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Thread: Celebrity Anti-Vaxx Thread

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    Default Celebrity Anti-Vaxx Thread

    I am seeing more & more “celebrities” being anti-vaxx so I figured have one thread to keep the idiocy in one place.



    Eric Clapton thinks he can change the world— or at least the world’s perception of COVID-19 vaccines.
    The 76-year-old rocker — who has repeatedly railed against the vaccines and associated mandates in recent months — has now helped bankroll an anti-vax band, Rolling Stone reported.



    According to the publication, Clapton donated £1,000 ($1,360) to British rockers Jam For Freedom through a GoFundMe set up to help pay for legal fees they incurred after “breaching COVID regulations” at a gig.
    Jam For Freedom has been playing shows across the UK in recent months, blasting the COVID shots in their songs. One of their tracks features the lyric: “You can stick your poison vaccine up your arse.”
    Jam For Freedom’s founding member, Cambel McLaughlin, 27, told Rolling Stone he thought he was being pranked when he saw the money come through from Clapton, so he sent an email to an account associated with the donation.
    “I’m like, ‘This could be fake,'” McLaughlin told the publication, before revealing that he subsequently received a text from the “Wonderful Tonight” singer.
    “It was something complimentary, along the lines of, ‘Hey, it’s Eric — great work you’re doing.'”
    The pair later spoke over the phone, and Clapton purportedly agreed to lend Jam For Freedom a six-person VW Transporter van so that they could drive around to gigs.
    Jam For Freedom’s social media accounts feature this photo of Clapton cozying up to band member Cambel McLaughlin.Jam For Freedom TwitterAccording to McLaughlin, Clapton later gave the rebellious rockers “a chunk of money” to buy their own van outright.
    Jam For Freedom’s Instagram accountfeatures a photo of Clapton cozying up to McLaughlin, who captioned the snap: “THANK YOU @ericclapton for lending us your bus to continue our tour🙏 We WILL continue your legacy of live music!”
    Clapton has not yet publicly responded to McLaughlin’s story to confirm whether it is accurate.
    However, in recent months, the “Layla” crooner has been making headlines for publicly criticizing the coronavirus vaccine.
    Clapton (pictured in 2019) has repeatedly railed against COVID vaccines in recent months.RedfernsBack in May, Clapton claimed he suffered a “disastrous” reaction to the AstraZeneca jab.
    “My hands and feet were either frozen, numb or burning, and pretty much useless for two weeks, I feared I would never play again,” he wrote in a letter to anti-lockdown activists.
    Clapton added that he “should’ve never gone near the needle” due to his “peripheral neuropathy,” but “propaganda said the vaccine was safe for everyone.





    “I continue to tread the path of passive rebellion and try to tow the line in order to be able to actively love my family, but it’s hard to bite my tongue with what I now know,” he continued.
    Since that time, Clapton has become even more outspoken against vaccines.
    In July, he publicly announced his refusal to perform in any venues that require guests to have been vaccinated against COVID-19.
    However, it was revealed last month that Clapton did a show at New Orleans’ Smoothie King Center, where — in accordance with city regulations — all staff and attendees over the age of 12 are required to show proof of at least their first COVID-19 vaccine shot or be able to present a negative coronavirus test taken in the past 72 hours.

    https://nypost.com/2021/10/11/eric-c...m-for-freedom/
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    Anti-Vaxx Celebrities Are Coming Out of the Woodwork

    By Danielle Cohen


    Photo-Illustration: The Cut; Photos: Getty Images


    Nicki Minaj appears to have broken the dam on celebrity anti-vaccine sentiment. Following a series of tweets in which Minaj expressed skepticism of the vaccine rooted largely in misinformation concerning her cousin’s friend’s balls, supermodel Doutzen Kroes apparently felt empowered to share a post of her own announcing that she would not be getting a COVID-19 vaccine. Upon returning from a months-long social-media fast, the former Victoria’s Secret angel posted a photo of herself in sepia with a lengthy caption defending her right to forgo the shot.



