'Geisha' filmmakers defend casting choices

[muchlove]

HONG KONG - The makers of "Memoirs of a Geisha" expected to be lauded for creating the first big-budget Hollywood movie with Asian actors in every leading role. Instead, they find themselves defending casting decisions that have inflamed historical tensions between Japan and China.

The English-language film is set in Japan and adapted from the American novel. It stars Chinese actresses Ziyi Zhang and Gong Li, and Chinese-Malaysian actress Michelle Yeoh. They join several Japanese performers, including Ken Watanabe.

For months, the Internet has been filled with vitriolic debate over cultural insensitivity, and Zhang has been denounced in China for her starring role. The arguments boil down to this: A movie about Japanese culture should have a Japanese actress in the lead.

The filmmakers, however, thought that would be shortsighted and discriminatory. Producers Douglas Wick ("Gladiator") and Lucy Fisher, and director Rob Marshall ("Chicago"), say the casting was an exhaustive, meticulous process that considered acting ability, star power and physical traits.

"Some Japanese actresses didn't even want to audition, because they couldn't speak English and were too afraid to try to take it on," Fisher said.

Marshall said that when Zhang auditioned, she immediately established that she deserved to be the star: "Your hope as a director is that someone comes in and claims the role, says 'This is mine.'"

The debate is somewhat perplexing considering that actors have been playing characters of different nationalities throughout the history of film.

"When you saw 'Zorba the Greek,' and you saw Anthony Quinn play Zorba, was that odd to you because he was Irish and Mexican?" Marshall said. 'Or when you saw 'Dr. Zhivago,' and you saw Omar Sharif, who's Egyptian-born, play a Russian, was that something that threw you?"

Gong said she chooses roles based on substance, not race.

"As actors, we seek roles that challenge and inspire us," she said in a statement to The Associated Press.

"Think of all the amazing performances that would be lost — Meryl Streep as a Polish woman in 'Sophie's Choice'; Russell Crowe as an American in 'The Insider'; Ralph Fiennes as a German in 'Schindler's List'; Vivien Leigh as an American in 'Gone With The Wind'; Sir Anthony Hopkins as an American President in 'Nixon,'" Gong said.

But the symbolism in "Geisha," set for limited release Friday, is powerful for many Chinese.

During Japan's 1937-38 occupation of Nanjing, Japanese troops killed at least 150,000 Chinese civilians and raped tens of thousands of women.

Today, there is tension over Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's repeated visits to a shrine that honors some convicted war criminals, as well as the territorial dispute over the Diaoyutai or Senkaku islands. In April, Chinese demonstrators vandalized shops and smashed windows at Japanese diplomatic offices while protesting Japanese textbooks they claim whitewash the country's war atrocities.

Just the sight of kimono-clad Chinese actresses could make tempers flare: Chinese actress-singer Zhao Wei is widely reported to have been smeared with human feces after donning a shirt bearing the Japanese military flag.

"(Zhang) went out of her way to portray an outlet for Japanese desires. This is a loss of face for the Chinese," said one posting on the Chinese Web portal Netease.com. "The Chinese were comfort women during World War II, and they continue to serve Japanese in modern times."

Such history has created an Asian climate so sensitive, South Korean actress Kim Yun-jin, best known to Western audiences for her role on TV's "Lost," reportedly turned down a role in "Geisha" for nationalistic reasons.

But the American filmmakers had other concerns, like star power and ticket sales.

Zhang, Yeoh and Gong are somewhat familiar to American audiences. Zhang and Yeoh co-starred in the box-office hit "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," and Zhang has since become the international face of Chinese cinema with roles in "Hero," "House of Flying Daggers" and "2046." Yeoh became the first Asian Bond girl in "Tomorrow Never Dies." And Gong gained a devoted cult following thanks to her work in "Raise the Red Lantern" and "Farewell My Concubine."

"Obviously, when you make a bigger-budget movie, the more well-known the faces are, the happier the financiers are," Fisher said.

But does casting for charisma's sake mean authenticity is sacrificed? Marshall is quick to point out that while he did extensive research into geisha culture, realism was not his chief concern.

"I never intended to do this movie as a documentary-style version of the novel," Marshall said. "It really is a fable."

Some who saw the movie at its Tokyo premiere thought Marshall strayed too far from reality.

"I felt like I was watching a movie set in China, rather than Japan," office worker Yumiko Kamiyama told The AP. "I am big Zhang Ziyi fan, which is why I wanted to see this. But I will not be recommending it to my friends."

Still, anticipation for the movie remains high in Japan, and it has been cleared by Chinese censors. (China's Film Bureau did not respond to questions from The AP.)

