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Thread: Why I have a problem with Islam

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    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Default Why I have a problem with Islam

    Homosexuality and Islam

    In Islam, homosexuals (called qaum Lut, the "people of Lot") are condemned in the story of Lot's people in the Qur'an (15:73; 26:165) and in the last address of the Prophet Muhammad. However, attraction of men to beautiful male youths has been a part of the culture of some Islamic societies and the attraction is not generally condemned in itself.

    Homosexuality Laws in Modern Islamic Countries

    Same-sex intercourse carries the death penalty in five officially Muslim nations: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, Sudan, and Yemen. [3] It formerly carried the death penalty in Afghanistan under the Taliban, and in Iraq under a 2001 decree by Saddam Hussein. The legal situation in the United Arab Emirates is unclear. In many Muslim nations, such as Bahrain, Qatar, Algeria or the Maldives, homosexuality is punished with jail time, fines or corporal punishment. In some Muslim-majority nations, such as Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, or Mali, same-sex intercourse is not forbidden by law. However, in Egypt gays have been the victims of laws against "morality".

    In Saudi Arabia, the maximium punishment for homosexuality is public execution, but the government will use other punishments, i.e. fines, jail time and whipping as alternatives, unless it feels that homosexuals are challenging state authority by engaging in a gay rights movement. [4] Iran is perhaps the nation to execute the largest number of its citizens for homosexuality. Since its Islamic revolution in Iran, the Iranian government has executed more than 4000 people charged with homosexual acts. In Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban homosexuality went from a capital crime to one that it punished with fines and prison sentence, and a similar situation seems to have occurred in Iraq.

    Most international human rights organizations, such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, condemn laws that make homosexual relations between consenting adults a crime. Since 1994 the United Nations Human Rights Committee has also ruled that such laws violated the right to privacy guaranteed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covent on Civil and Political Rights. However (except for nations such as Turkey that were required to change their laws to be eligible to join the European Union) most Muslim nations insist that such laws are neccesary to preserve Islamic morality and virtue. Of the nations with a majority of Muslim, only Lebanon has an internal effort to legalize homosexuality. However, some Muslims have expressed criticism of the legal sanctions used against homosexuality.

    Reasons given by Muslims condemning the executions include: the fact that some legal schools (e.g. Hanafi) regard it as unjustified; the argument that the death penalty is not specified for it in the Qur'an; the idea that the punishment is unduly harsh; and opposition to the idea that the state's laws should be based on religion. The introduction of the AIDS pandemic in the Muslim world has also promoted more discussion about the legal status of homosexuality as the legal sanctions against homosexuality have made it difficult to intiaite any educational programs directed at high risks groups.

    While executions and other criminal sanctions curtail any public gay rights movement, it is impractical to give criminal sanctions to all homosexuals living in a Muslim country, and it is common knowledge (to foreigners visiting a Muslim country) that some young Muslim men will experiment with homosexual relations as an outlet to sexual desires that cannot be met in a society where the sexes are often kept segregated. These discreet and casual homosexual relations allow men to engage in premartial sex with a low risk of facing the social or legal sanctions that would occur if they involved in adultery or fornication with a woman that might result in a pregnancy. Most of these men do not consider themsleves to be gay or bisexual.

    A related problem to full enforcement of the laws against homosexuality is that while the sexes are often segregated, men are encouraged to developed close friendships with other men, and women are encouraged to develop close friendships with other women. Also, the Islamic law requires a certain number of male and female witnesses to the homosexual act to testify in court. Islam does place a strong value on the right to privacy in the home and thus homosexual relations that occur in private are theoretically outside the bounds of the law, although that is more theory then reality.

    http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/islam.htm

    To those national governments that because of their Muslim religious predominance execute, torture, imprison, fine, and harass gays I say FUCK YOU!!!!

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    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Lawdy, Sojita, we're going to have to smuggle you into hiding.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

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    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
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    Tell us how you really feel Soj! Let it all hang out boy!

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    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    The law in the UAR(including Dubai..one of the most 'advanced' muslim areas on earth)regarding gays:


    United Arab Emirates
    Statute: Federal Penal Code
    Penalty: Death

    Restrictions:
    There is a federal criminal statute, as well as penal codes in four of the seven emirates: Dubai, Abu Zabi, Ras al-Haima, and Sarga.
    The Federal Penal Code (FPC, Law No. 3 of 1987) came into force on March 21, 1988. It does not abolish the penal legislation of the emirates, but only repeals "all provisions contrary" to it. Moreover the FPC leaves intact the sharia provisions on crimes. The public prosecutor’s office will continue to have the discretion to charge a defendant with either a sharia crime before a sharia court, or a statutory crime under the FPC before a Federal court or under an emirate statute before a local court.

    Article 354 of the FPC is ambiguously phrased....In a semi-official translation in use by lawyers in the Emirates this is rendered as: capital punishment for "any individual who forcibly compels a female to carnal copulation or a man to sodomy". However the article can be translated as "Whoever commits rape on a female or sodomy with a male shall be punished by death".

    Article 80 of the Abu Zhabi Penal Code makes sodomy punishable with imprisonment of up to 14 years. Article 177 of the Penal Code of Dubai imposes imprisonment of up to 10 years on consensual sodomy.

