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Thread: Newsweek readers question Angelina Jolie's sincerity and a whole lot more

  1. #106
    Elite Member Picara's Avatar
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    By Wicked Ho:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingcap72
    This is a great question, and I think you've really hit on something. And oddly, I think it's primarily women who have this problem with powerful women. I don't know why.
    And I think it's primarily MEN that have a problem with strong women. Why? Because men are usually the ones in positions of authority, and a strong woman is a threat to his power, along with all the other men who may be in a position to take over said man's position of authority.


    Quote:
    I think this statement hits home, not just with Angelina, but with strong women in general. I've noticed that the women that seem to get the most hate or ripped the most are the ones that wield the greatest power and influence, and it's not just from women but from men too.
    Paris Hilton is the most hated and ripped apart female celebrity today. It's not because she wields great power and influence, it's because she's a dumb skank with no talent. Therefore, your point is preposterous. It IS NOT strong women or women with power that are the most hated and ripped apart, as you claim.

    Now do you get why Paris Hilton was a relevant example?


    Quote:
    Personally, I have no problem with strong women, since I grew up in a family full of them. But I think a lot of people are scared of women who seem to have so-called male traits like being strong, ambitious, independent, and powerful.
    I still say that of all the people that are literally scared of and threatened by strong, ambitious, independent, powerful women are the MEN that they encounter in their work/home environment. Why? Because of what you say next:


    Quote:
    Now I can understand men having a problem because it's an ego thing,
    Quote:
    but I never understood why some women view a strong woman as a threat or a predator. To me, it seems counter-productive for full equality for women to turn against a strong woman who is conquering the world on her terms.
    Now, when you say "some women view a strong woman as a threat or a predator," my response is, "Well, duuh!" Some women do feel threatened! It's human nature to feel threatened by someone that's stronger than you. But I do not agree that most women are threatened by and afraid of any and every strong woman (which is an entirely subjective concept, by the way).


    Quote:
    But, then again, the same thing is true with minorities too. You'll have some who are going for the gold, and others will turn on them and claim their selling out and forgetting their roots. Once again, being counter-productive.
    Yes, "some" non-White people are guilty of this, but only the ignorant ones. But by no means is it "most" non-Whites that turn on their own when the others excel in life. So this particular analogy is tangential and doesn't give weight to your argument
    **************************************************
    great post Wicked. You addressed everything that was bugging me in this thread.

  2. #107
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picara View Post
    By Wicked Ho:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingcap72
    This is a great question, and I think you've really hit on something. And oddly, I think it's primarily women who have this problem with powerful women. I don't know why.
    And I think it's primarily MEN that have a problem with strong women. Why? Because men are usually the ones in positions of authority, and a strong woman is a threat to his power, along with all the other men who may be in a position to take over said man's position of authority.


    Quote:
    I think this statement hits home, not just with Angelina, but with strong women in general. I've noticed that the women that seem to get the most hate or ripped the most are the ones that wield the greatest power and influence, and it's not just from women but from men too.
    Paris Hilton is the most hated and ripped apart female celebrity today. It's not because she wields great power and influence, it's because she's a dumb skank with no talent. Therefore, your point is preposterous. It IS NOT strong women or women with power that are the most hated and ripped apart, as you claim.

    Now do you get why Paris Hilton was a relevant example?


    Quote:
    Personally, I have no problem with strong women, since I grew up in a family full of them. But I think a lot of people are scared of women who seem to have so-called male traits like being strong, ambitious, independent, and powerful.
    I still say that of all the people that are literally scared of and threatened by strong, ambitious, independent, powerful women are the MEN that they encounter in their work/home environment. Why? Because of what you say next:


    Quote:
    Now I can understand men having a problem because it's an ego thing,
    Quote:
    but I never understood why some women view a strong woman as a threat or a predator. To me, it seems counter-productive for full equality for women to turn against a strong woman who is conquering the world on her terms.
    Now, when you say "some women view a strong woman as a threat or a predator," my response is, "Well, duuh!" Some women do feel threatened! It's human nature to feel threatened by someone that's stronger than you. But I do not agree that most women are threatened by and afraid of any and every strong woman (which is an entirely subjective concept, by the way).


