Pardon me for nitpicking, but where's the codependent part?Originally Posted by savansa
"I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou
Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.
Co-dependants are addicted to pleasing others. They exist only for the sake of others. I guess the whole dying-on-the-cross thing is what savansa meant??
I still say: JESUS WAS NOT TRYING TO START A RELIGION. He only wanted to free the people, to liberate their spirits. And, no, he did NOT look like a hippie from Cali circa 1976.
And if I may rehash a good ole quip from British comic Jimmy Carr: If we're all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?
And if I may rehash a good ole quip from British comic Jimmy Carr: If we're all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?
BINGO!!!!!!
I'm not sure where you live, but it sounds like people are really "in your face" there. I know plenty of athiests, agnostics, and people of all different religions, and while I may totally disagree with their beliefs, I'm never mean to them because of it.Whether Christians keep it on the down low or shout it from the rooftops, they have an advantage...and dare I say, a luxury(?)...your average non-believer doesn't in whether or not to do so. As non-believers we're being offensive when we question these people's beliefs, even though they influence everything in our lives on a daily basis. Outside of this forum and in the real world (at least where I'm from) I do not share the same freedom from being unfairly judged...having everything from my morals, my parenting ability and my entire worth as a human being called into question on account of my beliefs (or lack of) should I choose to make them publicly known. I think I take this pretty well, considering that in addition I am forced to endure an innundation of their beliefs on a constant basis in the form of prayers before little league games (where I must "bow" my head and appear to be with everyone else), door-to-door prostelysizing, being accosted in public places with my child present by people bearing leaflets or finding them left under my windshield wipers. At the very least, I am a "lost soul" when it's discovered that I don't belong to a particular church or espouse a set of religious beliefs...and at the very worst, reviled and someone to be avoided. So some religious person claiming to "pray for me" (unless they possess the assumption that I am a person as they for whom this would mean something) is as much of an arrogant and self-righteous put-down to me as my belief that religion is a "crutch" is to some of them. The only difference is that it is somehow honorable and noble that they would "pray for me". And be sure to let me know it.
Try "merely mentioning" that you are an atheist on for size sometime, should you want a taste of intolerance.
I think as far as raising kids goes, the ONLY time I feel perplexed is if the parents forbid the kid to go to churches with their friends. Because I do think each person should know enough about religion to stay away from groups like the Scientologists and to choose what they believe ultimately.
As far as bowing your head at little league, if others are praying they shouldn't notice if you do or don't bow your head. I think the problem is, I've seen people who totally go out of their way to make noise or make it obvious they are NOT praying. That seems to be rude to me. Otherwise I wouldn't care one way or the other. (why pray to a god you don't worship?)
As far as door-to-door visits. I do go out door to door to invite people to church, or to give them an informational flyer etc. (I'm not a jehovah witness), and let me tell ya, most people are polite even if they aren't interested which is nice, and I don't push I just say thanks for your time and walk to the next house. BUT every once in awhile you get people who have serious anger management problems!
I really do pray for people when I tell them I will. and I don't mean it as condescending or anything, I genuinly believe in a God who answers prayers. I only pray for good things for that person.
So as a Christian, can you show me using the Bible where it is stated one can be a non-Christian to enter heaven? And I'm using church in the sense of the church of Jesus Christ, not a denomination or "man made" organization. I'm talking about someone who has obeyed the gospel as outlined in the Bible. (mods this can be moved to the religion forum if more appropriate than here).
Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever.
[QUOTE=Delphinium;386924
So as a Christian, can you show me using the Bible where it is stated one can be a non-Christian to enter heaven? And I'm using church in the sense of the church of Jesus Christ, not a denomination or "man made" organization. I'm talking about someone who has obeyed the gospel as outlined in the Bible. (mods this can be moved to the religion forum if more appropriate than here).[/QUOTE]
I don't believe the bible is the word of God. It was written by man and changed a long the way. It is great if it brings you comfort but most people in the world do not subscribe to the new testament or the bible at all. I often wonder if God isn't out there just shaking his/her head at all that is said and done in the name of religion.
I would have no problem with it if you or anyone else were seriously taking it upon yourself to pray for lil' ole me (though I personally feel there are much more productive things you could occupy your time with) as long as you didn't feel the need to let me know this. This is the part that's condescending. Especially when or if you know for a fact what my beliefs are.
Where I'm from it's not so much that people are "in my face"...at least that they are aware of...just that if I say nothing, it's automatically assumed that my beliefs are the same as theirs. I find this stupid AND ignorant, even though people I genuinely like are guilty of it. In other words, since I'm a good mom, wife, neighbor, etc and appear to be a good and moral person with more integrity than most people, it is freely assumed that I must be a "good Christian" as well. And (I'm talking about mainly acquaintances here, since a true friend would never do this) heaven forbid if they ever discovered that I was an atheist. That would mean that they were "wrong" about me.
Even though they don't realize it, it's actually offensive in a way. How would one of them feel if I assumed the same about them (that they shared MY LACK of religious beliefs) and I started in on something like making fun of or putting down religious people/beliefs just because it appeared that we had a lot in common, they seemed "cool" and like a lot of fun as opposed to being a goody-two-shoes, and had never uttered a peep about Jesus?