    “I can no longer turn a blind eye to the injustice that is happening in front of us,” Kroes wrote. “Although my hands are shaking while writing this, I feel it is time to choose courage over comfort and speak my truth.” She continued, “I will not be forced to take the shot. I will not be forced to prove my health to participate in society. I will not accept exclusion of people based on their medical status.”
    Kroes’s post fails to mention that the FDA and the CDC have declared the vaccines safe and effective, with both entities strongly urging everyone over the age of 12 to get the shot. Nor does it acknowledge the fact that vaccines help curb the spread of COVID-19 through communities, keeping both the vaccinated and those who cannot yet be vaccinated safer.
    Kroes wrapped up by declaring that “freedom of speech is a right worth fighting for” and by urging her followers to “pass on the torch of hope and love and speak your truth.” At least one fellow supermodel has come out of the woodwork to defend Kroes’s right to free speech: Gisele Bündchen, who, lest you forget, feeds her children dehydrated spirulina fruit rolls. After the backlash to Kroes’s post began, Bündchen commented, “I know Doutzen and she is a kind and loving person. I can’t believe the hate being directed at her because she expressed her feelings.”
    While it’s unclear whether or not Bündchen is vaccinated (per NFL protocol, her husband, Tom Brady, is), Kroes is certainly not alone in her skepticism. According to The Hollywood Reporter, actress Letitia Wright espoused anti-vaxx views while filming Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. In December, Wright also shared a YouTuber’s hour-long anti-vaccine video to her Twitter account, which led to the actress quietly parting ways with her team of reps in the U.S. (Wright later deleted the tweet and issued a statement saying, “My intention was not to hurt anyone, my ONLY intention of posting the video was it raised my concerns with what the vaccine contains and what we are putting in our bodies. Nothing else.” Again, evidence overwhelmingly shows that the vaccines are safe and effective).



    THR’s recent report also mentions an unnamed, unvaccinated “high-profile actor” who was hospitalized with COVID after allegedly making anti-vaxx comments on set. Though there is speculation about who that actor is, plenty of other celebrities have openly confirmed their stance against the vaccine. Comedian Rob Schneider, rapper Offset, Anwar Hadid, LaKeith Stanfield, and professional white boy Chet Hanks have all expressed various anti-vaccine sentiments over the past year. If the CDC can’t shame famous people into getting vaccinated, maybe Chris Rock will?
    This post has been updated.
    https://www.thecut.com/2021/10/anti-...-woodwork.html





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    Elite Member Mivvi21's Avatar
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    Dumbasses. Besides, I only recognize Clapton and Minaj in the photos and have no fucking clue who most of those shitheads are.

    Oh, and it's funny that raging racist Clapton is so concerned about the vaccine when he certainly had no problem injecting, snorting, swallowing, smoking all kinds of substances throughout his life. What a fucking joke.
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    A Guide to 17 Anti-Vaccination Celebrities

    Jessica Biel isn’t the only celebrity to publicly come out against vaccines


    Jessica Biel is many things: actor, mom, wife to Justin Timberlake, consummate ab-shower, purveyor of the theory that being hotter than Scarlett Johansson and Natalie Portman has ruined her career. This week, however, the world became aware of another credential on Biel’s resume: anti-vaccine activist.
    In an Instagram post, prominent anti-vaccine activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. revealed that he had met with Biel at the California State Assembly to lobby against SB 276, a California bill that aims to limit medical exemptions for vaccines unless parents have the approval of a state public health officer. In response to the uproar, Biel denied being opposed to vaccination, writing in an Instagram post, “I am not against vaccinations — I support children getting vaccinations and I also support families having the right to make educated medical decisions for their children alongside their physicians.”

    But in a post on Jezebel, a legislative staffer in the California State Capitol who allegedly was present at the meeting between Biel and Kennedy said that Biel had said she did not adhere to a regular vaccine schedule for her child, due to her belief that vaccination was linked to a friend’s child’s illness, and that she had admitted to trying to find a doctor who would agree to delaying vaccines for her child. (This practice, “doctor shopping,” is something that SB 276 is in large part attempting to curb.)


