Nicole Kidman's marriage to Tom Cruise wasn't real says Catholic Church

[Karizma]

You're saying people should live together in order to determine if they should marry? You don't think two people can get to know one another without living together? Really, now? My husband and I knew each other for more than a decade before getting married. I can promise you, I knew him better than even his parents before we were married. I'm sure you'll find a whole host of others who've done it as well. I do personally think if more couples spent time dating and less time developing a physical relationship (right off the bat) and worrying about who will live with whom, relationships would generally do better. I'm sure I'll get flamed for that but I'm old fashioned, I can take it. Kari, you never fail to amaze me with your contridictions. You go on and on about living a straight laced life and you come out with this stuff? Shaking head.

What stuff?! Goodness my question was directed to you, someone who lives in a very "open" society that tolerate pre-marital relationships, i was actually wondering about the contradictions in your society. You said Catholic church make divorces/annulment hard so people can know eachother before the marriage, and i was amazed how can such religious doctrine works in a very open society. They know that "knowing" the person in today means "sleeping/living" with one another, o that amazed me.

As for me, when the hell did i "go on and on and on about living a straight laced life"??!! If you are talking about 'team virginity' then i must tell you what i do in my country is considered normal not some unique code of ethics, everybody do it or let's say suppose to do it. Where i come from there is NO WAY in hell i would have a relationship with a guy for 10 years without scared union, marriage. Am i rubbing my "morality"? no, i am being completely honest with you here. That's why i don't think i would ever love the person i would marry pre-marriage cuz there is no way i can know the person completely before a union UNLESS i know him from work. Things here differ alot from your country, it['s not better or worse it's just different.

[KIMU]

I have several friends who married a guy who changed after the marriage...
and they changed too !!! and for worse !!!!

I dont think marriage is forever as the Catholic church says, marriage is until there is love between the couple. Why to be married with a man who groses you out or with a histerical & crazy woman ?


I believe in second chances...

[WhoAmI]

I assume she obtained a "lack of form" invalidation or annulment, which merely states that the marriage was invalid because it was not performed following the rules of the Church. These are not considered formal annulments and are pretty easy to get. Especially if you marry into a cult.

[A*O]

The ONLY marriage the Catholic Church regards as valid in the eyes of God is a Catholic marriage ceremony. If you have a civil marriage, a protestant marriage, a Muslim marriage, a Scientology marriage, a Jewish marriage it may be legal in the eyes of the law and the religion by which you were married, but as far as the Catholic Church is concerned you may as well not be married at all from a RELIGIOUS point of view.

There is a difference between divorce and annulment. Divorce is the LEGAL dissolution of a marriage which some religions accept as well (but not the Catholic church where marriage is for life). Annulment is a RELIGIOUS dissolution of a marriage, usually under fairly strict conditions (non-consummation, mental incapacity when marrying, bigamy, coersion, etc) although like in all things if you bung enough $$$ at the problem you can usually find a sympathetic priest who will arrange it so you are then free to remarry in a Catholic church because an annulled marriage to them 'never existed'.

[PrettyGirl]

The ONLY marriage the Catholic Church regards as valid in the eyes of God is a Catholic marriage ceremony. If you have a civil marriage, a protestant marriage, a Muslim marriage, a Scientology marriage, a Jewish marriage it may be legal in the eyes of the law and the religion by which you were married, but as far as the Catholic Church is concerned you may as well not be married at all from a RELIGIOUS point of view..

THIS IS TOTALLY UNTRUE. I know, I almost got married last year and I had to go through the whole damn process and my ex-fiance was divorced from his first wife, so we got the whole run-down.

The Catholic Church recognizes ANY marriage, under ANY religion, and those marriages ARE recognized by the Church, as long as it was a marriage that united that man and that woman in Christ. It doesn't matter if it wasn't Catholic, it doesn't matter if it wasn't by it's own teachings....it doesn't matter if it happened in a church or a chapel. If it was a union and God or Christ was mentioned, in the Church's eyes, IT COUNTED. A spiritual union in a Christian faith is a marriage, doesn't matter if it's wasn't neccessarily Catholic.

