Camille Paglia: White middle-class women identify with Jennifer Aniston's humiliation

[glamazon]

ok, I did oversimplify things...I do think Angelina is pretty and I do excuse her SOME things for it.

I also have no issue with Tori Spelling and wish people would leave her alone. I support her as well. I think CZJ is gorgeous and wish Michael Douglas would dump her ass.

I personally think that perhaps her and Brad really liked each other, and that Brad being a weak minded individual went for her and left his wife. I think only Brad is to blame. He was married, and Angelina wasn't. I'm not saying Angelina doesn't have any responsibility, but she didn't make promised to Jen, Brad did.

And I do enjoy how cute their family is, and I would have probably enjoyed it if he had kids with Jennifer A. But I kind of feel Camille's opinion about the white middle class woman thing - all my white gf's were hugely excited when Jen A. got married to Brad Pitt, and I didn't see it as anything all that, but when she got dumped, they were hugely pissed like it was their sister. This kind of thing happens all the time in Hollywood (look at Christie Brinkley) but no other story seems to touch a nerve like this hollywood triangle.

[Lily]

Maybe I'm sympathetic towards Jennifer Aniston because my ex-husband left me for my "best friend" of ten years. It was awful and humiliating. I think Jen handled herself with grace and dignity---she had to go through something extraordinarily painful in the public eye.

[Icepik]

Originally Posted by Lily

Maybe I'm sympathetic towards Jennifer Aniston because my ex-husband left me for my "best friend" of ten years. It was awful and humiliating. I think Jen handled herself with grace and dignity---she had to go through something extraordinarily painful in the public eye.

But you shouldn't/couldn't sympathize with Jennifer Aniston. No one knows their relationship; what they were going through. No one here can honestly say they know anything about the Jen/Brad marriage. She could have made his life utter hell behind closed doors, she could have batted her eyelashes every night - telling him tonight was the night they would try for a baby... or maybe they just simply grew apart. I don't know. I do know they were NOT in an ideal marriage. I somehow can not bring myself to believe they were living this great , perfect life then succubus Angelina put the hex on him.

Everything about them is speculation and depending on who one prefers over the other gets the best scenerio and backing.

[Somerset]

Originally Posted by Lily

Maybe I'm sympathetic towards Jennifer Aniston because my ex-husband left me for my "best friend" of ten years. It was awful and humiliating. I think Jen handled herself with grace and dignity---she had to go through something extraordinarily painful in the public eye.

I completely agree, if I had been in Aniston's shoes, I'm not sure I could have remained so civilized publicly. And I'm sorry for the horrible situation you were in. Hopefully, what goes around will come right back around. I think that in most cases it really does, it's just a matter of time.
And Icepik, you obviously seem to favor Angelina yourself. No one is saying Aniston was some angel or that her marriage with Brad was perfect. But not being an angel or not having the perfect marriage (which, ahem, no one is and no one does) does not mean you deserve to be publicly humiliated like that by your husband and his mistress.

[CherryDarling]

Ok, I've been pretty quiet on this so far, but I'm jumping in for the ride now. Before I get going, two things/disclaimer: I am not Nitey and I love both Angelina and Jen...quelle horreur! Is that..........possible????

Angie has gotten away with a majority of her actions because people are fascinated with her looks. She is stunning, IMO. But...does it always have be about beauty? I don't think everyone finds Angie fascinating just because of her looks. For me, it's not just about her looks. Tori Spelling, Camilla PB, etc. (to the best of my knowledge, I could be wrong) have not repeatedly gone out of their way to promote how fucked up the world is outside of the Western society. Angie deliberately gets the media out there and uses her celebrity in a good way for numerous charities, her associations w/the UN, etc. Now, that's not ALL she uses her celebrity for but, we all know that...moving on.

Yes, okay, Angie/Tori/Camilla PB--they've all been "homewreckers"--but is it truly possible to "wreck" a happy home? Maybe. But...I've never seen it happen. Why does Angie get the constant blast? Do people really think that she cast some spell on Brad? It takes two to tango--horrid cliche, but it's true. I agree w/you glamazon...if there's any "true" villian in this triangle, it's Brad.

Brad and Jen had cracks in their relationship prior to Angie entering the pic--this was known. And it's sad...I LOVED Brad and Jen together as much as anyone, thought they were happy/etc. (until I started hearing otherwise, but that's another story...) Just possibly they just weren't meant to be...but many people don't like to accept that. Anyhow, I believe Jen will find happiness one day, she deserves it. I also think Jen will make a great mother--I've seen pics of her, the woman is a natural around kids. I love Jen Aniston as much as I do Angie, I guess I can just see both sides of the whole Brangelina fiasco!