    In truth, Biel’s argument for families “having the right to make educated medical decisions for their children” is common among those skeptical of vaccines. (Many do not self-identify as anti-vaxxers, considering the term something of a slur, instead preferring to use such euphemistic terms such as “vaccine risk-aware.”)
    In response to such arguments, however, most public health experts cite the enormous body of research suggesting that mandatory vaccination is critical to maintaining herd immunity and preventing vulnerable members of the population from becoming sick with preventable child illnesses. Indeed, in the wake of the controversy over Biel’s post, many argued that it was dangerous for prominent celebrities to adopt such positions, particularly in light of the measles outbreaks happening across the country due to declining vaccination rates.
    In light of Biel’s fall from (let’s be honest, semi) A-list grace, here’s a compendium of celebrities who have publicly endorsed similarly vaccine-critical views. While few of these individuals identify as anti-vaccine, they have either come out as not having vaccinated their children, are critical of mandatory vaccination or have endorsed such views, or have made dangerous and unproven claims about vaccines in general.
    Kristin Cavallari: The reality TV star appeared on Fox News in 2014 and said that she had not vaccinated her son Camden. “Listen, to each their own,” she said. “I understand both sides of it. I’ve ready too many books about autism and there’s some scary statistics out there. It’s our personal choice.”
    Alicia Silverstone: In her 2014 book, The Kind Mama: A Simple Guide to Supercharged Fertility, a Radiant Pregnancy, a Sweeter Birth, and a Healthier, More Beautiful Beginning, the Clueless actress (who has previously suggested that tampons cause infertility and that veganism can reduce the risk of miscarriage) was highly critical of vaccination, saying “there has not been a conclusive study of the negative effects of such a rigorous one-size-fits-all, shoot-’em-up schedule.” (The Centers for Disease Control would disagree, saying numerous peer-reviewed studies have pointed to the efficacy and relative safety of vaccines.) “There is increasing anecdotal evidence from doctors who have gotten distressed phone calls from parents claiming their child was “never the same” after receiving a vaccine. And I personally have friends whose babies were drastically affected in this way,” she wrote.
    Jenny McCarthy: Possibly the most highly visible anti-vaxxer in Hollywood, McCarthy has a son who was diagnosed with autism when he was two-and-a-half and has been a vocal advocate for her belief that his diagnosis is attributable to the MMR vaccine. Like many others, she has disputed the label “anti-vaccine,” telling PBS Frontline, “We’re not an anti-vaccine movement. We’re pro-safe-vaccine schedule.”
    Jim Carrey: Carrey, who dated McCarthy from 2005 to 2010, has also publicly come out against mandatory vaccination, writing in the Huffington Post in 2009: “In this growing crisis, we cannot afford to blindly trumpet the agenda of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) or vaccine makers. Now more than ever, we must resist the urge to close this book before it’s been written.” He has also blasted Gov. Jerry Brown, calling him a “fascist” in 2015 for signing a law mandating vaccines for all school-aged children regardless of their parents religious’ beliefs.


    Jenna Elfman: The actress, best known for the 1990s sitcom Dharma and Greg, was also a vocal opponent of SB277. “I’m not anti-vax,” she wrote on Twitter in 2015. “Parents should vaccinate their children as much as they wish to in accordance with current law. It’s THEIR RIGHT.”
    It is perhaps worth noting that much like Juliette Lewis and That 70s Show Danny Masterson, who also came out against the 2015 bill, Elfman is a Scientologist. (The Church of Scientology does not have a public stance on vaccines; earlier this spring, however, a Scientologist cruise ship was put under quarantine in the island of Curaçao due to a confirmed measles case onboard.) Charlie Sheen: Well, this one’s not super surprising: the famously mercurial (get it? because vaccines?) actor reportedly got in an altercation in 2008 with his ex-wife Denise Richards over giving their daughters, Sam and Lola, their childhood immunizations. Sheen was apparently so opposed to his children receiving the shots that Sheen’s attorney had to get involved.

    Mayim Bialik: The Big Bang Theory star and natural parenting advocate has a complicated relationship with vaccines. While she has previously said her family is a “non-vaccinating” one and plugged books by anti-vaccine activist Dr. Bob Sears, among others, she appeared to walk back on her stance on vaccines in 2015, tweeting, “I’m not anti. My kids are vaccinated. So much anger and hysteria. I hope this clears things up.” She then followed up with a post that appeared to advocate more explicitly for vaccine “freedom,” writing, “Do your research. Do what’s right for you.”