    Quote:
    But, then again, the same thing is true with minorities too. You'll have some who are going for the gold, and others will turn on them and claim their selling out and forgetting their roots. Once again, being counter-productive.
    Yes, "some" non-White people are guilty of this, but only the ignorant ones. But by no means is it "most" non-Whites that turn on their own when the others excel in life. So this particular analogy is tangential and doesn't give weight to your argument
    **************************************************
    great post Wicked. You addressed everything that was bugging me in this thread.
    And I think it's primarily MEN that have a problem with strong women. Why? Because men are usually the ones in positions of authority, and a strong woman is a threat to his power, along with all the other men who may be in a position to take over said man's position of authority.

    Well, I know men have a problem with a powerful woman, but I think some women have the same problem. Because I think some women believe that a strong powerful woman is somehow being less of a woman. But that's just speaking from a male perspective.

    Paris Hilton is the most hated and ripped apart female celebrity today. It's not because she wields great power and influence, it's because she's a dumb skank with no talent. Therefore, your point is preposterous. It IS NOT strong women or women with power that are the most hated and ripped apart, as you claim.

    The fact that you keep using Paris Hilton as an example completely undermines whatever point you're trying to make. I was talking about how society as whole tends to view strong powerful women. Hell, even strong powerful woman hate Paris.

    I still say that of all the people that are literally scared of and threatened by strong, ambitious, independent, powerful women are the MEN that they encounter in their work/home environment. Why? Because of what you say next:

    I agree that men are scared of women with so-called male traits, but I think women are too.

    Yes, "some" non-White people are guilty of this, but only the ignorant ones. But by no means is it "most" non-Whites that turn on their own when the others excel in life. So this particular analogy is tangential and doesn't give weight to your argument

    How is that any different from what I said in the first place? Did I say that it was most minorities? No, I said some go for the gold, while others turn on them. Perhaps in your rush to try and dissect everything I said, you overlooked that part.

  3. #108
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    kingcap: It would help if you learned how to dissect like a pro. I'd like to give you the respect of reading your words, but it's CONFUSING! *goes back to wade thru it all*

  4. #109
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    King, the point is: YOU SAID THAT STRONG WOMEN ARE THE MOST HATED AND RIPPED APART. That is untrue. Who is the most hated and ripped apart woman right now? Who???? Is it a strong woman? No, it isn't. It's a dumb skank with no talent. Therefore, YOUR ARGUMENT FAILED.

    And your point about "minorities"? (I fucking hate that word, by the way.) It doesn't hold water. A "minority" that "goes for the gold" is not the same thing as a "strong woman." A "strong woman" isn't necessarily "going for the gold" or reaching for the stars or whatever other cliche you can think of. A genuine "strong woman" simply lives her life. She can be a stay-at-home mom, a housewife, or a CEO or a hippie or a volunteer firefighter or blogger or whatever.

  5. #110
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo View Post
    Yes. They do. Because Saint Ange is oh-so-important. We should all kneel and grovel at her feet.
    I've never grovelled at anybody's feet and if ever I was going to don the kneepads, it sure as hell wouldn't be to a celebrity. And I've never once referred to her as a saint, nor have most other people who occasionally point out that she is not evil personified. But that doesn't make her a saint either.

    I don't believe in saints and even if I did, I wouldn't consider her one.

  6. #111
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Regarding Saint Angelina:
    This sarcastic moniker was bestowed to mock all the fantards out there that truly, honestly, deep-down in the pit of their souls believe that Angelina Jolie can do no wrong, is perfect and should be worshipped by all.

  7. #112
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    ^^lol.

  8. #113
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    She's just an actress (of sorts) who happens to be an adopt-a-holic. Why are you people getting your knickers in a twist over this woman?