If you want to remarry in the Catholic Church, you need an annulment if you were united to someone in marriage through Christ...if you married in another religion: Apostolic, Baptist, Methodist, whatever....it counted, honey. If, however, you only married by law though...went to Vegas or the justice of the peace and signed some papers, then no, it's not neccessary to get an annulment. A 'divorce' is enough. And that depends if you follow the catechism and teachings of the Church. The Catholic Church rarely marries you just like that. It takes 9 months to a year to prepare you for it.

[WhoAmI]

If the marriage was performed outside of the Church, I believe it can be considered a valid sacrament if it was either performed with the permission of the Bishop or if it is blessed after the fact by a priest. Civil marriages and marriages in other churches are considered legal, but are not sacramental.

[PrettyGirl]

There are 7 sacraments in Catholism, marriage being one of them yes. In order for it be considered a Catholic sacrament, you marry in the Church initially or you have the option of basically re-marrying as a Catholic later on, even if you're married or have been married civilly for years. A blessing isn't going to do it---there's a specific word for it (I forgot it off-hand), where a civil marriage is basically brought to the eyes of God for a spiritual union. You still have to go through catechism, albeit, it's not nearly as extensive as first-time marriages because the Church knows you're already married to this person by law, live with them, sleep with them and may in fact already have children together. I had to go to catechism for an entire year for the preparation of my wedding and I taught it for 5 months afterwards. This stuff got drilled in my head...lol

Nicole Kidman didn't have to get an annulment because her first marriage to Tom Cruise was not a Christian union. It's not that it didn't count, it counted, but it wasn't a spiritual union---they were married by man, not God. A decree of divorce was enough for her to marry. But believe me, it counted. She is a divorcee. But that divorce decree proves she is no longer anyone's legal wife--it's over. However, had Tom and Nicole married in any other Christian based religion, then no, she'd basically have to wait for Tom to keel over and die or get an annulment before she could marry in the Catholic Church. No legal divorce paper would've freed her from that. It may free her from her legal ties to him, but in the eyes of God, she is and would forever be his wife period. She would've had to opt for a wedding by a judge, justice of the peace or maybe another religion that would re-marry her, but the Catholic church wouldn't have.

P.S. and basically the Bishops of any diocese bless and 'approve' all sacraments...baptisms, Holy Communions, Confirmations, Marriages, Holy Orders, etc...they're brought before him and he gives the yay or the nay....lol

[Bellatheball]

What stuff?! Goodness my question was directed to you, someone who lives in a very "open" society that tolerate pre-marital relationships, i was actually wondering about the contradictions in your society. You said Catholic church make divorces/annulment hard so people can know eachother before the marriage, and i was amazed how can such religious doctrine works in a very open society. They know that "knowing" the person in today means "sleeping/living" with one another, o that amazed me.

As for me, when the hell did i "go on and on and on about living a straight laced life"??!! If you are talking about 'team virginity' then i must tell you what i do in my country is considered normal not some unique code of ethics, everybody do it or let's say suppose to do it. Where i come from there is NO WAY in hell i would have a relationship with a guy for 10 years without scared union, marriage. Am i rubbing my "morality"? no, i am being completely honest with you here. That's why i don't think i would ever love the person i would marry pre-marriage cuz there is no way i can know the person completely before a union UNLESS i know him from work. Things here differ alot from your country, it['s not better or worse it's just different.

I've read this twice and I'm still not sure I understand what you are trying to say. The Church, generally speaking, does not change with the times. That's why many feel their stance on such issues as abortion, marriage, divorce etc are too rigid. Personally I love that the church stands for what they believe to be true even in the face of a society that would want them to say otherwise. Most priests frown on couples who live together or admit to a sexual relationship before marriage. Some are less rigid and skirt around the subject. Other priests uphold the Church's teaching to the letter and won't marry a couple who has lived together or had sex.

