Fascinating. BTW, didn't Tommy Davis disappear awhile ago? The story circulating was that he was in retreat in Texas or something.
    I swear I remember reading that Tommy was in The Hole for some transgression. The church hasn't had a spokesperson for a while now. And Miscavige is so terrified of being interviewed by anyone ... I think that speaks volumes about him. Always wants the upper hand and have his answers/speeches neatly typed on cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    They are a church though based on the definition allowed by law. We need to look at the laws. Too many "churches" are tax exempt BIG businesses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    They were initially under review by the IRS to see whether or not they really were a church. If the IRS hadn't caved under the pressure of numerous lawsuits filed by church individuals, they might have nipped the whole thing in the bud and denied them church status, curbing that abuse by big businesses. The laws defining legitimate churches need reform and Scientology is an excellent case to make an example of that very thing.
    I may be recalling wrong, but I believe towards the beginning when they were talking at length about the IRS "war", they said Co$ wasn't considered a church because they did NOT substantially give donated funds to charity or to help the community (I believe there was a specific word, I just can't remember). They used their donations to build wealth and buy expensive real estate, which specifically excluded them tax exempt status. Beeyotch is completely right that the Co$ is the total fault of the IRS and their buckling under the pressure (like exposes about how the government was paying for the liquor at banquets and stupid stuff like that). Without having to pay taxes on all those huge "donations", a beast was allowed to grow to epic proportions.

    I was so-so about this documentary. I realize I know more than the average citizen about Co$ because of my addiction to web surfing, but I surely am no expert on this cult. When I know more than this big documentary that's supposed to blow the lid off the "church", I feel cheated. And the stuff I'm talking about is ALL over the web (and even here) ... Shelly Miscavige having not been seen in forever, Kathleen's "accidental" death, allegations that Cruise has beat members, all the stuff that LRH outright lied about his past, his firstborn son who walked in on his father trying to give his mother an abortion (and that guy's got all sorts of great stories, that's just a slight taste), etc. They alluded to LRH saying that the way you can realllllly make money is by starting a church, but there's an actual person (I believe a fellow sci-fi writer) that witnessed that statement ... it would have made more of a punch to put an actual name to it. And I was really disappointed that after all the bitching LRH did about the mental health industry, they didn't even get into the fact that he was heavily sedated with tranquilizers at the time of his death. I mean, that's public record .... no digging for that. I wasn't impressed. Maybe it will get a wider audience because it's HBO, but to me, that's not worth all the shit this guy is going to get from the Co$ after this. He didn't really reveal anything that couldn't have been found with a simple Google search.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    They were initially under review by the IRS to see whether or not they really were a church. If the IRS hadn't caved under the pressure of numerous lawsuits filed by church individuals, they might have nipped the whole thing in the bud and denied them church status, curbing that abuse by big businesses. The laws defining legitimate churches need reform and Scientology is an excellent case to make an example of that very thing.
    What truly astonished me: Photos of the 'Church' leadership and fucking IRS agents CELEBRATING together after their recognition as a religious entity was approved, were blown-up and proudly displayed during the Co$ Nuremberg-esque victory rally. That, and the fact that L. Ron 'accidentally' bombed a Mexican island during his WWII service, and was subsequently relieved of duty...

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    I kind of agree Nevan, I was hoping for more info as well. A lot of it was just regurgitated.
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  8. #38
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    I'll check it out.
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  9. #39
    Gold Member Linne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTaleOfWoe View Post
    What truly astonished me: Photos of the 'Church' leadership and fucking IRS agents CELEBRATING together after their recognition as a religious entity was approved, were blown-up and proudly displayed during the Co$ Nuremberg-esque victory rally. That, and the fact that L. Ron 'accidentally' bombed a Mexican island during his WWII service, and was subsequently relieved of duty...
    I've never heard of that. All the stuff mentioned here I've read before. They could make a series of documentations of all the shit that CO$ has done and would not run out of material. I can't believe that they are not shut down, its surreal.
    Last edited by Linne; March 31st, 2015 at 03:22 AM.
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.

