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Thread: 19 Kids and Counting star Josh Duggar was named in an underage sexual abuse probe

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChloroformCasey View Post
    The reason that I am now longer a full time investigator is because I couldn't get over all the shit I saw. It was too fucking much. And I have seen everything horrible. Things most people can't even imagine. And this was just one of them. I've seen this before. It seems like a million times.

    Sorry. Having a Sad Sack day. It's been a while since I thought of these things.
    See, this is why I love GR. After reading through hundreds of posts on other sites, none of them get to the fucking point so quickly as posters do here. CC, crimes like this don't only damage children. The damage reverberates in all directions, through the extended families, to investigators, therapists, lawyers and social spheres. Make fun of all the fundies still supporting the Duggars, they are collectively insane, but their own families are now in danger of inventing the same excuses for criminal behavior.

    Still, I do want to understand Josh and the effects of being raised in that fucked up family. Maybe I'm naive and childlike in my thinking. I'd like to think that if Josh had received GOOD counseling at 14 years old, as an alternative to his Male Godhead, overcrowded, anti-learning family, he might have had a chance of breaking the dynamic of this behavior. 14 is still young enough to change one's sexual fixations. 'Course, the way the Duggars handled it would only cement the forbidden fruit as the most delicious.

    No one saw Josh to evaluate if he is a pedophile or a bored, horny, curious early teen - who heard his parents talk about sex constantly (on national TV), who was given authority over all female relatives by god, who might be grossed out by women of fertile age because everything in his household is centered around every little detail of Michelle's pregnancies and births, who never had friends outside his family, who was a normal angry teenager who hates his parents, hates the ever growing mass of siblings, is forced by their warped religion to banish all sexual thoughts about women (so who is left to think about then?)

    My curiosity excuses Josh of NOTHING. I don't think he's handled his shit at all and if he hasn't molested girls since then, it is just a matter of time. But I do pity 14-year-old Josh and how his parents ruined him in the name of their own god.

    Now it's no wonder that Josh and his brothers are not close, why he chose a wife that talks like a toddler (just like mom), why he looks so unhealthy and has gained so much weight, why Jim Bob has chosen his new sons-in-law to continue preaching the message rather than Josh (or John David who acts like he wants nothing to do with the show or his family), why Jim Bob obsesses over his older girls (except Jana), why the family seems over-focused on females defrauding males...

    I can't help but try to put this puzzle together.
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  2. #92
    Gold Member ChloroformCasey's Avatar
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    I guess I am slow, but I still can't get over Sluce thinking I am biased. sigh

    While I think you are cool Sluce, you don't have the market of experience on this type of thing. I dealt with this and other things for over a decade. Part of my job now after I retired, is still in Investigations. I continue to work to this day, almost 20 years now, helping victims and their families in all sorts of situations.
    So tell me what I said wrong:

    1. That rural religious people have a big piece of the incest pie?
    2. That these families tend to cover it up?
    3. That pedaphiles can't change their stripes?

    I am not biased. I am experienced.
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  3. #93
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    You're biased in that your perspective come from the investive side of the abuse - not the psychological side. I have been in the field for 30 years now, so I too have experience on the other side. Rural religious families do not get a larger slice of pie, nor or they more likely to seek it silent. Wealthy familes are just as vile when it comes to sexual abuse. Pedophiles can be cured, but it is not a high rate of success. However, it is not the norm to classify a kid as a pedophile as a pedophile is a person who is sexually attracted to children - not a child who is attracted to other children. Sexual activity between siblings is much more common than society wants to admit. In this case it seems that Josh experimented beyond his siblings, and it was not welcome. That makes it abuse.
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  4. #94
    Gold Member ChloroformCasey's Avatar
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    Did I NOT say everything you just said? I SAID, that this type of crime permeates every sector of our society. It is NOT restricted by money or standings. However it is more prevalent in rural religious communities. Just the facts ma'am.

    As for Josh, and just speaking from my own personal experience with pedophiles...they have little to no chance at recovery. The reason being is that we ALL come into our sexual awareness at a certain time in our lives. At SOME point we figure out we like girls or boys, or hairy legs, or big butts, or whatever. It is ingrained. From that point, we continue to be attracted by those attributes.