    Robert DeNiro: This one’s a heartbreaker: in 2017, the legendary actor (who has also publicly questioned whether vaccines are linked to autism and promoted the anti-vaccine film Vaxxed) partnered with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. in a press conference for the World Mercury Project (now the Children’s Health Defense), a nonprofit organization known for its anti-vaccine stance. During the press conference, Kennedy offered journalists a $100,000 reward if they could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that levels of thimerosal, a mercury-based, naturally occurring element used as a preservative in vaccines, are safe. According to the Centers for Disease Control, “data from many studies show no evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines.”
    Kat Von D: In 2018, Von D announced in an Instagram post that she did not plan on vaccinating her first child; her husband, musician Leafar Sayer, also posted links to two anti-vaccine films, Vaxxed and Trace Amounts, on Instagram. She later (again, kind of) clarified her stance: “I am not an anti-vaxxer,” she said in a YouTube video earlier this year. “What I am is a first-time mother. I am one of those moms that reads everything. Anything that is going in my baby or on my baby, I research like a complete and total nerd. After doing a bunch of research and reading the ingredients, naturally I experienced some hesitancy.” (It’s unclear whether she did end up vaccinating her son, who was born in December.)
    Kevin Gates: In a 2016 interview with Rolling Stone, the rapper said that he believed his children were advanced in school (or “accelerated,” in his terms) largely because they had not been vaccinated.



    Robert DeNiro: This one’s a heartbreaker: in 2017, the legendary actor (who has also publicly questioned whether vaccines are linked to autism and promoted the anti-vaccine film Vaxxed) partnered with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. in a press conference for the World Mercury Project (now the Children’s Health Defense), a nonprofit organization known for its anti-vaccine stance. During the press conference, Kennedy offered journalists a $100,000 reward if they could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that levels of thimerosal, a mercury-based, naturally occurring element used as a preservative in vaccines, are safe. According to the Centers for Disease Control, “data from many studies show no evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines.”
    Kat Von D: In 2018, Von D announced in an Instagram post that she did not plan on vaccinating her first child; her husband, musician Leafar Sayer, also posted links to two anti-vaccine films, Vaxxed and Trace Amounts, on Instagram. She later (again, kind of) clarified her stance: “I am not an anti-vaxxer,” she said in a YouTube video earlier this year. “What I am is a first-time mother. I am one of those moms that reads everything. Anything that is going in my baby or on my baby, I research like a complete and total nerd. After doing a bunch of research and reading the ingredients, naturally I experienced some hesitancy.” (It’s unclear whether she did end up vaccinating her son, who was born in December.)
    Kevin Gates: In a 2016 interview with Rolling Stone, the rapper said that he believed his children were advanced in school (or “accelerated,” in his terms) largely because they had not been vaccinated.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...el-847779/amp/





    I'm not anti-vax. Parents should vaccinate their children as much as they wish to in accordance with current law. It's THEIR RIGHT. #SB277
    — ⚡️JENNA ELFMAN⚡️ (@JennaElfman) May 14, 2015