  10. #40
    Gold Member Linne's Avatar
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    I couldn't add the images but this came to my newsfeed few moments ago:

    https://thenib.com/the-scientology-fun-page-5d361cf5891e
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.

  11. #41
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    I was reading a bunch of anti-CO$ websites after watching the show and it seems to indicate that Tommy and his wife are living in Austin. She's a realtor. Goes by her married name, Jessica Davis. Wonder if Tommy and the church have quietly parted ways? Tommy's mom seems to be still pretty involved, so who knows. We'd never get a straight answer from the CO$.
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  12. #42
    Elite Member Nevan's Avatar
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    Whatever they may say publicly about their numbers, especially among high profile members, they can't hide the fact that they've lost a LOT of their members in the last 5-10 years, again especially the high profile ones. None of the them really shocked me, except Tommy Davis. He was die hard, realllllly die hard and was born into it IIRC. And it's really hard for a company (because let's say the truth, this is no church) to lose a long time spokesperson ... that's the face of that company. I wonder how he escaped the clutches and I wonder what his real life is like right now ... if he's being watched, threatened, etc. I wonder if his mom was made to call him an SP and drop all contact. Out of the celebrities, I think Cruise will never leave ... this is where he gets all his ego boosts and he seems to severely need that in his life (which speaks volumes). The one I can't figure out is John. He's been living so on the edge of homosexuality that no one is even flummoxed when a new allegation comes out. He lost his son (and he is one of the few celebrities that I think truly puts his kids before fame and everything else in his heart), and he's got to admit to himself that it was at least partially because of his religion. Why does he stay? Everyone knows he's gay (and a bit of a predator) and wears a rug and his kid was autistic/epileptic (although I don't think Co$ believes in those, do they?), what else do they have on him? Cruise I could care less about, but Travolta I've always had a bit of a soft spot for even though he's a clam. I wish he'd just walk away, be gay and bald and enjoy the two kids he has left.

  13. #43
    Elite Member nwgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    They are a church though based on the definition allowed by law. We need to look at the laws. Too many "churches" are tax exempt BIG businesses.
    Not 100% sure but I think "churches" fall under the 501c3 blanket, correct? If so, I def think that designation needs major overhaul. There are so many "organizations" operating under that designation who give paltry, paltry percentages of their takes to the actual cause or organization they're formed for. Board members receive huge compensation packages and almost zero money goes anywhere but their pockets. It's disgusting.
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    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    The doc quoted heavily from the journals of Hubbard's first wife who wrote that "he said many times" he wanted to start a religion to make money, so they didn't need to dig up that other sci-fi writer who claimed he heard it at a poker game.

    As for why Travolta stays: the gossip is that he was ready to bolt after his son's death when he realized that Co$ "treatments" for his son had been complete bullshit and denying his son treatment for years resulted in his death. But then Kelly Preston (who is fucking frightening tbh) allegedly went and got some of Travolta's sperm that had been in a bank and got inseminated with their other kid to keep him in. With another son on the way, and with the risk that Kelly would take the kids and disconnect, he caved.

    Also, Scientology celebrities are very sheltered. I believe Travolta may be clueless at how widespread the gay rumors are. He'll only get feedback from the "church" that everyone believes he's a big strong hetero with a blazing career.
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  15. #45
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    He lost his son (and he is one of the few celebrities that I think truly puts his kids before fame and everything else in his heart),
    Maybe compared to other Co$bots, but from what I've read he puts himself before his children and always has. The whole family life revolves around his timetable and because he's an insomniac and likes to go ride his golf buggy around at midnight or whatever, the kids are made to stay up with him and fit in with his bullshit schedule, sometimes not going to bed until 5.00 am.

    Or at least that's how it was when Jett was alive, which probably wasn't an ideal situation for a kid with so many issues.

    And Tommy Davis' wife is the former Jessica Feshbach (sp?) who was Katiebot's minder in the early part of the sham marriage, and came from a wealthy and influential Co$ family. So if they've both blown that would be huge.
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