Margaret Cho, on the Harajuku girls

[muchlove]

"Now she has 4 things all together, the Harajuku Girls. I want to like them, and I want to think they are great, but I am not sure if I can. I mean, racial stereotypes are really cute sometimes, and I don't want to bum everyone out by pointing out the minstrel show. I think it is totally acceptable to enjoy the Harajuku girls, because there are not that many other Asian people out there in the media really, so we have to take whatever we can get. Amos 'n Andy had lots of fans, didn't they? At least it is a measure of visibility, which is much better than invisibility. I am so sick of not existing, that I would settle for following any white person around with an umbrella just so I could say I was there."

bestweekever.blogs.com

[darksithbunny]

Man, someone has really lowered their standards.

[ourmaninBusan]

What a conceited b!tch.

Don't lecture me about white racism while I'm out here
discovering Asian racism, you twit. I see the stereotypes
Koreans put on their TVs--mostly uber-sadistic Japanese
soldiers and condescending whites taking over their country.

And no, there are NO blacks on Korean TV, just like
there are no Indos, even though you have 200,000
migrant workers living in constant fear of immigration raids--
they're afraid to venture out to buy food.

And frankly, in Japan, the harajuku girls are like that, and they're
EVERYWHERE in Japan. It's not a stereotype -- it's REAL.
Go hang out at Yoyogi Park or in Shinjuku if you don't
believe me.

[Pandabaire]

As I understood it, Cho was speaking about the stereotype of asian culture in white america - and I have to admit, we don't see many asian's depicted in our media and when we do, their stereotyped. I understood what she was saying. I thought she was very insightful and well spoken. The entire article is here:
http://www.margaretcho.net/blog/

[ourmaninBusan]

Another excerpt from her blog:

It is weird being Asian American right now, because I don't exactly
know what my place is. America is supposed to be for everyone,
and people are supposed to treat me like I belong here, and yet you would
never know that from watching tv or movies.

This is a pot/kettle issue. The TV over here doesn't make
any attempts to incorporate non-Asians except in terms of traditional
stereotypes that the majority culture will tolerate, even if that
means presenting minorities as interlopers to be feared.

I still get the questions about where I am really from. Then when I try
to explain this feeling of invisibility to those whose every move and moment
is entirely visible, they come back at me with, "Maybe Asian Americans
don't want to be in entertainment!" Yes he really said that. I just screamed,
because there was no other way I could answer without hitting him.

Grammatical inconsistencies aside, I am tired of this argument,
because Asian celebs do not show the same respect that they're
demanding of the networks in the West.

She wants to live in America and dictate to us how we should see
Asians, but minorities over in Asian countries don't have that option.
And they still suffer "Jim Crow" laws, esp. in Japan.

[Rusty]

I completely agree with Cho. Gwen Stefani uses those girls like purses or a cute shirt and doesn't even allow them to talk in public! Then again, i just plain deteste Gwen. Ooh and can't wait for her new show on Fox!!

[dragonlady]

Originally Posted by ourmaninBusan

She wants to live in America and dictate to us how we should see
Asians, but minorities over in Asian countries don't have that option.
And they still suffer "Jim Crow" laws, esp. in Japan.

I can't speak for other Asian countries, but I know that in Japan, many people are not really aware of racism like people in America and other countries. 99 percent of the population is ethnically Japanese, so most Japanese people are not even aware of racism in their daily life. As an example, it is common to see black people portrayed in anime, manga and toys as the sort of minstrel, "blackface", depictions that were common (and highly offensive) in the United States. After an American-led protest in 1988 got one of these books (called Chibikuro Sambo, or "Little Black Sambo") pulled off Japanese shelves, many Japanese publishers and others pointed out that to them, it was just a story, and they had no idea it was racist. Most Japanese people in Japan have no daily contact with black people, so most of their stereotypes came from the West (particularly America).