    Bill Maher : The famously contrarian standup comedian and TV host (who has also endorsed prominent figures in the AIDS denialism movement) is, unsurprisingly, similarly skeptical about mandatory vaccination. He tweeted in opposition to the swine flu shot at the peak of the epidemic in 2009, has featured prominent vaccine critic RFK Jr. on his show, and railed against mandated vaccination in an interview with former Sen. (and physician) Bill Frist, saying, “Why would you let [the government] be the ones to stick a disease into your arm? I would never get a swine flu vaccine, or any vaccine. I don’t trust the government, especially with my health.”
    In an interview with the Winnipeg Sun in 2009, Maher clarified his stance on vaccines — kind of. “I’m not a germ theory denier. I believe vaccinations can work. Polio is a good example. Do I think in certain situations that inoculating Third World children against malaria or diphtheria, or whatever, is right? Of course. In a situation like that, the benefits outweigh costs. But to me living in Los Angeles? To get a flu shot? No.”
    Rob Schneider: The former SNL and Deuce Bigalow star has made numerous public statements lobbying against mandatory vaccination. In 2012, he cited the widely debunked belief that vaccines are linked to autism in his opposition to a California bill requiring parents get a signature from a physician to opt out of their child receiving vaccinations. “The parents have to be the ones who make the decisions for what’s best for our kids,” he told a local news station at the time. “It can’t be the government saying that.” Schneider’s views on vaccines are so widely known that in 2018, State Farm pulled an adfeaturing Schneider in response to uproar from pro-science groups.
    Lisa Bonet: Perhaps one of the few celebrities to speak out against mandatory vaccination, the former Cosby Show star and mom to Zoe Kravitz told The Donahue Show host Phil Donahue in 1990 that vaccines could potentially “introduce alien microorganisms into our children’s blood,” with such terrifying (and completely unconfirmed) potential long-term effects as “cancer, leukemia, multiple sclerosis, sudden infant death syndrome.” (For what it’s worth, her former husband Lenny Kravitz doesn’t seem to share these views, partnering with UNICEF in 2013 to call for vaccination to bring an end to preventable child deaths.)
    Toni Braxton: The “Unbreak My Heart” singer wrote in her 2014 memoir that her son Diezel receiving the MMR vaccine may have contributed to his developing autism. “Maybe it’s just a coincidence that after my son’s first MMR vaccine, I began to notice changes in him,” she wrote. (Her book also claimed that his autism was God’s punishment for her having previously gotten an abortion.)
    Selma Blair: In 2015, the Cruel Intentions star lobbied against SB277, the California bill to remove personal belief exemptions. On Twitter, she said that while she had vaccinated her own child, “parental choice is our right. Most vaccinate. Let us choose.”


    Jenna Elfman: The actress, best known for the 1990s sitcom Dharma and Greg, was also a vocal opponent of SB277. “I’m not anti-vax,” she wrote on Twitter in 2015. “Parents should vaccinate their children as much as they wish to in accordance with current law. It’s THEIR RIGHT.”
    It is perhaps worth noting that much like Juliette Lewis and That 70s Show Danny Masterson, who also came out against the 2015 bill, Elfman is a Scientologist. (The Church of Scientology does not have a public stance on vaccines; earlier this spring, however, a Scientologist cruise ship was put under quarantine in the island of Curaçao due to a confirmed measles case onboard.)



    Charlie Sheen: Well, this one’s not super surprising: the famously mercurial (get it? because vaccines?) actor reportedly got in an altercation in 2008 with his ex-wife Denise Richards over giving their daughters, Sam and Lola, their childhood immunizations. Sheen was apparently so opposed to his children receiving the shots that Sheen’s attorney had to get involved.
    Mayim Bialik: The Big Bang Theory star and natural parenting advocate has a complicated relationship with vaccines. While she has previously said her family is a “non-vaccinating” one and plugged books by anti-vaccine activist Dr. Bob Sears, among others, she appeared to walk back on her stance on vaccines in 2015, tweeting, “I’m not anti. My kids are vaccinated. So much anger and hysteria. I hope this clears things up.” She then followed up with a post that appeared to advocate more explicitly for vaccine “freedom,” writing, “Do your research. Do what’s right for you.”


    Robert DeNiro: This one’s a heartbreaker: in 2017, the legendary actor (who has also publicly questioned whether vaccines are linked to autism and promoted the anti-vaccine film Vaxxed) partnered with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. in a press conference for the World Mercury Project (now the Children’s Health Defense), a nonprofit organization known for its anti-vaccine stance. During the press conference, Kennedy offered journalists a $100,000 reward if they could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that levels of thimerosal, a mercury-based, naturally occurring element used as a preservative in vaccines, are safe. According to the Centers for Disease Control, “data from many studies show no evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines.”
    Kat Von D: In 2018, Von D announced in an Instagram post that she did not plan on vaccinating her first child; her husband, musician Leafar Sayer, also posted links to two anti-vaccine films, Vaxxed and Trace Amounts, on Instagram. She later (again, kind of) clarified her stance: “I am not an anti-vaxxer,” she said in a YouTube video earlier this year. “What I am is a first-time mother. I am one of those moms that reads everything. Anything that is going in my baby or on my baby, I research like a complete and total nerd. After doing a bunch of research and reading the ingredients, naturally I experienced some hesitancy.” (It’s unclear whether she did end up vaccinating her son, who was born in December.)




