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Thread: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

  1. #1
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Red face Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    Color me doubtful..

    The Chief Rabbi of Israel, Yona Metzger, has called for the creation of a world body with representatives from the major religious groups.

    Rabbi Metzger was addressing the International Congress of Imams and Rabbis for Peace in Seville, Spain.

    He called for the formation of a "United Nations of religious groups".

    The Imam of Gaza, Imad al-Faluji, said politicians lied but religious leaders had a different objective - to work towards a higher good. Which totally explains all the pedophilia and corruption and vast wealth controlled by said religious organizations. No really.

    The imams and rabbis at this conference, which opened on Sunday, say the world is in crisis and it is time they acted to restore justice, respect and peace. As long as you obey their narrow worldview.

    Straight talking

    The delegates have made it very clear that now is the time for concrete initiatives. The world has had 2000 years of wars, pogroms, inquisitions and insanity. I'd say enough with the initiatives.

    At the opening ceremony Rabbi Yona Metzger said his idea of a "United Nations of religious groups" could "bring a bridge between religions to help the bridge of the diplomatic way".

    That plan has broad support from key participants like Frederico Major, the co-president of the Alliance for Civilisations, the lobby group for international conflict resolution, supported by the United Nations and initiated by Spain's Prime Minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero.

    The speeches at this conference rather than using polite, diplomatic language have at times been brutally direct. When the Rabbi Metzger harangued mainstream Muslims for not standing up to Osama bin Laden, Islamic leaders nodded in agreement.

    Both Muslim and Jewish leaders have shown a preparedness to take criticism. Till someone draws a cartoon, or criticizes Israel's policies

    There have also been strong expressions of opposition to any killing in the name of religion.

    At the end of the opening ceremony, the Muslim delegation sang an oration to the Prophet Mohammed before resuming discussions about the ideas they plan to present to their Jewish counterparts.

    The religious leaders have three days to come up with a manifesto that aims to convert their words into actions.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #2
    Gold Member Karizma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of religions'

    I totally agree with Rabbi Metzger

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    Well good, then you can go with him to the Isla del Religioso where all the fundies will be kept, fenced off from the rest of the planet, so they can't cause any more trouble. They can either make a paradise of their new island or, as I suspect would happen, they'll destroy it and each other in a gout of flame and hatred.

    Shit.. daydreaming again.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! UndercoverGator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    There have also been strong expressions of opposition to any killing in the name of religion.

    At the end of the opening ceremony, the Muslim delegation sang an oration to the Prophet Mohammed before resuming discussions about the ideas they plan to present to their Jewish counterparts.
    How interesting that is considering if you actually read the Koran it states quite plainly that violence against people who believe differently is holy and justified. Only those Jews and Christians who pay a tax to the Moslims are not to be attacked, only shaken down for the money.

    Where am I getting my information? From Professor Mark Gabriel and his publications, a former Islamic and author the the enlightening book "Islam & Terrorism"

  5. #5
    Gold Member Karizma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    How interesting that is considering if you actually read the Koran it states quite plainly that violence against people who believe differently is holy and justified.
    wow for someone to say such thing with confidence i'll expect you at least to backup your argument by quoting these 'horrific' verses cuz the one i have doesn't justify killing (unless self-defence) let alone consider it "holy"..

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    Something about beheading the infidels...
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Gold Member Karizma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    Yes please continue am listening

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    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    Gracious, people in families who love each other can't agree on religion, and everybody knows not to bring it up unless you want a big argument. How on earth would all those people agree on a single thing? It makes me want to cover my ears, just imagining a meeting.
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    Gold Member Karizma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    I disagree i don't think it's impossible for religious people to find a common ground and respect their differences. well maybe it's impossible due to the existance of zealots but i'd hope the moderate ones prevail.

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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    Quote Originally Posted by UndercoverGator
    How interesting that is considering if you actually read the Koran it states quite plainly that violence against people who believe differently is holy and justified. Only those Jews and Christians who pay a tax to the Moslims are not to be attacked, only shaken down for the money.
    That is NOWHERE in the Qur'an about justification of killing unbelievers just because they are not Muslims.f you go read the Bible and the Torah, there is verses about dooming unbelievers to hell and killing them off.But then again, these are to be interpreted with care and their meaning can be quite different in the context they are written in. thus some verses in the Qur'an such as these..
    ["Now when you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks until you overcome them fully..." (47:4).
    "O you who have attained to faith! Fight against those unbelievers who are near you and let them find you adamant, and know that God is with those who are conscious of Him" (9:123).
    "O Prophet! Strive hard (lit., make "jihad") against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be adamant with them... " (66:73).
    "Slay the pagans wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place..." (9:5).
    These verses have a context, and when understood in their proper context, it will become quite clear that the verses cited above are not a carte blanche for Muslims to kill all non-Muslims.