Its not just limited to black people. If you look at manga, anime, and other pop culture, all other races (even Caucasians) are usually depicted as some stereotype. And plus, we can't ignore the discrimination against Koreans. I would argue that Japan is not "racist" as much as xenophobic, in a sense. There is a strong sense of "Japaneseness" and an idea of a country with one dominant ethnicity, and all non-Japanese are intrusive outsiders. The word for foreigner (gaijin) literally means "outside person". There probably are some Japanese people who really are racist, and like I said, in some cases we probably should examine where they get these ideas about people they hardly interact with. And I'm not necessarily excusing this behavior, I just wanted to add some context. Again, I can only speak about Japan, not other Asian countries.

[MgMMD]

[quote=ourmaninBusan]What a conceited b!tch.

Don't lecture me about white racism while I'm out here
discovering Asian racism, you twit. I see the stereotypes
Koreans put on their TVs--mostly uber-sadistic Japanese
soldiers and condescending whites taking over their country.

And no, there are NO blacks on Korean TV, just like
there are no Indos, even though you have 200,000
migrant workers living in constant fear of immigration raids--
they're afraid to venture out to buy food.


Margaret Cho is an AMERICAN and has nothing to do with Korean Politics.
So...she has every right to comment on race affairs in her OWN country.
She is not a foreigner and I resent the fact that you imply that since she is of the Asian race she has anything to do with the state of affairs in a country she wasn't born in. She was BORN here. She is a fucking citizen.

[ourmaninBusan]

Originally Posted by MgMMD

Margaret Cho is an AMERICAN and has nothing to do with Korean Politics.
So...she has every right to comment on race affairs in her OWN country.
She is not a foreigner and I resent the fact that you imply that since she is of the Asian race she has anything to do with the state of affairs in a country she wasn't born in. She was BORN here. She is a fucking citizen.

CONCESSION:
Ahh, the mixed blessing of Asian heritage and American citizenship.
Yes, I presumed that she went to America and didn't realize she
was born in America.

It must be difficult growing up with children calling you nasty names.

Having said that, I still resent her for presuming that it's her duty
to fix our attitudes about Asians. I've seen plenty of Harajuku
girls and they are "overaccessorized" to a tee. Cho doesn't like it,
so she should piss on Gwen for hiring the Harajuku girls to...do...
(whatever it is they do)?


Does it bother her that on her own bloody blog,
you can see her dressed up like Patty Hearst and Che Guerava?
How do Puetro Rican Americans feel about her
making light of their cultural revolutionary leader
for the purposes of pop-culture grandstanding?

/tired of people bashing whites.

[emcee]

Originally Posted by ourmaninBusan

CONCESSION:
Ahh, the mixed blessing of Asian heritage and American citizenship.
Yes, I presumed that she went to America and didn't realize she
was born in America.

It must be difficult growing up with children calling you nasty names.

Having said that, I still resent her for presuming that it's her duty
to fix our attitudes about Asians. I've seen plenty of Harajuku
girls and they are "overaccessorized" to a tee. Cho doesn't like it,
so she should piss on Gwen for hiring the Harajuku girls to...do...
(whatever it is they do)?


Does it bother her that on her own bloody blog,
you can see her dressed up like Patty Hearst and Che Guerava?
How do Puetro Rican Americans feel about her
making light of their cultural revolutionary leader
for the purposes of pop-culture grandstanding?

/tired of people bashing whites.

those are political people, not an ethnic icon.

[SVZ]

There's enough inter-Asian racism to last a life time already. Especially if you're mixed with two different Asian races...I grew up Chinese, Japanese, Dutch and Icelandic And had *no* Asian friends until a few years ago. They wouldn't talk to me, look at me, or anything, for whatever reason. Might have been asshole kids, but from what I've seen there's some animosity between Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese.

[Mr. Authority]

Might have been asshole kids, but from what I've seen there's some animosity between Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese.

From my personal experinces, it's the same thing with us Hispanics. I had this one Mexican dude cuss me out because I was talking to his girlfriend, and while he was doing that he called me a "banana-eating Puerto Rican piece of shit", and yes I kicked his ass. So I don't know why it's like that with Hispanics, or Asians or anybody else. I wish people would just stop looking at race.