    Kevin Gates: In a 2016 interview with Rolling Stone, the rapper said that he believed his children were advanced in school (or “accelerated,” in his terms) largely because they had not been vaccinated.



    Donald Trump: The President of the United States spent a good portion of the 2010s railing against mandatory vaccination and propagating the claim that vaccines are linked to autism. “Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn’t feel good and changes – AUTISM. Many such cases!,” he famously tweeted in 2014. (There are not.) In light of the measles outbreak last spring, however, Trump appeared to have backtracked, telling CNN, “They [children] have to get the shots. The vaccinations are so important. This is really going around now. They have to get their shots.”
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    Mostly B- and C-listers. Causation or correlation to their anti-vaxx stance? Don't ask them, they don't have the critical thinking skills to figure it out.

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    It is utterly f*cking ASTOUNDING as you read through these peoples' opinion on "choice", that they don't understand the concept of "herd immunity". That a vaccination doesn't just protect your child, it protects other children.

    And then, Myam Bialik -- the scientist??? I realize her degree is in neuroscience, not immunology, but she had to have taken a bunch of serious science courses along the way. WTF, UCLA????

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    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    On Mayim Bialik, well since she claims her kids are vaccinated and she's thoroughly science-educated, I want to conclude it's just a case of nerdy devil's advocacy? Maybe a touch of influence from her orthodox Jewish involvement, is what I'm thinking.
    lindsaywhit likes this.

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    I can’t stand that Mayim does those commercials for those ridiculous “brain supplements”. What little credibility she had is long gone.
    crayzeehappee and KrisNine like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch;[URL="tel:3825733"
    3825733[/URL]]On Mayim Bialik, well since she claims her kids are vaccinated and she's thoroughly science-educated, I want to conclude it's just a case of nerdy devil's advocacy? Maybe a touch of influence from her orthodox Jewish involvement, is what I'm thinking.
    Yeah I wondered how much religion played in it.



    I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that this was astounding.
    Confession: I’m lying in bed reading this as I wait the results of a PCR test (LFD was +ve).
    Double vaccinated, cancer survivor, asthma & deemed “high risk”. And I still feel like shit.
    "I don't know what I am to them, maybe a penguin XD" - Tiny Pixie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    Yeah I wondered how much religion played in it.
    I saw multiple educational videos by Rabbis in various US communities promoting the vaccine so that would be strange.
    I think this was a case of her saying people should be free to decide so she wouldn't get in trouble with fans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    Confession: I’m lying in bed reading this as I wait the results of a PCR test (LFD was +ve).
    Double vaccinated, cancer survivor, asthma & deemed “high risk”. And I still feel like shit.
    Hope you are feeling a little better now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeSlice View Post
    I can’t stand that Mayim does those commercials for those ridiculous “brain supplements”. What little credibility she had is long gone.
    She lost it with those photos of her breastfeeding her 4 year old on the subway.
    Be excellent to each other.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GRuser1 View Post
    I saw multiple educational videos by Rabbis in various US communities promoting the vaccine so that would be strange.
    I think this was a case of her saying people should be free to decide so she wouldn't get in trouble with fans.




    Hope you are feeling a little better now!
    Ah thank you.
    And thank you. I’ve been battling a cold & this has hit me just as I was getting better so I’ve given up & I’m going to spent the day on the sofa while my results come in.
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    Vaccines have done such an astounding job eradicating illnesses that people don't understand how important they are.

    Idiots.
    Beeyotch, Angeli, czb and 2 others like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    Yeah I wondered how much religion played in it.



    I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that this was astounding.
    Confession: I’m lying in bed reading this as I wait the results of a PCR test (LFD was +ve).
    Double vaccinated, cancer survivor, asthma & deemed “high risk”. And I still feel like shit.

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    Wait till they start losing half their kids due to stuff we could have eradicated …
    I mean, that’s what people did “before” (as in every dumbass’s stupid question “how did people do before?” Well Jan, they buried their kids. a lot. That’s what they did. There’s a reason why there’s such a thing as “Victorian mourning fashion” )
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