Who's worse, Satan or God?

[kingcap72]

Originally Posted by WickedHo

^^ You have to take your massage to the messes?

Only if they're good, but I don't give 'happy endings.' At least, not for free.

[EvilMonkey]

Thats christian theology ( Satans kill count ) vs Old Testament ( Jewish essentially ) so the fundamental flaw is that in jewish theology god sits in judgment and Satan is just the appointed prosecutor of the case ( not evil or the devil as such more Heavens DA )

So taking that point of view Gods count is merely his judgments of man based on Satans case for the prosecution - ergo Satans scores jump a bit.

And speaking of devils

Who is that devilsh chap there
<------------------

Oh its me!!

[DitaPage*]

Originally Posted by Elise

God is responsible for the world. He is the creator & maintainor of the world. Correct? So if he is not responsible for the world, who is?? And don't say Satan, as Satan only has as much power as God allows him to have.

God gave man free will, so if man wants to murder, if man wants to steal, if man wants to destroy the environment, god is going to let it happen. He created it, but just like a parent creates us, they're not responsible for everything we do.

[Grimmlok]

... OR, God doesn't exist, didn't create the universe, we make our own rules and do as we please but pray to a fake pantheon of deities to assuage our guilt.

[Just Kill Me]

God is dead, yo!

[kingcap72]

Originally Posted by StayYoung&Pretty

God gave man free will, so if man wants to murder, if man wants to steal, if man wants to destroy the environment, god is going to let it happen. He created it, but just like a parent creates us, they're not responsible for everything we do.

Exactly. And some of history's worst events have been sanctioned by people using God's name; slavery, the genocide of the Indians, the Holocaust, 9/11, etc. But that doesn't make God responsible for any of it just because religion was used to cloak acts of evil.

[EvilMonkey]

Originally Posted by kingcap72

Exactly. And some of history's worst events have been sanctioned by people using God's name; slavery, the genocide of the Indians, the Holocaust, 9/11, etc. But that doesn't make God responsible for any of it just because religion was used to cloak acts of evil.

Debatable examples:

- The Holocaust was by the Nazis a political group that actually did not support religion as such although it tolerated it. Jews were viewed as a race rather than a religion.

- Genocide of the indians was about land.

- 9/11 about western politics and foreign policy ( although it uses faith as its recruitment / indoctrination angle on the weak willed )

Better example would have been the Crusades or The Inquisitions ( Both in the name of the Christian God )

And yes we have free will thats the point of the original God / Satan relationship. Satan prosecutes us in Gods court for what we do ( freely do ) so we are judged by our actions.

This does however fly in the face of those christians that go with this 'Gods will' fatalistic rubbish - The point is we have free will and God plays no part.

The first step to clarify the argument is the seperate the concept of God from the Theology of Religion.

IMO opinion if God did exist and intervened in the world the first thing to go would be the various churches / organised religions.

[kingcap72]

^^^- The Holocaust was by the Nazis a political group that actually did not support religion as such although it tolerated it. Jews were viewed as a race rather than a religion.

- Genocide of the indians was about land.

Religion still played a role in both of these, particularly disguised in the form of Manifest Destiny. Especially where the Indians were concerned. Because the Europeans not only wanted to take the land, but they also wanted to spread Christianity.

- 9/11 about western politics and foreign policy ( although it uses faith as its recruitment / indoctrination angle on the weak willed )

While I agree that's true, a large part of the hate that fueled 9/11 also stems back to the bad blood between Christians and Muslims dating back to your examples of the Crusades and the Inquisitions. The big bone of contention in the Arab world is that the West (Christians) have a foothold in the Muslim world. And then there's the U.S.'s support of Israel, another sticky religious point for Muslims in the Middle East.

Bottom line, religion is always part and parcel of much of the bad blood, past and present, between many of the cultures/countries. There are always other factors, but religion or differing religious ideologies are always in the mix.

[Just Kill Me]

So now God's inaction is proof of his existence? Jesus Christ; wow, typing that makes me laugh.

[Grimmlok]

Yeah.

No terrorists have attacked me since I bought this pen.

My pen keeps terrorists at bay!

[Just Kill Me]

Is it a special pen for Presidential Signing Statements?

[EvilMonkey]

Originally Posted by Just Kill Me

So now God's inaction is proof of his existence? Jesus Christ; wow, typing that makes me laugh.

Yes Fundamentally this is the raw concept of God.

This is why the 'Jesus' Thing doesn't work.

Douglas Adams did it best in Hitchhikers Guide but the simple concept is that Man has free will and God doesn't interfere - However to get to heaven you need to follow the basic morality he set and have Faith.

Its simply a form of control by a Governing body ( read Church ) to keep things stable. Be Good or in the afterlife you will not go to heaven with God who exists but cannot prove it because he said he wouldn't and gods word is infallible - so if he did prove his existence then he isn't infallible anymore. ( and negates his own existence ) a Catch 22.

So how does Christian Theology cover this one???

Its always been about controlling populations. Remeber these people were not privy to the education and scientific fact we have established in the last few thousand years.

Lets take Mad Cows Disease. Today we discover BSE and find a link to CJD which is fatal to humans so we say 'Dont eat beef from BSE infected Cows' Being educated we understand the concept of cellular mutation and disease.

Now lets go back to old testament times. Hmm eating Pig is making people sick and the Church/ Govt has to do its job of looking after the people. "Ok everyone God Says dont eat Pig"

It amazes me that in this age people still cling to the same beliefs of 2000 years ago despite the massive leaps in knowledge since then.

[Just Kill Me]

42!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Grimmlok]

"Don't forget to bring a towel!"

[Just Kill Me]

That's the most important thing; everyone knows you've got to take a towel.