Angelina Jolie surfaces in Baghdad

[msdebagain]

the one thing that pleased me about this, is she didnt bring her children.

[Bellatheball]

Except the unborn one....

[sluce]

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

^^ There are many like her and they don't get applauded. That's the point.

There are idealistic, young doctors who live in Dafur 365 days a year and hardly get any pay. There are development aid workers who dedicate their lives. There are journalists who get kidnapped, shot. These poeple HATE Angelina Jolie.

They are real heroes, I applaud them. Anyone who decides to admire Angelina instead is a dimwit who is easily manipulated.

She draws the attention to herself and nothing but herself. She doesn't help anyone, inform anyone or anything else.

When she visist these countries she stays in nice hotels, wears designer clothes and brings her glam squad along.

The money she donates is a joke, she still owns a private jet and half a dozen mansions.

Angelina's extreme wealth is FOUNDED on the misery of people in the third world, her pretending to be their savior is an insult. She also is an insult to anyone who dedicated his life to development aid without cameras following him around.

What further infuriates me is that because of her, people are led to believe that development aid is some kind of fieldtrip. "Please bring your Malonos and you're good to go". That's a misconception.

If you think that Angelina does development aid, then you simply have no clue.

Wow - you are so naive if you think that everyone needs to feel the same as you do based on your opinions. You then go on to insult people and imply they lack intellect because they dare to have their own opinions. I personally know a lot of relief workers, including my brother, who have been going to Iraq and Afghanistan for the last 5 years. They are THRILLED she and others go there and bring press. They are realistic enough to know that their hard work will never get the same attention since they are not famous. They are not doing it for gratitude or attention. They know that each time she or another celebrity does a press tour donations go way up and they stand a better chance of getting the supplies they need to keep people alive.

Your statement that her wealth is FOUNDED on the misery of people in third world countries is absolute bullshit. We all know where her wealth is from and we know she donates a lot of it to the causes she supports. She has planes and big houses. So what? Many wealthy people have all the trappings of wealth and still donate a greater percentage of their income than most of us do.

Perhaps you are the one who has no clue.

I don't give a shit if you don't like Angie because she is a man stealing brother fucker, yada yada yada. It seems that you are unable to look past your intense dislike for her and see the bigger picture. If she and all other celebrities refused to use their names and faces, the causes will suffer. Personally, I would rather see her in Iraq getting press and know that my brother and his fellow relief workers will maybe get what they need to do their job.

[cmmdee]

Kudos to her.
Love her eyeliner.
Hate her chapped lips. I wonder if Chapstick sends her free samples. They should!

[Novice]

Originally Posted by gas_chick

These people and our US Troops seem very grateful to know that they are not forgotten about and Angelina and other celebrities taking time from their lives when they don't have to does brighten their days. Most of the people in these countries probably don't even know who Angelina or other celebrities are but they can recognize a friendly face and someone who took the time to come and interact with them.

Please do not think that I don't respect your opinion, because I do agree with you in some senses. Yes, a lot of the forces enjoy the visits from the "celebrities" whom-ever they are.

However, my ex was one of the guy detailed with protecting them as they traveled around, it makes them a much bigger target and puts them all in a lot more danger than is necessary as such a target would be see as a big "win" for the anti-west factions.

A lot of money and resources are spent on keeping these people safe, and when guys in the British Army are buying flak jackets from American's going home because the British Army hasn't supplied them due to lack of funds - I'm sure it's not just the Brits that suffered from lack of money or funds being channeled into "other" areas - I am offended that money is channeled into these areas.

OK, so kudos for bringing it to everyone's attention (although if people don't know that there is a war going on in Iraq that was originally started in 1990 I fail to see why they might be interested now); however she (and every other celebrity & politician) could have done this in a much, much better, cost effective, safer way.
Of all the travels to these "war-torn" areas that are unsafe to visit, no-one thinks of the guys that have to stand between them & the bullets, when it all kicks off - and the expense to keep these people safe is obscene given the current spending policies.

Now I have a plane to catch! I'll just jump off my soapbox, first....

[Chilly Willy]

Originally Posted by sluce

Wow - you are so naive if you think that everyone needs to feel the same as you do based on your opinions. You then go on to insult people and imply they lack intellect because they dare to have their own opinions.

I insulted you, because your opinion differs from mine? Phew, glad you told me, because I wasn't aware of that. Did I call you naive? Well, I apologize. Other than that, I suggest that you calm down.

Originally Posted by sluce

I personally know a lot of relief workers, including my brother, who have been going to Iraq and Afghanistan for the last 5 years. They are THRILLED she and others go there and bring press. They are realistic enough to know that their hard work will never get the same attention since they are not famous.

