Stephen Baldwin praying for Tom Cruise

[pacific breeze]

The Bible is an interpretative document and it was clearly written over a long period of time in the opinion of many scholars and theologians.

I don't like the judgmental tone this thread is taking...it really belongs in the Religion forum. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and belief system. Let's respect that.

[savansa]

Wow one little word getting so much attention and I was only being flippant! Codependents rely on others to complete them, among other things people already said. One of the things that turned me off Christianity was the idea you have to believe in Jesus to be saved, I thought if he was all about love he wouldn't be petty like that and love everyone without strings.

[Lobelia]

You didn't use the flippant emoticon, so it was hard to tell. The rest of what you said, I won't contest, although I'd like to, because PB would like us to mellow this thread out. May the force be with you.

[Delphinium]

Originally Posted by buttmunch

Where to start, Delphinium. Perhaps with my favorite bit.



Where does anybody get off ringing doorbells to 'give information'. Would you feel it was ok if teh $cientologists or the Jehovah Witnesses or the Moonies came by? And why are thier religions less valid than yours, as evidenced by your statements above?

As far a little League games, why should anybody have to pray at a sporting event? Especially if there are presumably kids of different religions on the teams? I mean, is God going to help the little nippers do better or do you think he/she might have something better to do with her/his time, should he/she even exist?

You get awfully high on your horse about people supposedly bashing christians around here but you don't seem to have any trouble at all bashing other religions or keeping mum when we all have a go at the $cientologists.

And before this breaks out into another tiff, I have no problem with anyone's religion but I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone knocking on my door in order to lure me to their church any more than I would want any salesperson (which essentially you are in that situation) knocking on my door. I dislike all door-to-door salespeople as much as I dislike telemarketers. If I want a product, I'll go out and find it.

When we go door to door it is usually at set times of the year to either give information about the Sunday School programs, or the Christmas gathering etc. It isn't to "lure" anyone into church. It is just to invite people if they are interested. We've had quite a few people who came to visit after receiving a flyer. They usually feel happy someone took the time to invite them out etc. I've got no problem respecting if someone has a no soliciting sign on their door, fair enough. But then I'm also very polite to Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons etc. I may enter into a conversation with them regarding certain aspects of their beliefs that I don't agree with, but I never get mean or rude with them.

As to me speaking up about Scientology, I don't know much about them other than they have beliefs which are so far out I don't know how anybody can really believe it. There is no historical or archeological proof of their religion. I've spoken up in regards to the islamic religion here in the past etc. So it appears maybe you want me to somehow fulfill a stereotype by bashing on all other religions. I criticize them where and when I feel I should.

And lastly, if someone is an athiest, thus they don't believe in any god, why are they so bothered if some little softball kid prays? seems weird to me that folks are bothered by something that doesn't exist in their thinking. shows that athiesm isn't anything more than kicking out against the creator. otherwise it wouldn't bother them.

[cheray]

People, people, tolerance and respect is utmost.
Tolerate those around you AND their stupid religions.


Just kidding.

[buttmunch]

When we go door to door it is usually at set times of the year to either give information about the Sunday School programs, or the Christmas gathering etc. It isn't to "lure" anyone into church. It is just to invite people if they are interested. We've had quite a few people who came to visit after receiving a flyer. They usually feel happy someone took the time to invite them out etc. I've got no problem respecting if someone has a no soliciting sign on their door, fair enough. But then I'm also very polite to Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons etc. I may enter into a conversation with them regarding certain aspects of their beliefs that I don't agree with, but I never get mean or rude with them.

As to me speaking up about Scientology, I don't know much about them other than they have beliefs which are so far out I don't know how anybody can really believe it. There is no historical or archeological proof of their religion. I've spoken up in regards to the islamic religion here in the past etc. So it appears maybe you want me to somehow fulfill a stereotype by bashing on all other religions. I criticize them where and when I feel I should.

And lastly, if someone is an athiest, thus they don't believe in any god, why are they so bothered if some little softball kid prays? seems weird to me that folks are bothered by something that doesn't exist in their thinking. shows that athiesm isn't anything more than kicking out against the creator. otherwise it wouldn't bother them.

This has all gone on too long and I really can't be bothered to go back and forth with you any more. It's tiresome, as are your 'arguments'. But I do have two things to say: you have no idea what my spiritual leanings are simply because I have never publicly stated them. So you're making suppositions that aren't necessarily true. And that leads me to my second point: it might not be an atheist who gets upset at having kids pray at a bloody sporting event. Perhaps it would be a Hindu, Muslim or some other religious person, who might not feel comfortable with the situation. Personally, I don't think it has any place at a game for kids. Otherwise, good luck to you in your door-to-door activities. I'm sure they have nothing to do with conversion or missionary work but are simply the work of a good and neighborly person.

[Charlotte]

As to me speaking up about Scientology, I don't know much about them other than they have beliefs which are so far out I don't know how anybody can really believe it. There is no historical or archeological proof of their religion. I've spoken up in regards to the islamic religion here in the past etc. So it appears maybe you want me to somehow fulfill a stereotype by bashing on all other religions. I criticize them where and when I feel I should.

There's no proof for Christianity either, or any other religion for that matter, that's why it's called 'faith'. Religions come and religions go - in 2000 years Scientology will probably be regarded by many as 'the one true way'. It just needs to age a bit.

And lastly, if someone is an athiest, thus they don't believe in any god, why are they so bothered if some little softball kid prays?