My Posts Have Won Awards. Can Any Of You Claim The Same? -ur_next_ex
"I don't have pet peeves. I have major psychotic fucking hatreds, okay". ~George Carlin
Where to start, Delphinium. Perhaps with my favorite bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsDark
Whether Christians keep it on the down low or shout it from the rooftops, they have an advantage...and dare I say, a luxury(?)...your average non-believer doesn't in whether or not to do so. As non-believers we're being offensive when we question these people's beliefs, even though they influence everything in our lives on a daily basis. Outside of this forum and in the real world (at least where I'm from) I do not share the same freedom from being unfairly judged...having everything from my morals, my parenting ability and my entire worth as a human being called into question on account of my beliefs (or lack of) should I choose to make them publicly known. I think I take this pretty well, considering that in addition I am forced to endure an innundation of their beliefs on a constant basis in the form of prayers before little league games (where I must "bow" my head and appear to be with everyone else), door-to-door prostelysizing, being accosted in public places with my child present by people bearing leaflets or finding them left under my windshield wipers. At the very least, I am a "lost soul" when it's discovered that I don't belong to a particular church or espouse a set of religious beliefs...and at the very worst, reviled and someone to be avoided. So some religious person claiming to "pray for me" (unless they possess the assumption that I am a person as they for whom this would mean something) is as much of an arrogant and self-righteous put-down to me as my belief that religion is a "crutch" is to some of them. The only difference is that it is somehow honorable and noble that they would "pray for me". And be sure to let me know it.
Try "merely mentioning" that you are an atheist on for size sometime, should you want a taste of intolerance.
I'm not sure where you live, but it sounds like people are really "in your face" there. I know plenty of athiests, agnostics, and people of all different religions, and while I may totally disagree with their beliefs, I'm never mean to them because of it.
I think as far as raising kids goes, the ONLY time I feel perplexed is if the parents forbid the kid to go to churches with their friends. Because I do think each person should know enough about religion to stay away from groups like the Scientologists and to choose what they believe ultimately.
As far as bowing your head at little league, if others are praying they shouldn't notice if you do or don't bow your head. I think the problem is, I've seen people who totally go out of their way to make noise or make it obvious they are NOT praying. That seems to be rude to me. Otherwise I wouldn't care one way or the other. (why pray to a god you don't worship?)
As far as door-to-door visits. I do go out door to door to invite people to church, or to give them an informational flyer etc. (I'm not a jehovah witness), and let me tell ya, most people are polite even if they aren't interested which is nice, and I don't push I just say thanks for your time and walk to the next house. BUT every once in awhile you get people who have serious anger management problems!
I really do pray for people when I tell them I will. and I don't mean it as condescending or anything, I genuinly believe in a God who answers prayers. I only pray for good things for that person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sluce
you stated that Tom will NOT get into heaven with his current beliefs. How do you know?
For the record - I do subscribe to Christian beliefs but don't believe in a God that would exclude people from an afterlife because they didn't attend a church that man established.
So as a Christian, can you show me using the Bible where it is stated one can be a non-Christian to enter heaven? And I'm using church in the sense of the church of Jesus Christ, not a denomination or "man made" organization. I'm talking about someone who has obeyed the gospel as outlined in the Bible. (mods this can be moved to the religion forum if more appropriate than here).
Where does anybody get off ringing doorbells to 'give information'. Would you feel it was ok if teh $cientologists or the Jehovah Witnesses or the Moonies came by? And why are thier religions less valid than yours, as evidenced by your statements above?As far as door-to-door visits. I do go out door to door to invite people to church, or to give them an informational flyer etc. (I'm not a jehovah witness), and let me tell ya, most people are polite even if they aren't interested which is nice, and I don't push I just say thanks for your time and walk to the next house. BUT every once in awhile you get people who have serious anger management problems!
As far a little League games, why should anybody have to pray at a sporting event? Especially if there are presumably kids of different religions on the teams? I mean, is God going to help the little nippers do better or do you think he/she might have something better to do with her/his time, should he/she even exist?
You get awfully high on your horse about people supposedly bashing christians around here but you don't seem to have any trouble at all bashing other religions or keeping mum when we all have a go at the $cientologists.
And before this breaks out into another tiff, I have no problem with anyone's religion but I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone knocking on my door in order to lure me to their church any more than I would want any salesperson (which essentially you are in that situation) knocking on my door. I dislike all door-to-door salespeople as much as I dislike telemarketers. If I want a product, I'll go out and find it.
'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." --Sinclair Lewis
I have on my door: No Soliciting, No Religious Agents, Friends Always Welcome.
The salient characteristic of codependents is that they compromise their own integrity, self-respect, values, etc. to accomodate others. They help (enable) people to continue with self-destructive habits by say....calling in sick for an alcoholic, buying tubs of fried chicken for a morbidly obese husband, driving a drug addicted girlfriend around to look for drugs, etc.
Jesus isn't codependent. Jesus just loves us, baby.
"I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou
Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.
You don't know the history of Jesus. I do. Stop being glib.
And so does Buddha, Yahweh and any other "god" we care to name. The key concepts are love and tolerance.
Shut up and take your vitamins. All 60 of them.
"I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou
Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.
Damn, I knew I'd been forgetting something lately...
May Xenu have mercy on you both.
If you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God then you should not self-identify as a Christian. You are not a Christian according to the Bible. it is dishonest of you to claim Christianity as your belief system and then negate the very foundation of your beliefs in your next post.
...not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdomof heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven....and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity... Matthew 7: 21-24
Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever.
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