I know development aid workers who told me exact difference. They hate her ass for taking credit for work they have been doing for years. She takes attention away that should be given to better people and better organizations. Médicins sans Frontières are much more effective, for instance. Why doesn't she support those instead? Well, they don't give away fancy titles like "goodwill ambassador".

Among others, Angelina promotes UNICEF. Among development aid workers, that organization is known to be slow to react to crisis. They are also known to waste money. Up to 70% of the money they raise is spent on administration. As a matter of fact, UNICEF is involved in a huge financial scandal in Europe at the moment.

I myself have volunteered as a relief worker in Sri Lanka after the tsunami and UNICEF was nowhere in sight. Everywhere I went in the third world, people complained about the same things. Maybe I just met the wrong people, because you obviously know better.

Originally Posted by sluce

They are not doing it for gratitude or attention. They know that each time she or another celebrity does a press tour donations go way up and they stand a better chance of getting the supplies they need to keep people alive.

I never said that relief workers wanted gratitude and attention, did I? Obviuosly not. This not about attention to individuals, it is about attention to the cause. Angelina only draws attention to herself. What is it that you have learned about Iraq from Angelina? She transports no information to the masses.

In the long run, poverty and the resulting refugee flows will not be stopped, because some sentimental Angelina fan drops a dollar here and there. It's about awareness. Only if the first world is informed about these things and learns about its own involvement in the situation (which you can deny all you want), these people will be helped.

Originally Posted by sluce

Your statement that her wealth is FOUNDED on the misery of people in third world countries is absolute bullshit. We all know where her wealth is from and we know she donates a lot of it to the causes she supports. She has planes and big houses. So what? Many wealthy people have all the trappings of wealth and still donate a greater percentage of their income than most of us do.

Oh and her wealth is not found on the poverty of the third world? Our entire economy is based on the poverty and exploitation of the third world. The higher your income, the guiltier you are. That's a global fact of life. The super rich can only be super rich, because there are others who are super poor. Sorry, but that's 9th grade politics, you shouldn't call it bullshit, just because you don't know about it.

Originally Posted by sluce

Perhaps you are the one who has no clue.

Perhaps that's true. Perhaps everything political scientists have been telling us for the past 30 years is untrue. Perhaps you're some kind of international politics genius who found out that none of us has a clue!

Originally Posted by sluce

I don't give a shit if you don't like Angie because she is a man stealing brother fucker, yada yada yada. It seems that you are unable to look past your intense dislike for her and see the bigger picture. If she and all other celebrities refused to use their names and faces, the causes will suffer. Personally, I would rather see her in Iraq getting press and know that my brother and his fellow relief workers will maybe get what they need to do their job.

I don't give a shit about Angelina's private life. I care about the third world and development aid an that is the reasons she pisses me off. And I'm even more aggravated by those who admire her and put her on a pedestal and call her a saint and a hero.

[january]

I agree with your points 100% Chilly, for what its worth. As far as "raising awareness" what does she bring to the table? A photo opportunity? Because she sure as hell has no idea of what she speaks. When she is speaking, it is quite apparent that she has no idea what is going on in these areas (except for "its a very bad thing") or what can be done in terms of solutions. She really offers nothing, and since she gives nothing in terms of explanation, what kind of awareness can she really be raising? Thats what I don't understand. You have to be borderline mentally handicapped to not know whats going on in Iraq right now.

Chilly, I have read documentation before, and I think I read that MORE than 70% of their donations are spent on administration. It is truly unbelievable. I dislike UNICEF, and I dislike the celebrities that promote them without any clue of what they are actually supporting. Of course, those same celebrities get a hefty paycheck for "raising awareness" so sure, whatever. UNICEF is a joke where I live.

Even if she is "raising awareness" I do not buy for one second that she is doing it for purely altruistic reasons. I do not understand how what she does could be called humanitarian work, its easy enough and she doesn't need to get her hands dirty. And its excellent PR for her. So kudos to the project if somehow something along the way is helped, but I'm not going to pat her on the back personally. And it has NOTHING to do with her private life, I could care less about that. All of these celebrities that are "goodwill ambassadors" make me roll my eyes.

[sluce]

Give with Confidence :: U.S. Fund for UNICEF - UNICEF USA

Sorry but Unicef has been given a 4 star rating by Charity Navigator and 86% of donations went right to programs for children. You can download their entire annual report from the link above.

Chilly and January - we will always disagree on this. You will make your points and I and other can then argue right back with other valid points. We will just have to agree to disagree and hopefully continue to contribute our own finances and time to help these important causes.

[Chilly Willy]

^^ Sorry, but that is untrue. The figure I have heard and read repeatedly is around 70% of money that UNICEF collects that does NOT go where it belongs.

