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Thread: Catholics, need help......please help me understand

  1. #1
    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
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    Default Catholics, need help......please help me understand

    I was unsure where to post this question, here or High School. But given that it is based on Catholism (sp?), I thought it best here.


    Here it is (and this is the short version): A friend of mine of over 25 yrs is a practicing Catholic, as is her husband. She has not been a strict practicing Catholic her entire life, but is now---and I mean STRICT.
    She had 4 children in 5 yrs. None were multiples, 4 births, 5 yrs. Her body is literally falling apart. She needs surgery to repair her bladder. She is currently receiving Occupational Therapy (when she has the time haha) due to issues w/her pelvic muscles and surrounding area. And the list goes on...
    I won't even go into the suicide attempts and laundry list of meds she is currently on for anxiety/depression,etc.

    She is 38 (got married when she was 32) and recently decided, after much soul searching to have a tubal ligation. Obviously, this is a problem with the Church. This is also a huge problem with her husband. He is the youngest of 11. Funny thing, he doesn't WANT more children, but since it's considered a sin (or something?) in the Church, he refused to even discuss it.

    Well......she had it done Monday. Yes, her husband knew. He refused to take her to the hospital, be at the hospital, or help afterwards. He will not speak to her. He has said he will never 'accept it'.

    My question: WHY THE HELL SHOULD MY FRIEND BE MADE TO FEEL HORRIBLE ABOUT SOMETHING THAT SHE NEEDED TO DO???? FOR HER OWN SELF PRESERVATION???? Because they cannot afford the 4 they have now, she cannot handle them now!! WHY WHY WHY??????? She is destroyed both physically, mentally and emotionally. I cannot understand why ANYONE would have issue with her doing this???

    Can someone who is a Catholic please explain this? And I'm being completely serious. I don't want to put down anyone's religion, and I will try not to...but this is insane.

  2. #2
    Elite Member DeadDwarf's Avatar
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    I feel bad for her. Her husband should be there for her, regardless of what his beliefs are. Even if he disagrees with her decision, how could he turn his back on the woman he supposedly loves?

    This is a huge red flag to me. Hopefully her husband gets his head out of his ass, otherwise their marriage is going to be doomed.

    ETA: I would try to be there for her as much as possible since she needs some support right now. It sucks that some people get clouded by their religion, I wish her husband could see what is most important right now.

  3. #3
    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
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    ^^I agree. I think it was doomed from the get go. Sorry to say.

    Like I said, that was the short version. There is far more.....

  4. #4
    Elite Member DeadDwarf's Avatar
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    ^ I have a friend in a similar marriage. They were doomed before they married. They are so miserable, it's very sad to see them together (when they manage to be around each other). But since they consider themselves super religious, they refuse to divorce (no kids either).

    Sometimes you just want to shake the shit out of people and scream "WAKE UP!"

    I would think that if there were a God, he would forgive people. People make mistakes, we aren't perfect. I really don't understand it either Lynnie!

  5. #5
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    She destroyed herself, and she knew the man she was marrying and now she's destroying him with having done this in regards to the accepted terms of their marriage.

    Sorry, but your friends problems are all her own.

    She shouldnt have popped out a billion kids. Choice. She shouldn't have married this guy if she could not accept EVEN NOW the ramifications of said marriage. Choice. She shouldn't be involved in something she can't deal with. Choice.

    Sure, the husband is a douche for pulling this "im not talking to you" act, but SHE KNEW HE WAS LIKE THAT. She should have left long ago, but she CHOOSES to be some sort of weirdo catholic.

