Stephen Baldwin praying for Tom Cruise

[A*O]

Originally Posted by buttmunch

I know...I actually have a copy. Great tune.

OT: Burt Baccarach (sp?) and Hal David wrote some of the very best songs ever. Very sophisticated, interesting melodies, many of which give you that 'shivers down the spine' moment, eg, the theme from the original Alfie movie. Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys has the same gift.

[Delphinium]

Originally Posted by buttmunch

Nope, no issues here. I just don't buy the whole "if you don't believe in Jesus then you won't be 'saved'" line of thinking. If there is a some sort of higher being watching over the world, I should think he/she would be more interested in humans living good lives, being kind to others, not treating others shamefully, etc. than in those who bang on about how much they believe in a book or a church or a deity.
And I certainly don't think that questioning any religion is mocking it nor do I think that in questioning a religion I am insulting each and every member of that religion. That would mean that if someone, like you, says that ThetinTom will go to hell (which, yes, you did say...see above) for not believing in Jesus, etc, then all who don't believe in Jesus etc should be insulted. You have a right to your beliefs, certainly, but so do I. And I, like you, have the right to express them in a discussion. Yes, I do find Stephen Baldwin ridiculous with this praying for people crap. Just like I find ThetinTom ridiculous with his vitamins and exercise crap. Actually, anything that smacks of conversion and missionary work kind of creeps me out. Believe what you want to believe...I absolutely support that as long as it doesn't hurt anyone or interfere in thier lives. But trying to label me as someone with issues is kind of silly. I wasn't making any stance on the existence of God or viability of religion. I was making a stance on this very silly little man vs. another very silly little man. It was others who brought in being saved, etc. And quite frankly, George Bush is a born-again and I dont' care how much he believes in Jesus, God or whatever, if there is a hell, that man is first in line for tickets the day he dies.

look you are taking what was a fairly calm discussion and trying to turn it into a big dogfight over religion and now you toss in George Bush who has NOTHING to do with this thread at all. If you want to debate religion, start a thread in the religion and beliefs forum and believe me, I'm sure it will end up being 89 pages long. And yep I'll probably jump right in being unable to help myself. But, please know this, there is some serious Christian-bashing that goes on at times round these parts, and I don't want it to get started again.

Yep, we've all slipped up myself included, letting biases or stereotypes slip into our posts. And hopefully I've apologized when needed, and I ALWAYS try to keep my posts on a non-personal level.

But the Bush-hating,Christian-bashing,anti-Republican posts get totally old after awhile, and it stifles conversations here on the forum.

Speaking of which, where is Dirty Pool? MIA?

Originally Posted by pacific breeze

I don't really care what people believe as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to mix religion and government. Problem is though, most true believers have a mission to "save" the rest of us whether we want to be saved or not. And in my not inconsiderable experience, a lot of born agains become addicted to religion in the same way that they were once addicted to sex, drugs, booze or whatever their particular vice was. I think Baldwin is a prime example of this syndrome.

If I had to choose an addiction, Christianity would definitely be better than drugs or booze etc.

I know from experience, that many, especially "new" Christians are so excited about the positive changes in their life that they do want to tell everybody they know. And can't understand why others are not as excited as they are about their newfound religion/belief/salvation.

Most Christians do mellow out some with time, and share their beliefs in a friendly but non-confrontational manner.

[Sojiita]

Originally Posted by Delphinium

look you are taking what was a fairly calm discussion and trying to turn it into a big dogfight over religion and now you toss in George Bush who has NOTHING to do with this thread at all. If you want to debate religion, start a thread in the religion and beliefs forum and believe me, I'm sure it will end up being 89 pages long. And yep I'll probably jump right in being unable to help myself. But, please know this, there is some serious Christian-bashing that goes on at times round these parts, and I don't want it to get started again.

Yep, we've all slipped up myself included, letting biases or stereotypes slip into our posts. And hopefully I've apologized when needed, and I ALWAYS try to keep my posts on a non-personal level.

But the Bush-hating,Christian-bashing,anti-Republican posts get totally old after awhile, and it stifles conversations here on the forum.

Speaking of which, where is Dirty Pool? MIA?



If I had to choose an addiction, Christianity would definitely be better than drugs or booze etc.