    Most Emiris are Sunnis of the Maliki school..., in which sodomy is regarded as zina, albeit meriting a stricter punishment: both muhsan [a married man] and non-muhsan are to be put to death by stoning". (Schmitt and Sofer – "Sexuality and Eroticism among Males in Moslem Societies")

    http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/uae/...b_emirates.htm



    ^^World map with nations with anti-sodomy(read as anti-gay laws)gee what a surprise that the red areas are predominantly the muslim world.*rollseyes*



    Gay teens about to be executed(murdered or lynched really) for being found guilty of the 'crime of homosexuality' July 19 2005 in Iran.
    http://www.ogrish.com/archives/gay_t...l_23_2005.html
    Last edited by Sojiita; September 20th, 2006 at 04:43 PM.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! ediebrooks's Avatar
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    That picture is very upsetting. Those poor kids!

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    Elite Member darksithbunny's Avatar
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    They do this in public but in private, I hear its a different story. Someone told me that they use the women for only breeding and the men for fun.

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    A*O
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    Before you have a fatwah issued against you Soj, bear in mind that heterosexual sodomy is/was illegal in the USA, or certain states anyway, until recently and is probably still on the statute books in some places. However, I doubt anyone would be hanged in public for it.
    If all the women in this place were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be surprised - Dorothy Parker

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    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Well, Soj, if it's any consolation, they don't treat women any better than homosexuals.

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    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Exactly what I was going to say, PB. At least gays are allowed to drive.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
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    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Before you have a fatwah issued against you Soj, bear in mind that heterosexual sodomy is/was illegal in the USA, or certain states anyway, until recently and is probably still on the statute books in some places. However, I doubt anyone would be hanged in public for it.
    Iran has EXECUTED between 4 and ten THOUSAND gay men in the last 25 years...that is almost to the level of genocide to me. You would have to go back to the middle ages to find something comparable in the 'western' world. And as regards any fatwah I am damn sick and tired of people being afraid to criticize Islam because of how incredibly sensitive muslims are to criticism. No other religion(or group of non-believers) is so damn sensitive to criticism. If Christians, Hindus, Animists, Atheists, etc etc. can take criticism so can Muslims-to NOT criticize is to be almost complicit in their extreme sensitivity to criticism IMO. I may not like homophobia, sexism, racism, etc...but I am not going to call for the murder of homophobes, sexists, racists, etc. People need to stand up to the extremist muslims instead of sticking their heads in the sand.

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    A*O
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    Hey, I'm not defending the indefensible AT ALL. And I agree that many muslims have a major problem when it comes to taking any hint of criticism, yet are happy to dish out inflammatory remarks about 'western oppression' and 'the infidels' who run things. I try very, VERY hard to understand how all religions and cultural beliefs evolve and apply to daily life and admit that as a woman I would find the restrictions and expectations of Islam to be stifling, illogical and unfair. But there are some things that cannot be justified in the name of God, Allah, Jehovah, Buddha or L. Ron Hubbard and mediaeval bigotry about homosexuality is one of them. God created us in His own image, and since He is infallible then presumably He knew what He was doing when He included homosexuals in the plan.
    If all the women in this place were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be surprised - Dorothy Parker

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    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    ^^I pretty much agree with everything in your post. I can tolerate people hating gays, thinking we are going to hell, etc. that is their right. It is when those beliefs are put into government policy, put into action, and actually threaten the lives of homosexuals that I get really pissed. As much as I disagree with many fundamentalist Christian beliefs about homosexuality, I do not see many 'Christian' nations in this day and age enacting, establishing or continuing extremely repressive laws in this area. In this area most of the Christian fundamentalists are not as repressive in general as the Muslim fundamentalists I have to admit. Also where Christian fundamentalists do think in these extremes and would enact very repressive laws, there are similarly large or larger groups of moderates and liberals who will stand up and prevent the repression. I do not see any of the liberal and moderate groups standing up for gays in many Muslim nations. Gays are on their own in a Muslim theocracy like Iran-and the death toll speaks to what has resulted.

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    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    I am glad you posted this Sojita, the fact that leaders of such anti gay regimes are allowed to speak before the U.N. is despicable. There's no denying that other religions aren't exactly embracing the gay community. But it appears that those that openly murder gays in the name of religious law are in fact several Islamic countries. Truly wretched.

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    Gold Member Mavado's Avatar
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    I will never ever understand why gays are hated on so much. I'm straight, i have gay friends. My mom has gay friends. My stepdad has gay friends. What the fuck is this world coming too? I despise Islam. They execute women as well for not being virgins (when married) or if suspected of being "unfaithful". We live in one sick world. One time in high school, a male teacher hit on me. To add to my confusion this teacher was very anti-gay. Always making gay jokes and shit. So when he hit on me i was straight up told him, "what the fuck is wrong with you? Fuckin hypocrit, but sorry man i'm not gay. Second, stfu with you're anti gay remarks and jokes now that I know you're gay or I will report you to the school board of what you just did." Oh man the expression on his face was 'classic'. After that, he never, ever said something against a gay event or made a gay joke. I also had his wife as a teacher the following year, bitch sure is fug, lol.

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    Ok guys I understand what you are saying but that's extremely insulting. Because you are judging a whole sector of religion just by the fundementalists. It's like I judge christianity just by the amish, that would be a totally false misrepresentation. Look I'm muslim I come from Azerbaijan (former Soviet Union) 94% of my country is muslim. No women has to wear head cover it's a choice, all women go to university ( my mom, grandma and great grandma all have PhDs in mathematics)
    one of my uncles was gay and everyone totally accepted him
    It's really insulting when you guys say stuff like "i hate all muslim people"
    it's like if I judge the whole african population based on Idi Amin, that would be just stupid

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