    But Josh, and hosts like him, are difficult. It's a two part deal with them. Josh seems to have been awoken sexually by watching his sisters sleep, and having been repressed by his upbringing, it was scandal, and tempting, and forbidden. It was everything he was told by the Bible never to do. So. He did it. He was being rebellious, as well as being caught up with a sexual fantasy involving VERY underaged people. It's a hot mess of needing help.
    Last edited by ChloroformCasey; May 22nd, 2015 at 03:34 PM.
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  5. #95
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    Jfc, chill the fuck out.
    idunno, sluce, Serendipity and 3 others like this.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    . In this case it seems that Josh experimented beyond his siblings, and it was not welcome. That makes it abuse.
    I'd like to know if the Duggar girls were welcome to the experimentation or if (as some are reporting) Josh would climb into their beds while they slept. I'm uncomfortable with a sister as young as four being considered old enough to participate in this "experimentation" of siblings. No doubt kids will rub each other, kiss like mommy and daddy, throw off their clothes and tickle each other, before they have any idea that sex is part of the picture. What Josh did at 14, to his sisters as young as 4, is simply not kids playing with their weird little bodies.
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    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    According to the reports, this whole thing was discovered when one of the young girls went to Jim Bob and reported Josh had molested her. Several months later, Josh confessed to molesting "several" young girls (at least four of his sisters and another child outside the family). He did it when they were asleep "and also sometimes when they were awake." Apparently one incident included molesting the 4 year old on his lap in the presence of another of the little girls.

    Jim Bob then took Josh in front of the "church leadership" and they decided to send Josh off for "punishment." According to Michelle, this was a family friend who Josh did construction for over the summer (of 2003).

    When Josh returned, Jim Bob took him an Arkansas State Troop that Jim Bob was close friends with. He gave Josh a "stern talking to" and did nothing else. The state trooper is currently in prison for child porn. Josh returned home to live with his sisters/molestation victims and the family did nothing else.

    Three years later, the Duggars were booked on Oprah. An "family friend" connected to the Duggars' church had written a letter detailing Josh's crimes and the victims, hid it in a book and then lent the book to someone. That someone then warned Oprah's producers about Josh's misconduct. The Oprah Show cancelled the Duggars' interview and gave the letter to the Springdale, Arkansas police department. The police launched an investigation and requested Josh come in for an interview, but Jim Bob hired a lawyer and refused to let Josh do the interview. Jim Bob also allegedly made one of his daughters/one of the victims go to the police and formally request that the records of the investigation be destroyed.
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  8. #98
    Elite Member dolem's Avatar
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    Don't worry, TLC already has another show about mass producers starting up. Nothing gets you on TLC faster than having more than 10 kids or being a little person.

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    Now if people magazine would stop putting them on their covers, all will be right with the world.
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  10. #100
    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    Free Jinger had discovered that the "family friend" the Duggars sent Josh off to be "counseled" by is Bill Gothard, friend of Mike Huckabee and the leader of the quiverfull cult. Gothard was forced to resign from his ministry last year after being accused by at least 34 female followers of years of systematic sexual abuse.

    Gothard's "training center" where Josh Duggar was sent was donated to Gothard by Hobby Lobby.

    Gothard's is the only "counseling" Josh received. There is no evidence that any of the girls Josh molested received any counseling or help, not even from their "church."
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    Old Testament solutions for crazy fundy cult members
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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post
    Free Jinger had discovered that the "family friend" the Duggars sent Josh off to be "counseled" by is Bill Gothard, friend of Mike Huckabee and the leader of the quiverfull cult. Gothard was forced to resign from his ministry last year after being accused by at least 34 female followers of years of systematic sexual abuse.

    Gothard's "training center" where Josh Duggar was sent was donated to Gothard by Hobby Lobby.

    Gothard's is the only "counseling" Josh received. There is no evidence that any of the girls Josh molested received any counseling or help, not even from their "church."
    Jeez. That is sad. I have no professional experience in this area. I do know someone whose 5 year old daughter was molested by a 13 year old boy as she slept. The boy had seemed to fixate on her and he was going through some difficult family stuff at the time. I don't know what happened with him, but I do know that it was not reported to authorities. In addition its impact on the girl and her family, I think what happened was a red flag for his behavior and an opportunity to intervene.
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  13. #103
    Elite Member Lofty Bike's Avatar
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    This is so sad and infuriating to read. I can see that Josh had limited options to make it through puberty, but that does not make his actions any less terrible and him no less a child abuser. But the parents - what kind of people are they and what kind of God they are praying to? This poor girls did not get any attention, help or guidance, it seems like they just had to endure the molesting. And then they had to bullshit about purity with that history of being victims of abuse. I cannot imagine how they must feel right now and I'm glad about this.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolem View Post
    Nothing gets you on TLC faster than having more than 10 kids or being a little person.
    Midgets with more than ten kids (who are all involved in pageants)?
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    I grew up in a fundie home. Not quiverfuls or whatever they are called but pretty nutty stuff just the same (we dressed like the Duggers, weren't allowed to watch tv, listen to radio, go to the movies, be within 12 inches of a member of the opposite sex, etc etc ). Sexual repression goes without saying.

    Despite all that, I never had the urge to fondle a four year old. I was very much attracted to boys my own age. I had no outlet for it but that didn't make me turn to my brother.

    I think it's important to analyze the how and why of these things so I appreciate the discussion. And I'm sure this kid's upbringing contributed greatly to his behavior but I'm also inclined to believe it's deeper pathology, some innate flaw in him because lots of folks grow up repressed and don't molest kids.
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