I know from experience, that many, especially "new" Christians are so excited about the positive changes in their life that they do want to tell everybody they know. And can't understand why others are not as excited as they are about their newfound religion/belief/salvation.

Most Christians do mellow out some with time, and share their beliefs in a friendly but non-confrontational manner.

^^last I saw DirtyPool was banned. I don't know why.

[Delphinium]

Originally Posted by Sojiita

^^last I saw DirtyPool was banned. I don't know why.

oh. i must've missed that happening.

[savansa]

I don't like Stephen. He was the one harassing people going into porn shops and he even rented out space in the newspaper to have those people's licence plated advertised. I don't think he has a good heart or good intentions.

[Delphinium]

from what i recall, it was because of the location of the porn shop, it was near a school or church or something like that.

[savansa]

I thought it was near his house but I don't care what his reasons were for being such a giant dickhead. That's psychotic behaviour.

[Delphinium]

I don't know. I wouldn't want one of those shops anywhere near my house or where kids are. They are gross and attract very weird people. If they are legal, they should be required to be only in certain areas or something. That way the rest of society doesn't have to see them.

[buttmunch]

look you are taking what was a fairly calm discussion and trying to turn it into a big dogfight over religion and now you toss in George Bush who has NOTHING to do with this thread at all. If you want to debate religion, start a thread in the religion and beliefs forum and believe me, I'm sure it will end up being 89 pages long. And yep I'll probably jump right in being unable to help myself. But, please know this, there is some serious Christian-bashing that goes on at times round these parts, and I don't want it to get started again.

Yep, we've all slipped up myself included, letting biases or stereotypes slip into our posts. And hopefully I've apologized when needed, and I ALWAYS try to keep my posts on a non-personal level.

But the Bush-hating,Christian-bashing,anti-Republican posts get totally old after awhile, and it stifles conversations here on the forum.

You're completely way off base here. I didn't bring up all the bible thumping stuff, you and others did. We were all joking around about having a prayoff and suddenly it became about being saved and believing in the one true whatever. Sorry, you are really living in a glass house here and you are the one who started down this track. As far as George Bush, it was to illustrate why soneone who believes in God, Jesus, the one true one, whatever, isn't necessarily going to go to 'heaven'. He was the best illustration I could think of to refute a point that you made. I'm pretty sure I'm not the one with issues here.

So, dirtypool was banned? Why?

[NawdleZouss]

Originally Posted by pacific breeze

I don't really care what people believe as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to mix religion and government. Problem is though, most true believers have a mission to "save" the rest of us whether we want to be saved or not. And in my not inconsiderable experience, a lot of born agains become addicted to religion in the same way that they were once addicted to sex, drugs, booze or whatever their particular vice was. I think Baldwin is a prime example of this syndrome.

Best post on this thread, I agree completely.

About the "Christian bashing", and accusations of hypocrisy on this board, religion is a CHOICE. Not like sexual orientation. Not like race. I don't think "bashing" religion, any kind of religion, is reprehensible in the same degree as racism, sexism, or homophobia is; especially considering that many racists, sexists and homophobes are motivated by religion in the first place.

However, I have no problem with religion in itself, one you take away all the irrational people who choose to interpret it literally. And even if I don't agree with many Christian precepts, that hasn't stopped me from befriending and enjoying the company of a lot of really amazing Christians, as evidenced on this board.

Yeah, so to summarize, generalization is bad, mmkay?

EDIT- I think Dirtypool was banned for personal attacks on PB?

[buttmunch]

Nice post, nawdle and I agree with your take on religion, etc. I have religious freinds--Christian and otherwise--and we get along fine, simply because we respect where each other are coming from. Respect for everyone to have thier own point of view is the only way to avoid conflict. It's when beliefs are shoved down people's throats that the trouble starts.

Anyway, is Dirtypool permanently banned or is it temp.?

[MrsDark]

Originally Posted by Sojiita

I have nothing against Christians per-se. It is the crazies that get me riled. I hope I do point this out when I say something that seems anti-Christian/anti religious. I think the person who this would most apply to is temporarily unable to respond if ya know what I mean(not hatin' on him..but let's be real, right? )
There is a heck of a lot of anti-male sentiment on this board at times too. Men are evil, men are abusers, etc. etc. But given that this is mostly a female board, I just let it go for the most part. I think sometimes people's views on here may get a little exaggerated because they may be venting on here also-and this applies to just about all topics/groups/etc. and *shock!!!* this applies to me too!