    when religion trumps self preservation, that's a sickness.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    my family's catholic. well, my extended family. my parents were raised catholics but they were never practicing and didn't share in the church's psycho, anti-woman beliefs when it comes to reproductive health.
    luckily, most of the family is of the type that goes to church on sunday and sins the rest of the week but i have a few relatives that are very strict catholics (opus dei, even) and i don't understand them either. trying to have a rational conversation with them about this is impossible. 2 of them are particularly infuriating, even participating in anti-family planning charities and the like...
    what i'm trying to say is, it's not rational. unless you're also a brainwashed über-catholic, you'll never understand the logic behind it. after all, these are the same people that think abortion should be illegal in all cases, even if the woman's life is at risk. basically, their belief is that it's god's will that she die. sex is only for reproduction, and if you have sex, you accept all the risks that come with it. her husband sounds like a total asshole. for all his catholic beliefs, you can be pretty sure that if it were his uterus that was this close to coming out of his vag, he'd have the tubal ligation right away and his beliefs wouldn't get in the way.
    your friend's story makes me sad but most of all, it pisses me off. i tend to agree with grimm... she pretty much did this to herself. and she'll probably keep doing it and stay with him because divorce is a sin but being miserable for life isn't...
    and when i think of my relatives, who are both privileged, educated women who were brought up in pretty normal, not overly religious families... you wouldn't know it speaking to them now. they sound like brainwashed catholic zombies. i don't understand what it is that made them turn so über-religious as adults.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
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    Grimm, you are right. I think that is the majority of her issues (anxiety/depression) are due to the fact that she KNOWS she did this to herself. She thought she knew what she was getting into (marriage to a strict relgious kook) and thought she could handle a bunch of kids. Hell, she saw everyone else doing it...why couldn't she??? THATS why she is so depressed---why is that she seems to be the only one w/issues??

    She made mistakes, she knows it. She will never be able to rectify them though. This was just one little way of ensuring that there would be no more babies.

    So hard to explain.

    But thanks everyone. I feel bad for her....

  8. #8
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    If they cant work through their religious issues then she needs to leave him. She cannot stay in a situation where he refuses to talk to her or whatever.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
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    It may come down to that. She has actually packed her things numerous times, but never went through with it.

    Its a lose-lose situation.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    this is a repeating thing? what, is he a giant douche beyond this?
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    well, if he's this assholey and unsupportive even though his wife's reproductive system is falling apart, i can imagine he's not exactly a treat to ilve with. not to mention, he must be a horrible lay.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  12. #12
    Elite Member cynic's Avatar
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    Yeah, and I'm betting that although God told him not to talk to or support his wife.....he's probably been given the go ahead to continue to have sex with her even though it won't be "fruitful".....

    Growing up, I knew a family of Catholics who had 12 children.....none of those kids had more than 3 kids themselves.....seems like they realized that what worked for a farm family 50 years ago was not very practical in the modern world....

  13. #13
    Elite Member DeadDwarf's Avatar
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    I agree with Sputnik's post.

    Has your friend seen a counselor that is not affiliated with the Church? Maybe if she works through these issues with a 3rd party, it will help her decide what next step she should take. She sounds over her head, I hate to say it, but she needs to explore other options (i.e. divorce) with a counselor that won't brainwash her.

    Yes, she did bring this on herself, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be treated like shit for the rest of her life. We all make mistakes, her mistake shouldn't be a life sentence. Hopefully she won't stay because "divorce is a sin".....

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    He's a fanatic, not a Catholic.

    he sounds like a fundamentalist- like that Rusty Yates asshole.

    I feel sorry for her, lots of Catholics practice birth control...all the ones I know do......otherwise the world would be overrun with people.

    And there actually Catholic priests that would advise her that it's ok that she chose birth control. Not all of them blindly believe the dogma. Many are modern. Like anything, it depends on your Church's priest/pastor.

    I was raised Catholic, and so were many of my friends, and no one is running around with 12 snot nose brats at their heels. That went out with the turn of the century.....even in Ireland the super large family has become a thing of the past.



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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    This is awful. Doesn't the Church give the green light in cases where the Mother's health is in jeopardy? Maybe that is asking too much,but I thought they had changed that a bit. She should have told her doctor at the time of her last delivery-he could have done it secretly,I think.
    I am sorry. I grew up in heavily Catholic south Louisiana. I married a Catholic the first time.Most of my friends were Catholic. Women do not fare well. They are raised with Catholic guilt and used as work horses and brood mares. I have seen many accept marriage as their problem & bear it all. I have know at least 3 that left the Church and are happy about it. I have seen a woman ordered by her doctor not to have anymore children ,do it anyway,because it was her "duty". She had ulcerated colitis and weighed 85 pounds. The baby was born with only half of a brain. She devoted the rest of that baby's life (several years) to its care. She lost her husband and her son,but it was "offered up" to God. You can't fight that kind of hard nose devotion. Not all Catholics are like that, but he sounds like he is and unless a decent priest is willing to step in,she is toast. I wish her well,but Lynnie-protect yourself first. The emotional commitment to this looming bad outcome is going to be harsh for you,more than she. She had a choice. You might have to cut ties-your family has to come first and you have been through so much,not of your own fault. My friend with the brain injured babe and I are not friends anymore. I just cannot deal with trauma manmade . I truly believe God expects up to help ourselves first.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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