I don't think anyone's bothered if someone chooses to pray to whatever 'god' through their own free will. It's when prayer becomes mandatory that i develop a problem with it.

seems weird to me that folks are bothered by something that doesn't exist in their thinking. shows that athiesm isn't anything more than kicking out against the creator. otherwise it wouldn't bother them.

Lack of freedom bothers me - not someone else's private expression of faith. There is way more to atheism than 'kicking out' against a 'creator' that an atheist doesn't believe exists in the first place (because that would really make sense(!)) If i wanted to do that then i'd declare myself a satanist.

I get the impression that you're somewhat unwilling to open your eyes to what atheism actually is.

[buttmunch]

I get the impression Delphinium does more than just hand out info when she goes knocking on doors.

[WickedHo]

Originally Posted by Delphinium

If you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God then you should not self-identify as a Christian. You are not a Christian according to the Bible. it is dishonest of you to claim Christianity as your belief system and then negate the very foundation of your beliefs in your next post.

...not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdomof heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven....and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity... Matthew 7: 21-24

You're not a Chrisitan either. You judge people each and every chance you get. That ain't Christian behavior.

So, yeah, as much as you'd like to delude yourself, YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN.

[Delphinium]

Originally Posted by Charlotte

There's no proof for Christianity either, or any other religion for that matter, that's why it's called 'faith'. Religions come and religions go - in 2000 years Scientology will probably be regarded by many as 'the one true way'. It just needs to age a bit..

not so, we have historical proof outside of the Bible for Jesus' existence, as we also have that Mohammad was a real person, Buddah was a real person etc. So far, I don't think we've found any historical evidence for Xenu. (but hey you never know, we may find that volcano yet!)

Originally Posted by Charlotte

I don't think anyone's bothered if someone chooses to pray to whatever 'god' through their own free will. It's when prayer becomes mandatory that i develop a problem with it. ..

And that is fine with me as well. BUT unfortunately, some are bothered if a little league team, or football team etc, high school grad speaker etc. want to pray or somehow mention Jesus. So in effect, some out there want to remove ALL religion from public life and that is wrong. If a kid went up at graduation and thanks Buddah for his success, I don't have issue with it, I can stand or sit politely until they are done speaking. I don't have to make (literally) a federal case out of it.

Originally Posted by Charlotte

Lack of freedom bothers me - not someone else's private expression of faith. There is way more to atheism than 'kicking out' against a 'creator' that an atheist doesn't believe exists in the first place (because that would really make sense(!)) If i wanted to do that then i'd declare myself a satanist.

I get the impression that you're somewhat unwilling to open your eyes to what atheism actually is.

my understanding of atheism is a lack of belief in any diety or higher power or creator. So, if as an athiest, someone believes I'm prayer to "nothing", why would it disturb them to hear someone pray?

Originally Posted by WickedHo

You're not a Chrisitan either. You judge people each and every chance you get. That ain't Christian behavior.

So, yeah, as much as you'd like to delude yourself, YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN.

Ah, another who buys into the "judge not" defense without reading the entire passage in context. I judge and discern using the Bible as my guide. So in fact, YES I am a Christian.

[sluce]

Originally Posted by Delphinium

If you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God then you should not self-identify as a Christian. You are not a Christian according to the Bible. it is dishonest of you to claim Christianity as your belief system and then negate the very foundation of your beliefs in your next post.

...not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdomof heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven....and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity... Matthew 7: 21-24

Wow!! How pretentious and closed minded you are (in my opinion) for someone who claims to be a Christian. Who are you to say that I am not a true Christian because I don't subscribe to your narrow vision? I can assure you that there are many religions created by man that would state you are dishonest to profess that you are a Christian based on your behavior in this thread. I will be praying for you in hopes that your mind will open to embrace all the differences in the world instead of staying in a little box. I personally believe that God and Jesus are upset with those who profess to spread their word by passing judgment on others using their names.

[buttmunch]

Well, I was about to go sign up for Bible study class, but I realize now that, with Delphinium's help and guidance, I can find my way to the one true path and learn scripture into the bargain. Hallelujah!

[WickedHo]

Originally Posted by Delphinium

Ah, another who buys into the "judge not" defense without reading the entire passage in context. I judge and discern using the Bible as my guide. So in fact, YES I am a Christian.

No. You are not. God is the only one who judges, not lowly, imperfect human beings such as yourself.

So, no. You are NOT a Christian. Just because you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and saviour does not mean you are Christian. Christians walk God's path WITHOUT judging others. Have you forgotten that whole "Judge not lest ye be judged" part of the Bible?

[buttmunch]

Apparently, Wicked Ho, that was just a pre-amble to other, more judgemental bits. Now, I think it's time we all humbly came to the conclusion that not only does Delphinium have all the answers, she probably has a personal line to the big guy/gal upstairs and if we keep messing with her, she'll put the kibosh on us when it's our time to tally up our lives.

[WickedHo]

She actually has the audacity to say "I judge using the Bible as my guide" or some other such bullshit.

Um, you're not supposed to judge. AT ALL. Duuuuhh!

So, no, JungleMonkey is one o' them fake-ass Jeebus lovers. <<--- I'm sorry... was that a personal attack? Let me check... Nope! It was a JOKE!

Originally Posted by sluce

I personally believe that God and Jesus are upset with those who profess to spread their word by passing judgment on others using their names.

See? Praise God!! Glory be to Allah!! Woot woot, Jahweh!! And Buddah, too.



Thank you, sluce, for standing up and proclaiming your faith in a calm, reasonable, NON-JUDGEMENTAL way. You do Jesus proud.