Well said Soj. I certainly never questioned the intelligence of anyone on here at all, much less compared to myself. But I do stand by my view that people of faith do seem in need of (and getting) something from their belief system that they can't seem to otherwise and elsewhere.

Whether or not I feel genuine admiration or disdain for someone who possesses the ability to truly give themselves over completely and for life to a manner of believing in something that does not deal in certainty and requires belief in the absense of proof (which, for the record, I don't even buy that Stephen Baldwin has done!) depends on a variety of factors.

Lob and I have had this discussion before, and I know she (and probably not the only one) is touchy about my opinion that religion is (mainly) a crutch, that's why I apologized in advance. I am not implying anything about anyone on here, as this is about Stephen 'phony-prostelysizing-egotistical-ass' Baldwin, who I'd probably be even more disgusted with if I were one of faith.

Tom Cruise does indeed need "help" of some kind. But he could be just as crazy in the name of Jesus as he is LRon. As funny as it is that some phony Xtian publicity seeking celeb is able to make him look worse than he already does (and get attention for himself) by claiming to be "praying" for him, what Tom really needs is some good medical, psychiatric and public relations help.

[KD]

Originally Posted by buttmunch

I have religious freinds--Christian and otherwise--and we get along fine, simply because we respect where each other are coming from. Respect for everyone to have thier own point of view is the only way to avoid conflict. It's when beliefs are shoved down people's throats that the trouble starts.

I could not agree more. Well said.

[MrsDark]

My best friend since childhood is still a practicing Catholic and she's never gotten pissed at me and told me I was 'going to hell' or that she was 'praying for me'. Soooo condescending when people say this! And 99.9% of the time it's really for themselves and their own egos, not because they are truly praying for you.

[WickedHo]

Originally Posted by Delphinium

look you are taking what was a fairly calm discussion and trying to turn it into a big dogfight over religion

What is your problem??? I suggest you develop a thicker skin when it comes to God and Jesus because buttmunch was NOT trying to start "a big dogfight." Your problem is that each and every time anyone says anything negative about Christians or Christianity, you take it as an attack and an attempt to start "a big dogfight." Get over it, and get over yourself. Learn how to read the words you see in front of you without distorting their intent.

and now you toss in George Bush who has NOTHING to do with this thread at all. If you want to debate religion, start a thread in the religion and beliefs forum and believe me, I'm sure it will end up being 89 pages long.

Have you never debated before? It is customary to provide examples to back up your argument. Therefore, buttmunch's George W. Bush reference was HIGHLY relevant and on-point.

And yep I'll probably jump right in being unable to help myself. But, please know this, there is some serious Christian-bashing that goes on at times round these parts, and I don't want it to get started again.

No, we bash fundie- CLOSE-MINDED "Christians." Same thing goes for the fundie-CLOSE-MINDED zealots of all other "religions." This is why I personally respect Lobelia and have never bashed her; she is in no way a close-minded zealot.

Yep, we've all slipped up myself included, letting biases or stereotypes slip into our posts. And hopefully I've apologized when needed, and I ALWAYS try to keep my posts on a non-personal level.

But the Bush-hating,Christian-bashing,anti-Republican posts get totally old after awhile, and it stifles conversations here on the forum.

Don't blame us. Blame Bush. All fault lies with him. He and his cronies are guilty of many ills worthy of our disgust and outrage. Oh, and you should get a thesaurus. By no means are conversations stifled regarding G.Dub et. al. What happens is that you pro-Bushies realize you haven't a leg to stand on when you defend him, so you stop doing it.

If I had to choose an addiction, Christianity would definitely be better than drugs or booze etc.

You are sorely misguided. Addiction of any sort is counter-productive and potentially life-threatening. You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, so please don't make me spell it out for you any further.

I know from experience, that many, especially "new" Christians are so excited about the positive changes in their life that they do want to tell everybody they know. And can't understand why others are not as excited as they are about their newfound religion/belief/salvation.

The same thing can be said for people that get involved in a pyramid scheme. I mean, MLM.

Most Christians do mellow out some with time, and share their beliefs in a friendly but non-confrontational manner.

Thank God for that. Otherwise, it would be the end of your religion.