[ourmaninBusan]

Originally Posted by dragonlady

I can't speak for other Asian countries, but I know that in Japan, many people are not really aware of racism like people in America and other countries. 99 percent of the population is ethnically Japanese, so most Japanese people are not even aware of racism in their daily life.

Or you could argue that the islands are 98% Japanese
because of racism -- they want to keep Japan Japanese.
They dread the possibility of "Tokyo sabai," or the colony
of Tokyo, under foreign rule.

As an example, it is common to see black people portrayed in anime, manga and toys as the sort of minstrel, "blackface", depictions that were common (and highly offensive) in the United States. After an American-led protest in 1988 got one of these books (called Chibikuro Sambo, or "Little Black Sambo") pulled off Japanese shelves, many Japanese publishers and others pointed out that to them, it was just a story, and they had no idea it was racist. Most Japanese people in Japan have no daily contact with black people, so most of their stereotypes came from the West (particularly America).

I'm guessing they had no idea that it would offend people.
They probably didn't care that it was racist, because there
aren't enough minorities to offend. (You sound like you've lived
there -- whereabouts? I've spent most of my time in the Kanto
region northeast of Tokyo, and in Fukuoka.)

Its not just limited to black people. If you look at manga, anime,
and other pop culture, all other races (even Caucasians) are usually
depicted as some stereotype. And plus, we can't ignore the discrimination
against Koreans. I would argue that Japan is not "racist" as much as
xenophobic, in a sense. There is a strong sense of "Japaneseness" and an
idea of a country with one dominant ethnicity, and all non-Japanese are
intrusive outsiders.

I believe this is taking refuge in semantics. "I'm not a racist,
I am a racial separatist," is one example floating around the web.

The word for foreigner (gaijin) literally means "outside person". There probably are some Japanese people who really are racist, and like I said, in some cases we probably should examine where they get these ideas about people they hardly interact with. And I'm not necessarily excusing this behavior, I just wanted to add some context. Again, I can only speak about Japan, not other Asian countries.

There are no domestic laws against
racial discrimination in Japan; they did, however, sign an
international accord in 1996 that bans discrimination on the
usual bases -- race, religion, gender, etc. Japanese shopkeepers
sometimes forget that or act as if you don't know it -- they will
occasionally ban foreigners from their establishments, particularly
bars, public baths and jewelry stores, especially if you are Russian
or Brazilian.

Again, I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. It's Margaret Cho --
who gives a sh!t? But I resent the constant insinuation that
she's fit to lecture me on my racism. In fact, if she came
back to Korea after living in America, they might have some
antipathy towards her--especially if she's of mixed race.

[ourmaninBusan]

Originally Posted by emcee

those are political people, not an ethnic icon.

You're taking refuge in semantics.

If Cho can denounce Gwen Stefani for cultural insensitivity
for creating the Harajuku girls, then I should be able to
denounce Cho for showing disrespect to the memory of
Ernesto Che Guevara.



BTW -- He was an ethnic icon; he was fighting against the
United Fruit company (and other imperialist corporations)
on behalf of Latin American peoples and indigenous Indians
from South America. He wasn't fighting for the rights of
WASPS in Connecticut country clubs, was he?

[emcee]

Originally Posted by ourmaninBusan

You're taking refuge in semantics.

If Cho can denounce Gwen Stefani for cultural insensitivity
for creating the Harajuku girls, then I should be able to
denounce Cho for showing disrespect to the memory of
Ernesto Che Guevara.



BTW -- He was an ethnic icon; he was fighting against the
United Fruit company (and other imperialist corporations)
on behalf of Latin American peoples and indigenous Indians
from South America. He wasn't fighting for the rights of
WASPS in Connecticut country clubs, was he?

no, i'm staying on topic. you can trap yourself in an endless arguement by getting off topic.