"Most of the Japanese audience who attended the premiere of this film had positive reactions," Jay Sakomoto, president of Shochiku Co., Japan's largest movie distributor in Japan, said in a statement. "Ziyi Zhang's portrayal of Sayuri was impeccable, and many people thought she seemed more Japanese than a real Japanese woman."

news.yahoo.com

[SVZ]

"Think of all the amazing performances that would be lost — Meryl Streep as a Polish woman in 'Sophie's Choice'; Russell Crowe as an American in 'The Insider'; Ralph Fiennes as a German in 'Schindler's List'; Vivien Leigh as an American in 'Gone With The Wind'; Sir Anthony Hopkins as an American President in 'Nixon,'" Gong said.

These comparisons aren't that close though...it's more like getting a Jewish man to play one of Hitler's henchmen.

There is some very bad blood between Japan and China to this day.

And the not being able to speak English comment is pure crap. There are plenty of Japanese actors who speak English...it's the most learned secondary language in Asia, including Japan.

In the end it comes to the director and producers wanting to make money, he's used the actors that are most recognizable. End of story, just admit it, none of this, "Ohhh but...the merit of......." crap.

"...and many people thought she seemed more Japanese than a real Japanese woman."

This is such nonsense on so many levels.

[heart_leigh]

Originally Posted by SVZ

These comparisons aren't that close though...it's more like getting a Jewish man to play one of Hitler's henchmen.

Exactly! That's what irks me about Hollywood. Asians all look alike.

[calendargurl]

Originally Posted by heart_leigh

Exactly! That's what irks me about Hollywood. Asians all look alike.

no way.

[dexter7]

personally, i see nothing wrong with the casting. if a jewish actor played one of hitler's henchmen in a movie, big deal. that's just the way casting goes (and has always gone).

[darksithbunny]

I don't blame them for being pissed off. To me, it isn't true to the original form.

[dexter7]

what movies are true to the original form? is the movie/book bad because it wasn't written by a japanese geisha, or even by a woman?

[SVZ]

It'd be like casting Adrien Brody as Hitler. Because he's a recognizable actor, who's kinda from the same place, and kinda look alike.

If you don't know what the Nanjing Massacre is I suggest you check out these websites: http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre

It goes a bit beyond just 'movies' and it not 'sticking to the script'. There's a huge unspoken quarrel between China and Japan because of their war crimes, to talk about it would to admit massive atrocities committed by both sides.

Here's just some of the things I remember off hand:

Women and children were tied to huge metal rods and put outside in -40 degree weather until they were almost dead, then brought inside and dipped in hot water.

A woman's hands were frozen and smashed with a hammer

Sons were forced to rape their own mothers, fathers forced to rape their daughters. I think over 500 000 of these were recorded.

It's all been hushed up. No textbooks speak of it, nothing mentions it. We're talking a 800 000 to a million people being tortured and used as expirements. Ever seen a living human intestinal clock?

There are photos here: http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/page1.html

Let's just say if you never want to see some severed babies lying in a pile, a man swinging an axe about to behead a child,or a naked woman dead from rape tied to a chair, don't click there's much much more.

[ourmaninBusan]

My Japanese ladyfriend and I ought to have a few discouraged
discussions over this.

HONG KONG -

For months, the Internet has been filled with vitriolic debate over cultural insensitivity, and Zhang has been denounced in China for her starring role. The arguments boil down to this: A movie about Japanese culture should have a Japanese actress in the lead.

The filmmakers, however, thought that would be shortsighted and discriminatory.

What? Do you want to make Othello with an all-white cast?
(Othello, the Moor, was Shakespeare's great African character.)
Some roles cry out for a particular race, even if Okies from Muskokee
have a had time telling them apart at first glance.

"Some Japanese actresses didn't even want to audition, because they couldn't speak English and were too afraid to try to take it on," Fisher said.

A dubious claim.
I've seen numerous movies --mostly low-budget gangster flicks --
where Japanese actresses that I recognize from NHK and BS1
recite their English lines phonetically. They can't maintain conversation,
but they can read cue cards in English. Sheeeeeeeesh...

"Think of all the amazing performances that would be lost — Meryl Streep as a Polish woman in 'Sophie's Choice'; Russell Crowe as an American in 'The Insider'; Ralph Fiennes as a German in 'Schindler's List'; Vivien Leigh as an American in 'Gone With The Wind'; Sir Anthony Hopkins as an American President in 'Nixon,'" Gong said.

Let us draw a distinction between "ethnicity" and "race." I have
never viewed Poles as being a different race than my whitebread
English/Scottish self. I view the Chinese as different from the
Japanese and different from the Koreans.

Zhang, Yeoh and Gong are somewhat familiar to
American audiences. Zhang and Yeoh co-starred in the box-office
hit "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," and Zhang has since become
the international face of Chinese cinema with roles in "Hero,"
"House of Flying Daggers" and "2046." Yeoh became the first Asian
Bond girl in "Tomorrow Never Dies." And Gong gained a devoted cult
following thanks to her work in "Raise the Red Lantern" and "Farewell
My Concubine."

