Why I have a problem with Islam

**UndercoverGator** · January 10th, 2007, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by ohmygoodness

The definition of a Christian is one who believes in Jesus, and that's the only qualifier needed.

Not according to all of the New Testament. It does say that you not only have to believe but you have to show that you believe by following Christ's example and trying to sin no more. Running around bashing homosexuality is clearing judging others and indulging in hatred, things that clearly not what Jesus would do. True Xians try to live according to the words of Jesus and strive not to sin.

**Lobelia** · January 10th, 2007, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by ohmygoodness

The definition of a Christian is one who believes in Jesus, and that's the only qualifier needed.

That's wrong & ignorant. Just plain ignorant.

**Mira** · January 10th, 2007, 07:24 PM

Yes, and illogical.

**Lobelia** · January 10th, 2007, 07:25 PM

Logical fallacy? Bullshit.

By that "logic" I am a Nazi because I believe in Hitler, in the sense that he existed & did all of his nasty shit.

Stupidest crap on this board I've read in a long time.

**Mira** · January 10th, 2007, 07:28 PM

Just clarifying that you're referring to the other logical fallacy argument and not mine!

**Lobelia** · January 10th, 2007, 07:42 PM

Yes! Sorry for the confusion!

**ohmygoodness** · January 10th, 2007, 08:02 PM

Using the context of culture, individuals of any particular religion, for example, may tend to employ this fallacy. The statement "no true Christian" would do some such thing is often a fallacy, since the term "Christian" is used by a wide and disparate variety of people. This broad nature of the category is such that its use has very little meaning when it comes to defining a narrow property or behaviour. If there is no one accepted definition of the subject, then the definition must be understood in context, or defined in the initial argument for the discussion at hand.

wikipedia

I didn't make up the rules of logic, people. And I thought you put me on ignore, Lobelia.

**Mira** · January 10th, 2007, 08:05 PM

Let's get straight to the heart of this matter, ohmygoodness.

It seems to me that what you are saying (in other words, I am logically deducing) that you excuse people from adhering to the teachings of Christ and the precepts of Christianity simply because they say they believe in Jesus.

Yes or No?

**ohmygoodness** · January 10th, 2007, 08:30 PM

I'm not excusing people at all. All I am saying is it's a LOGICAL FALLACY, i.e. it is ILLOGICAL to say there are /true/ Christians. I DIDN'T MAKE UP THE RULES.

**Mira** · January 10th, 2007, 08:33 PM

Wait a minute. I'm off to a class now and I won't be back for 3 hours. But I signed back in to answer this. ^^

First of all, it appears there is a typo in your sentence so I don't really know what you are trying to convey in your post. Please correct that so I can understand what you are trying to get across. I'm lost.

As it stands now, your sentence seems as if you are actually agreeing with me rather than disagreeing with me.

**moomies** · January 10th, 2007, 08:51 PM

I kind of get ohmy's point. It seems weird to say true vs fake Chrisitans...it might be more appropirate to say Chrisitian or non-Christian based on belief in the religion, simply speaking...

But I don't think that logic/definition is practical in the real world (rather than philosophical realm) because there are those who claim to be whatever they are but they stray from the "true" religious teachings.

**Mira** · January 10th, 2007, 10:41 PM

Well respectfully I still need to have a clarification on ohmy's most recent post because it is unclear what he/she is saying. If he/she's making the same point I am, there's no debate.

This sentence is a fragment and therefore unintelligible:
"I'm not excusing people at all. All I am saying is it's a LOGICAL FALLACY, i.e. it is ILLOGICAL to say there people are /true/ Christians. I DIDN'T MAKE UP THE RULES."

(focus on the word "there")

It seems illogical to me to say that I'm a Christian if I believe in Jesus, but I don't ALSO follow his teachings or Christian precepts. (the Ten Commandments, for instance!)

**ohmygoodness** · January 10th, 2007, 11:28 PM

I added a 'people' in there that shouldn't have been.

These are just the rules of logic. I didn't make them up. Even if they aren't "real world" applicable, you still can't use them in an argument.

**xoxo** · January 10th, 2007, 11:59 PM

there are christian people whom i have conversed with who believe homosexuality is a choice and a sin.
so they actually believe some people choose to be gay, and are sinning by making this choice.
they learn this garbage in church.
how can one have a rational discussion with people who believe such nonsense?
i feel helpless in front of them.
i just don't know what the hell to say.

they will never come out of this brainwashing to understand that people are born gay, and born straight, and sexual orientation is a pre-determined matter.
when i try to explain this they say they will pray for me for being misled, and they will pray for the gay sinners they know too.
this is unfortunately the kind of religious persons i have talked to.
and i am just really not wanting to be around such ignorance, life is too short.

**Mira** · January 11th, 2007, 01:07 AM

ohmy, I respectfully disagree with you that it is illogical to say "true" Christians. One is either a committed Christian or one is not.

I believe what you are referring to, however, is the fact that it is a common belief these days that someone who believes in Jesus is automatically saved, and therefore somehow exempt from following his teachings.

And that, my friend, is what I take issue with and why I call it illogical. I also assert that it can be dangerous because that belief/attitude often leads to irresponsibility and laziness in many cases.

We are to not only believe in Jesus, but live his teachings. That is what makes a /true/ Christian.