Both Jen and Angie do many admirable things, i.e. charity work, money donations, etc. Not to mention I think they're both great actresses. I admire them both for being strong women who aren't afraid of their flaws, gasp--they're human! They have....issues! I find them both refreshing. Not out flashing the cooch just to get press like the vapid ones...Ang & Jen: these are smart women.

As far as Brangelina: it's not an easy thing. But I admire all of them for handling it the best way they could. Jen had every right to kill Brad, but she didn't. I'd have been so hurt, so pissed--I've been cheated on and it feels like someone's ripped out your heart. But she's admirable for not holing up and pining away--she's continued to work and move on with her life. Team Jen

Angie, well...she's fucking crazy/beautiful! She's done some things that I just don't agree with and made me wanna But, I do think she knows she's somewhat crazy...yet just tries to live her life the best way possible. When she says she's not a hugger--people may find that fucked up, but I read that and instantly thought--I CAN RELATE! (I'm not a big hugger either due to my own trust issues...but we won't go into that). Angie does good things for those less fortunate: I wish I had the means to do that more often. And she's found someone to love who loves her in return, I really think she and Brad just might love each other...some may not agree, but that's the vibe I get. Love is rare enough in real life, let alone in Hollyweird. I think they'll be around awhile. Also think they're awesome parents, given their situation with the media blitz...but, who knows what could happen tomorrow? Something could come along and flip the whole thing upside down. It's life. It happens. Team Brangelina

Ok, this post is too long...but there's my take. Don't hate me guys!
*ducks flying objects*

[Icepik]

^^^Why does Jennifer have every right to kill Brad? I'm sure within the confines of their marriage, she knows better than anyone why the marriage didn't work out. If anything, the only thing she should feel is acceptance of a marriage that was not meant to be.

The only reason she would/should feel anything negative toward Brad is if they were in a fairytale marriage and he up and rip that from underneathe her feet - and everyone knows there was no fairytale here in the last few years of that marriage.

[AgentOrange]

Mr. Pitt does seem to have gotten off lightly. Then again William Bradley Pitt spells "Partially Liable Dimwit".

[CherryDarling]

Originally Posted by Icepik

^^^Why does Jennifer have every right to kill Brad? I'm sure within the confines of their marriage, she knows better than anyone why the marriage didn't work out. If anything, the only thing she should feel is acceptance of a marriage that was not meant to be.

The only reason she would/should feel anything negative toward Brad is if they were in a fairytale marriage and he up and rip that from underneathe her feet - and everyone knows there was no fairytale here in the last few years of that marriage.

I didn't mean literally kill him--I guess I was just getting to the fact that I know how it feels to be cheated on--one of my ex's cheated on me with several women and I felt like I was the last to know, all of my friends knew and I just kept hiding my head in the sand, choosing to believe him and ignoring the signs. (this is how I relate to Jen) I've learned from it though.

With Jen, I think she just had the wind knocked out of her I would think that the instant reaction would've been--I want to KILL the SOB for doing this to me!!!!!!!!!!!! However, that's bad karma...and I would think that Jen is a big enough person to have gone through the stages of being hurt, picking herself back up again and then rising above everything

[Icepik]

Originally Posted by prnjcq7

I didn't mean literally kill him--I guess I was just getting to the fact that I know how it feels to be cheated on--one of my ex's cheated on me with several women and I felt like I was the last to know, all of my friends knew and I just kept hiding my head in the sand, choosing to believe him and ignoring the signs. (this is how I relate to Jen) I've learned from it though.

With Jen, I think she just had the wind knocked out of her I would think that the instant reaction would've been--I want to KILL the SOB for doing this to me!!!!!!!!!!!! However, that's bad karma...and I would think that Jen is a big enough person to have gone through the stages of being hurt, picking herself back up again and then rising above everything

Well, no, I didn't think you meant literally. I was just trying to point out that in a marriage, when a couple knows they are nearing the end, it is something they know. Jennifer knew. Brad knew.

[PrettyGirl]

Do we even truly know if Brad and Jen were even still together when he started his romance with Angelina?! Technically still married, yes, but I tell you, he had spent months alone on the set of Oceans 12 where Jen HADN'T gone to visit him the year before. I suspect they were already secretly separated when he began filming Mr. and Mrs. Smith but they hadn't disclosed that bit of information to the press. And I think that says a lot when you have the money and the capability to go visit your husband at work at least for one day and you choose NOT to for months. That says a lot. It says that to some degree, Jen had already given up on the marriage.