"Obviously, when you make a bigger-budget movie, the more well-known
the faces are, the happier the financiers are," Fisher said.

I think these producers are vastly overestating the box-office clout
and "name recognition" of those actresses. I've never rushed out
to see any of those women in films.

This was a poor move, financially speaking. A movie nowadays
can make 20-25% of its gross in Japan, and this movie won't
be doing that because they didn't hire a Japanese woman to play
a geisha.

"Ziyi Zhang's portrayal of Sayuri was impeccable, and many people thought she seemed more Japanese than a real Japanese woman."

Yeah right...and they used actual hovering skateboards in
Back to the Future 2.

[publicdefender]

Originally Posted by SVZ

These comparisons aren't that close though...it's more like getting a Jewish man to play one of Hitler's henchmen.

There is some very bad blood between Japan and China to this day.

And the not being able to speak English comment is pure crap. There are plenty of Japanese actors who speak English...it's the most learned secondary language in Asia, including Japan.

In the end it comes to the director and producers wanting to make money, he's used the actors that are most recognizable. End of story, just admit it, none of this, "Ohhh but...the merit of......." crap.

This is such nonsense on so many levels.

I AGREE 100%

[ourmaninBusan]

...the symbolism in "Geisha," set for limited release Friday,
is powerful for many Chinese.

During Japan's 1937-38 occupation of Nanjing, Japanese troops killed
at least 150,000 Chinese civilians and raped tens of thousands of women.

Today, there is tension over Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's
repeated visits to a shrine that honors some convicted war criminals,
as well as the territorial dispute over the Diaoyutai or Senkaku islands.

Koizumi is seen by many to be pandering to Japan's militaristic
right-wing sympathizers with those visits. These protests have
aroused such ire that some 20 Koreans, in protest, severed their
little fingers and mailed them to the Japanese embassy in protest
back about three years ago.

In April, Chinese demonstrators vandalized shops and smashed windows at Japanese diplomatic offices while protesting Japanese textbooks they claim whitewash the country's war atrocities.

The textbooks are being written by a group that is dedicated
to erasing "historical sadomasochism" by reporting only two
war crimes of note; the old textbooks used to describe about
three dozen massacres committed by Japanese Imperial troops.

Just the sight of kimono-clad Chinese actresses could make tempers flare:
Chinese actress-singer Zhao Wei is widely reported to have been
smeared with human feces after donning a shirt bearing the Japanese
military flag.

"(Zhang) went out of her way to portray an outlet for Japanese desires.
This is a loss of face for the Chinese," said one posting on the Chinese
Web portal Netease.com. "The Chinese were comfort women during World
War II, and they continue to serve Japanese in modern times."

I like Japan, but I'm not going to lie about the extent of their
atrocities in the Pacific War. When their German allies came to
visit, the Nazis were appalled at what they saw.
Severed heads adorned fences like the shrunken heads of South
Sea islanders...I could go on. (Perhaps they thought the methods
of execution should have been cleaner and better organized.)

[dexter7]

svz, i wasn't aware of all that. very disturbing...i guess if you want to take into account those horrible actions between the two countries then it would be very disturbing for people in japan to see a chinese person playing japanese one. if the movie makers' goal was to be extremely profitable in these countries, then he shouldn't have cast the roles as such.


on an artistic level however, i see no problem with it still.

ourmaninbusan wrote

Let us draw a distinction between "ethnicity" and "race." I have
never viewed Poles as being a different race than my whitebread
English/Scottish self. I view the Chinese as different from the
Japanese and different from the Koreans.

that is your opinion. in reality, we have "caucasions" and we have "asians". there are differences within a race (thereby you would have your different types of chinese, japanese, polish, italian) but those fall into subcatergories. i happen in fact to be completely polish, and i have never once been assumed to be english/irish/french. that doesn't mean i am not caucasion though, just as someone who is chinese, but who looks different then a korean person, is still asian. however, to typical japanese person, i'm sure that i appear just to be caucasion, likewise, to a typical caucasion person, a japanese person may appear just to be asian.

[SVZ]

Just a note though, there isn't a set list of what the races are.

It's a broad genealogically flawed term.

You can seperate race by genetic descendant, geographic grouping, or just a population.

If you really wanted to get nitty gritty about distinctions you'd have to look at phylogenetic trees, as well as alleles and genotype frequencies and differences.

The Tree of Life project only makes the distinction between Homo and Gorrila http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Hominidae

But Asians are much more differed in terms of their ancestry than is obvious based on appearance.

[dexter7]

i know there isn't a set list, i am going by how the world generally divides itself.

[SVZ]

Well......the British label 'Asian' to be predominately people from India as well. I think it'd be a big mistake to have Aishwarya playing a geisha.