I love that virginity is accepted where you live (which is where by the way?) I'm having a really hard time understanding what you're saying in your second paragraph. If you assume that because my husband and I knew each other for 10 years and therefore had a sexual relationship during then, you would have assumed wrongly. If instead you are simply saying that's way too long to go before marrying someone, we'll respectfully disagree. It's a choice the two of us made and it's one that has served us well for many years thanks.

[A*O]

If the marriage was performed outside of the Church, I believe it can be considered a valid sacrament if it was either performed with the permission of the Bishop or if it is blessed after the fact by a priest. Civil marriages and marriages in other churches are considered legal, but are not sacramental.

That's what I meant only you put it better

[WhoAmI]

Prettygirl, I think it's called convalidation (when the Church recognizes a union after the fact). Since Tom was baptized (wasn't he even baptized a Catholic?), I still think they would have needed a lack-of-form decree (aka "Declaration of Nullity of Marriage Based Upon A Defect of Canonical Form") even if it was just a civil union in order for her to remarry in the Church. However, I certainly may be wrong and perhaps we should turn this over to the Catholic Tribunal Court.

[PrettyGirl]

Yes, Tom Cruise was Catholic, very much so...if I remember correctly, I think he went to a Catholic school or studied among Franciscans...something like that, I know read it somewhere a long, long time ago. But Tom wasn't just a non-practicing Catholic, he pretty much renounced the faith as he does to any faith that isn't Scientology. He no longer considers himself to be a Catholic at all. He is a Scientologist and that's what Tom and Nicole were married in, that faith.

Just because someone was baptised Catholic doesn't make them a Catholic for life. It just signifies basically that the doors have been opened up to him. As an adult he may choose to not follow that path. That is why the sacrament of Confirmation is there--to profess again your desire to follow Christ as an adult. It shows your conscious effort, one you didn't do as a child. So, no, just because Nicole and Tom were both baptised Catholics as children, doesn't make their civil marriage Catholic at all. As adults they both chose not to include Christ in their marriage nor to incorporate any of the Catholic Church's traditions, namely a mass of matrimony. A divorce decree was enough I would think.

And yes, thanks for finding that term for me...it's indeed called a convalidation. My mom and step-dad had it done when my father passed away (my mom's first husband).

[WhoAmI]

If only Tom had not been led astray by Hollywood and L. Ron he would have made a fine priest. Or nun, in his case.

[PrettyGirl]

Oh, I think he's much too vain to have been a priest. I think Hollywood suits him fine...he's charismatic, he likes people, he likes money. The priesthood wasn't for him...lol

Interestingly enough is the fact that it appears that all of Tom's significant love interests have all been Catholics...and all these women he's tried to convert to Scientology: Mimi Rogers, Nicole Kidman, Penelope Cruz, Katie Holmes. Well, I think Mimi was actually the one who brought him into Scientology but she left it. He unfortunately got deeper and deeper into it.

[DitaPage*]

Um....ok. I don't get the Catholic stuff....

Me either and I am an ex catholic.

[Beeyotch]

As someone who was born Catholic, there have been too many times all these rules smacked of hypocrisy and just an easy way for the church to control people's lives. Too many people follow them only when they're convenient, or find some way around them, so they can still call themselves "religious." I respect those people who take their religion seriously and adhere devoutly to their tenets. But so many others--including religious leaders--say one thing and do another, that it's really devalued religion altogether for me.

For Nicole Kidsman's marriage to Tom Cruise not to be "valid" in the eyes of the Catholic Church just because it wasn't within the Christian religion but legal in every other way, is just semantics. So what, the marriage didn't happen just because the Catholic Church doesn't recognize it? She was clearly with him for 10 years. They can't negate the existence of something just because they don't agree with it.

It just feels like the Church makes up a lot of contradictory, arbitrary self-serving rules.