    In fact, in verses like these of the Qur'an...
    Permission [to fight] is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged and, verily, God has indeed the power to succour them; those who have been driven from their homelands against all right for no other reason than their saying, 'Our sustainer is God!'" (22:39-40).
    "And fight in God's cause against those who wage war against you..."
    "...but do not commit aggression, for verily, God does not love aggressors."
    "...but if they desist, then all hostility shall cease, save against those who [willfully] do wrong" (2:193).
    But if they [the enemy] incline to peace, incline thou to it as well, and place thy trust in God: verily, He alone is all-hearing, all-knowing! And should they seek but to deceive thee [by their show of peace] - behold, God is enough for thee! He it is who has strengthened thee with His succour, and by giving thee believing followers" (8:61-62).
    Thus, in these top verses, Allah is implying to only wage war against those who wage war against YOU and if YOU are being persecuted first. At first though, you must try to achieve piece by every means and use war as a last resort if you are being persecuted. Thus in Islam, using means of violence as a last resort is only used if YOU are being persecuted.

    In the top verses about killing Jews and Christians, and unbelievers is NOT saying to them because they are of those religions. God was speaking to Prophet Mohammed about the Christians and Jews who were persecuting HIM. He was speaking about those unbelievers persecuting Muslims. Prophet Mohammed's OWN tribe, who were pagan and unbelievers were even planning to kill Mohammed and persecuting Muslims..In those verses it is talking about THOSE who are PERSECUTING Muslims.It is was to the point where Prophet Mohammed and Muslims had to flee Mecca from persecution by the pagan tribes to Ethiopia under the protection of a Christian king. It was in this terribly hostile environment that the verses commanding the Muslims to "fight the unbelievers" were revealed.
    “Permission (to fight) is given to those on whom war is made, because they are oppressed. And Allah is able to assist them — those who are driven from their homes without a just cause except that they say: Our Lord is Allah” (22:39, 40).
    Therefore,this was the historical context of verse 9:5 and others like it. Quite clearly, the verses are commanding the Muslims to defend themselves against the aggression of their enemies who persecuted them who were Christians, Jews and pagans, and they are not commands for the Muslims to "kill all infidels." It is clear, therefore, that this verses are for self-defense. The Muslims here are commanded to "slay these pagans" who are hostile towards them. It is not a carte blanche to "kill all infidels." This verse is specific to a specific time, and it is not understood by the overwhelming majority of Muslims to be a general call for murder against all those who are not Muslim.

    Infact,Islam respects Christians and Jews and does not say to kill them, it calls them "People of The Book" and they are seen as believers.
    Passage Q2:62:"Those who believe [in the Qur’an], and those who follow the Jewish [scriptures], and the Christians and the Sabians,—any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."(Al-Baqarah 2:62)
    “There is no compulsion in religion” (2:256)
    “The Truth is from your Lord; so let him who please believe and let him who please disbelieve” (18:29).
    Islam also says that there is no compulsion of religion and that each person should have his own faith to himself and respect other's faiths.

    As about the tax, Muslims pay tax too so do have the Christians and Jews. Just like in THIS country,we all have to pay our taxes. Since in the Christian and Jewish faith they do not have to pay zakat(the tax Muslims pay), Christians and Jews living in Islamic nations pay tax too which is placed in the government for their protection and to have funds for the money so they can build their places of worship and get benefits,etc...

    Obviously this Mark Gabriel teacher has instead converted to Christianity and holds a grudge against Islam maybe being surrounded by the extremist conservative Muslims. But those views surely do NOT represent the views of all Muslims. So,his views about what Islam is is what the EXTREMIST RADICALS believe and not what the Qur'an preaches. We all know how fundamentalists will take their own interpretation of religious books and twist it for their own personal agendas.

    This Mark Gabriel guy even criticizes Judaism.

    I know I made a long post, but I just wanted to clear things.

  11. #11
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    Very informative, thank you.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

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    Gold Member Karizma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    Hazeleyed Honey, i love you

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    I still don't buy it.. I see it as like the religious fundamentalist SuperFriends.. like ordinary religious institutions weren't bad enough with interfering in every day life, now there's going to be a huge one, all working together to spread their filth.. blech.

    *shakes fist*
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    That is the thing with religions, if you read into them, each person can interpret them differently, and these fundies will COMPLETELY interpret them as an excuse to kill and wreak havoc on the world when these verses in religion are not even like that.

    Let me take something like homosexuality as an example. Where it speaks of homosexuality in the Qur'an is with the story of Lot and Sodom. With this story these men were committing adultery and screwing with each other while cheating on their wives. So their homosexual behaviour was done out of perversion. So who are the fundies and extremists to take this story of Lot and Sodom and apply it TO ALL homosexual behaviour and even in today's context?It does not even mention lesbianism in the Qur'an nor the Torah!

    So,it is really all about how you interpret it. I am one of those Liberal Muslims and I truly believe these fundies are way OFF with their interpretations and there should be a revolution within Islam and other religions to re-interpret the passages. It is those male chauvinist pigs who sometimes get to have the position to be the religious scholars and implement what the passages mean.So they have the power to screw around wit hthe itnerpretation to pursue their agendas, when in reality, if you read these passages they are ambigious and vague and are more liberal than conservative passages.

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    Gold Member Delphinium's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rabbi wants to start a 'UN of Religions'

    If there is no compulsion in the religion, why do they kill those who convert to christianity? that sounds like compulstion to me.

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