Apart from that:

Current UNICEF scandal in Germany (front page news right now):

UNICEF concerned over donations scandal, loss of trust at German national branch - International Herald Tribune

Past accusations:

NCPA International Issues - UNICEF ANOTHER UNITED NATIONS BOONDOGGLE

Everyone in development aid says this. I didn't make it up.

If Angelina really cared about the cause more than about getting her face in the paper (in a POSITIVE context), she would have done some reading.

I donated about ten bucks to UNICEF ca. 15 years ago. Ever since I have gotten a huge package of Christmas cards EVERY year - estimated cost: twice the money I donated.

[gas_chick]

I'd be willing to wager that every single charitable organization in existence has it's problems. It is the point of whether you are a celebrity or not that you are trying to help people in your own way which is exactly what Angelina is trying to do. I'll give her props for going to a country that I would never think about visting because I'd be too scared even though I know there are people in need. Celebrities do help bring in money for their causes and Angelina and Brad have proven time and again they will put their own money up for charities they believe in. I'm sorry I can't find fault in that.

[sluce]

Chilly - It is unfortunate if Unicef is having problems in Germany. (I don't have time to read the articles until later to see the details. Have to get some work done today in case all hell breaks loose with Brit soon!) That does not mean the entire organization is having problems.

[Mel1973]

Originally Posted by pacific breeze

People like Brad and Angie are followed by the paps nonstop. They don't HAVE to pimp their kids out -- the paps are only to happy to make big bucks off them doing that. I remember one time at GR when everybody was screaming for their heads for "allowing" pics of their kids at a birthday party, And of course, their crime was to be spied on with telephoto lenses by the paps. Here's a thought -- some mags refuse to use photos taken with telephoto lenses, or photos of celebs' kids. Only buy those mags, only support legit publications. That will stop the paps soon enough and amazingly, Brangelina's "pimping" will be dramatically reduced.

are you honestly saying that you don't think they have ever sold photos of any of their children?

Originally Posted by Calimaster

I don't see how anyone can down someone for giving of their time and resources to those in need, period. Angie has been donating her money, and putting herself in danger traveling to third world countries and refugee camps for years. Many journalists and reporters have travelled to these places and have been ambushed and lost their lives, so I give her props for her courage and unselfishness in her quest to help others.

If she were only doing it for the publicity and attention and her motives were not sincere, I'm sure she could easily find better things to do, like most of these Hollywood types who would rather relax in their mansions on the hill, oblivious to the suffering and poverty in the world because its not their problem. At least Angelina tries and I applaud her, and it would be a blessing if there were more like her.

and how many times have we seen articles claiming that AJ and BP promise money to charities & then don't pay up. ..

Originally Posted by msdebagain

the one thing that pleased me about this, is she didnt bring her children.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Bellatheball

Except the unborn one....

or two

Originally Posted by gas_chick

I'd be willing to wager that every single charitable organization in existence has it's problems. It is the point of whether you are a celebrity or not that you are trying to help people in your own way which is exactly what Angelina is trying to do. I'll give her props for going to a country that I would never think about visting because I'd be too scared even though I know there are people in need. Celebrities do help bring in money for their causes and Angelina and Brad have proven time and again they will put their own money up for charities they believe in. I'm sorry I can't find fault in that.

no, the point seems to be if anyone has anything "negative" to say against aj they are blasphemers... as usual. you can talk about any celebrity but her because she's so fukking wonderful...

[gas_chick]

As a lurker and eventual member I must say the people that bash Angelina outnumber the people that don't 5 to 1.

[Mel1973]

No way. It's usually pretty evenly matched.. it just always seems like you're outnumbered... it usually seems to me that there are more people on here who defend/support her than those who disagree/bash her..

eta - I just went back and looked & we basically have 9 for, 9 "bashers" and 2 or 3 "who cares"

[mistify]

Originally Posted by SSDiva

You know what you people talk bad about her out with her kids taking pictures, out with Brad taking pictures...however, you dismiss all the good work she has done and do as a Goodwill Ambassador. She doesn't have to do it, she isn't getting paid for it, and guess what she still does it!! Very Unselfish!! She could've kept up her crap from her early twenties, but she grew up in a big way! Her travels for the UN led to her adopting Maddox...

And praying for someone to get killed is wrong!! I mean damn how low can one go!!

only because she is sainted..

Lots of people are wished dead here everyday umm hello, Britney, etc.. and that being said she makes me want to throw up.. Yay she does good stuff for the world,but who wouldn't if they made millions a movie? Believe me if I had that bitches money I would do alot more.. I guarantee.. I already do charity and am poor. SHE IS A BIG FUCKING MEDIA WHORE..