Also, let's face it, just like men, we women have big egos too. I know I've been in relationships where I was with men and the relationships were basically over. We basically were single, but no one really said it or wanted to say it. But I started avoiding phonecalls. I wasn't as interested in making the guy happy anymore. I wouldn't go visit the man as much. Then when I suspected they had met other women, I was like okay, cool. It didn't feel good, but I was expecting it. There are some women who would totally go ballistic and flip out. They'd accuse a man of cheating or being deceitful because they'd want a 'formal' breakup or they'd twist things around to play the victim when in all reality, it's been over for a looong time. There are so many personality types, it's crazy.

I can't call Brad a cheater. Not even Jen has publicly called him a cheater. She's just said it didn't exactly make her day knowing he was now with Angelina Jolie. That's fair and it's normal. It's a woman's ego. It wouldn't make ANY woman feel good, but it doesn't mean her marriage was still intact. I have absolutely no idea what their status was at the time he began dating Angelina and until one of them actually say it, I won't assume Angelina was this homewrecker who ruined Jennifer Aniston's wonderful marriage. That marriage could've been over months before Angelina ever came into the picture.

[CherryDarling]

Originally Posted by Icepik

Well, no, I didn't think you meant literally. I was just trying to point out that in a marriage, when a couple knows they are nearing the end, it is something they know. Jennifer knew. Brad knew.

Oh I agree...but I think she kind of knew but was in denial...ya know?

[Mira]

ITA with PRNJCQ7. Camille Paglia: White middle-class women identify with Jennifer Aniston's humiliation (not quoting entire post for sake of brevity)

About a year before the split, before Brad worked with Angelina on the movie, he made a public statement that made me think to myself: "OK, here we go. The countdown begins." He commented that he didn't know that relationships were forever and some other stuff I don't remember. The fact is, their marriage was already on its way out. Angelina Jolie was most definitely not a home-wrecker.

Some men like edgy women. Jennifer Aniston might be edgy (rumors about that) but she's not edgy the way Angelina Jolie is edgy. It's great that AJ has channeled her significant energies and demons into worthy work, and it's also perfectly acceptable for JA to live her life the way she chooses. I'm an astrologer, and I find it interesting that Angelina Jolie, Princess Diana, Madonna, etc. have significant Mars/Pluto configurations going on in their charts. These women are/were dynamos, and nothing will stop them from living their lives the way they want to. All these women are/were major control freaks. Mars/Pluto can be channeled into positive energy and it's obvious they've all tried to do that. But the edginess is ever-present.

What I've been realizing more and more about showbiz is that these people beard for each other all the time, and it doesn't always have to do with actual sex. People make deals in order to get what they want. Brad has long wanted children and he's doing it on terms that he obviously wants or is willing to settle for, or a combination of both.

As for the lack of touchy-feely desires, there are tons of people in the world like that. It doesn't make someone a bad person, but it can wreak havoc in relationships.

(oh and PG ^ has some good comments too, as do others here.)

[CherryDarling]

Originally Posted by Mira

ITA with PRNJCQ7. Camille Paglia: White middle-class women identify with Jennifer Aniston's humiliation (not quoting entire post for sake of brevity)
I'm an astrologer, and I find it interesting that Angelina Jolie, Princess Diana, Madonna, etc. have significant Mars/Pluto configurations going on in their charts. These women are/were dynamos, and nothing will stop them from living their lives the way they want to. All these women are/were major control freaks. Mars/Pluto can be channeled into positive energy and it's obvious they've all tried to do that. But the edginess is ever-present.

Thanks Mira I'm an astrologer too! I would love to look at AJ and JA's charts, do you have the info? If so, PM me please w/the details. I don't wanna be a thread-jacker. Mars/Pluto combos...that makes soooo much sense.

[PrettyGirl]

Dang, Mira, do my horoscope. I wonder what makes me tick...lol I wonder what sort of Mars/Pluto configurations I have!

[SlimandSexxy]

Is this thread for real?!?!? Isn't this just a re-hash of the other thread.........arrrghhhhhhh!!!!! I HATE THE TWO FUCKERS, but I am sick to death of looking at threads about them, talk more of actually joining in the convo, and yes, sick to death of hearing about Jen too.