  9. #114
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    I only get on my knees if there is jewerly involved
    There are many strong women who don't evoke dislike. In the early Bush years, people adorded Barbara Bush. She was a strong woman, but a grandmotherly type. That is O.K. for a woman to be. However once they really start to weild power and not "behind the throne" but in front like Hillary etc., many people dislike them. They fear a woman taking their power, especially a man as it makes them feel wimpy. Women dislike it, (not all) because it makes them feel like cop-outs because they are out there taking charge. They think it makes them less womanly to be aggressive. Woman are suppossed to wield the power at home. I think some woman can be too aggressive, and so can men. My principal is a woman and very strong, but not aggressive. She gets a lot of respect and admiration. It is a hard line to walk.

    I used to really like Angelina, until she started becoming an "adoptaholic". At first I thought it wonderful, then when she kept on, and kept running those kids all over the world, and still making movie after movie, I started to think, "What the hell is she trying to prove". When her dad went on T.V. it was wrong, but he was worried, she seemed pretty crazy when she was with Billy Bob. Get over your distrust lady and move on. Give your dad a break. He left when you were young, he was an idiot, let him make up for it.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  10. #115
    Elite Member Voodoo Child's Avatar
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    I just wanted to add that I love all of Nana55's posts.

  11. #116
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo Child View Post
    I just wanted to add that I love all of Nana55's posts.
    awww, you're sweet.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  12. #117
    Elite Member Voodoo Child's Avatar
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    ^^Your definately the sweet one. You always maintain a level head in these threads. Big cheers for Nana!

  13. #118
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    Wow, I don't know what to say. First off, I would like to thank the academy, and of course, as we always do...........Jesus. You can see by my byline what a fan of religion I am.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  14. #119
    Elite Member Voodoo Child's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    Wow, I don't know what to say. First off, I would like to thank the academy, and of course, as we always do...........Jesus. You can see by my byline what a fan of religion I am.

    Then lean on over and kiss thy bro!

  15. #120
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo View Post
    King, the point is: YOU SAID THAT STRONG WOMEN ARE THE MOST HATED AND RIPPED APART. That is untrue. Who is the most hated and ripped apart woman right now? Who???? Is it a strong woman? No, it isn't. It's a dumb skank with no talent. Therefore, YOUR ARGUMENT FAILED.

    And your point about "minorities"? (I fucking hate that word, by the way.) It doesn't hold water. A "minority" that "goes for the gold" is not the same thing as a "strong woman." A "strong woman" isn't necessarily "going for the gold" or reaching for the stars or whatever other cliche you can think of. A genuine "strong woman" simply lives her life. She can be a stay-at-home mom, a housewife, or a CEO or a hippie or a volunteer firefighter or blogger or whatever.
    Now what I meant by my original point was that strong women tend to get the most hate from society and I stand by that. And what I also said was these women have what many consider to be so-called male traits. I didn't just say strong women and leave it at that. Perhaps, you should have taken all of that into consideration before you went off on your rant.

    Case in point, many of the same women who hate Hillary Clinton, like Laura Bush. Why? Because she fits more into the typical first lady role. Laura is less vocal and doesn't really have much of an opinion.

    And your theory about Paris still failed. Paris is a rich, spoiled, snotty rich girl, and that's why people hate her. Period. She's a public spectacle like Britney and Lindsay. And she's getting so much hate now because she tried to act as if she was above the law, and that same hate would be directed at a male in the same situation.

    Now Martha Stewart would be considered strong, powerful and dominant because in that same situation, she held her head high and didn't let anybody see her sweat. Yet she was hated by many people and many people, male and female, wanted to see her fall. However, once she took her punishment, more people have gained a newfound respect for her. Unlike Paris.

    And the example I used about minorities does apply in the sense that often times a minority who comes from a poor environment will be frowned on by ignorant ones in that environment for being strong. Strong in the sense that they want to get a good education and a good job, rather than just hang out and play the so-called roles that are expected of them. Which is almost the same as a strong & dominant woman who chooses not to play the typical role that society has set for her. And what's why I used that as an example.
    Last edited by kingcap72; June 25th, 2007 at 01:35 AM.

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