Christian fears deportation and torture

[moomies]

Christian fears persecution if sent back to Egypt

Kathy Tomlinson, CTV News
He works as a security guard in Toronto, and has a Canadian-born wife who's expecting their first baby. He fears he won't be allowed to stay in Canada to see his child grow up.
"Staying for me is a kind of paradise. Going back is hell."
He's from Egypt -- a Coptic Christian who came to Canada in 2003 to make a refugee claim. He doesn't want his name used, because he's afraid his home country may punish him for speaking out.
He claims, as a young man in Egypt, he was beaten by Muslims because of his religion. His case was heard and decided by a Muslim member of Canada's Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB). She didn't believe he had a credible claim.
"She said that everything I said was almost a lie and she said that Egypt was safe for any Christian to live in," he said.
Coptic Christians are a minority group in Egypt -- roughly 9 per cent of the population -- and experts say they do face significant discrimination there. They aren't allowed to build churches without permits, for example -- permits which take years to obtain.
Christians and their churches are sometimes attacked by Muslims. In October, 2005, thousands of Muslims descended on a church in Alexandria, protesting the distribution of a Christian play being distributed on DVD.
The U.S. State Department's 2005 Country Report on Human Rights says Egypt is responsible for "numerous human rights abuses" against its citizens, particularly religious minorities. The report cites numerous cases of "religious discrimination" against Coptic Christians and says there is widespread "torture and abuse" in Egyptian prisons.
Experts say Christians sent back to Egypt after making refugee claims in the west will almost certainly be detained when they arrive, and quite possibly tortured.
"Just being detained in a prison is probably intimidation enough," said Paul Rowe, political science professor at Trinity Western University and one of Canada's top experts on Christians in the Middle East.
"Anyone who is a dissident will also face a certain amount of torture or certainly degrading punishment of various different sorts," he said.
"For sure I'm going to go back to jail and I'll be in jail and that's it," said the claimant. "Believe me, I will not be able to talk. I will not be able to even open my mouth if I am in Egypt."
He is one of approximately 20 Egyptian Christians currently facing deportation from Canada. In his case, the IRB member's decision was overturned by the federal court, which allows him to have a new refugee determination hearing.
Other Coptic Christians haven't been so fortunate; however, and have exhausted all their appeals. They are now being sent back to Egypt the same way they came in -- through the United States.
Some have already been turned over to U.S. custody. At least one was sent on to Egypt last month and his supporters say they have no idea what has happened to him since.
"He's just disappeared. He's disappeared from the record since he arrived in Egypt. He's gone," said Majed El Shafie, an Egyptian-born Christian, who now lives in Canada and runs a Christian organization called One Free World International.
"How can we send them back to be tortured?" he asked. "I think there is something wrong with the system in the Immigration and Refugee Board."
The IRB doesn't comment on individual cases, but its statistics show that, since 2000, approximately half of the refugee claims heard from Egyptians were found to be credible, and the other half denied.
Those statistics aren't broken down to show how many of the claimants were Coptic Christians. El Shafie thinks the new Conservative government should take a closer look at those decisions, especially those cases decided by the Muslim member of the IRB.
"If there was a case of a Christian persecuted by a Muslim and the (IRB) judge was a Christian I would also disagree with that. I would disagree -- and I am Christian myself," he said.
"These cases need to have a judge that is not this side or the other side. Just someone who is fair."
A reading of the decisions shows IRB members often believe Christians do face discrimination in Egypt, but they stop short of calling it persecution.
Board members often cite efforts by the Egyptian government to protect minority Christians. In order to qualify as a convention refugee, a claimant must not only face discrimination, but must also show the state does not offer them protection.
Canada's new minister of public safety, Stockwell Day, said he doesn't think the IRB is biased against Coptic Christians. He also indicated he has faith that Egypt won't mistreat them when they return.
"When that country has made a commitment that there is not going to be torture or persecution then we expect that to be followed though with," Day said.
El Shafie said Egypt has been very effective at making westerners believe it protects its people from abuse.
"The (Egyptian) government is dealing with the West and the government is expecting money and support from the west and the west will not support the Egyptian government until they are sure there is complete human rights for everyone," said El Shafie.
On the other hand, he pointed out, "While we are in this nice place (Canada) there are between six and seven thousand Egyptian Christians in jail in Egypt because they are Christian."
Paul Rowe says people at the top level of the Egyptian government don't actively condone abuse of minorities, but, he says, local authorities are still often allowed to act with impunity. Rowe believes Canadians should debate whether keeping Egyptian Christians from building churches, for example, constitutes religious persecution.
Rowe also said his heart goes out to the rejected refugee claimants and their families.
"I think we should be very concerned for these people," he said. "I'm very sympathetic to their case."
The refugee claimant with the Canadian wife insisted, if forced to return to Egypt, he won't allow her to follow him. He would rather leave his wife behind than subject her and their child to life in Egypt as a Christian.
"She can't go," he said, as they looked at each other with tears in their eyes, "It will be the end of her. It will be the end of my son."
"Whoever says there is no Egyptian persecution (of Christians) they just don't know anything."

Experts say Christians sent back to Egypt after making refugee claims in the west will almost certainly be detained when they arrive, and quite possibly tortured.
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/A..._prison_060316

[Karizma]

What the hell?! Yes Egypt is not perfect and my Coptic friend told me they face discrimination in the opportunities of jobs and getting ministers representatives in the government, but overall the country is safe and there is a peaceful co-existance between the Muslims and Christians. Yes the attacks in 2005 were unfortunately correct but the mob were motivated by 'Muslims Brotherhood' group and they created an agenda so they can win votes for the elections, which they did. But again Egypt is a beautiful and safe country, there are many Coptics holding high positions and very known, it's not like Burma.

[Grimmlok]

I think I'd believe the man fearing for his life over someone who's never lived there.

[Karizma]

^ suit yourself and how did you know i never lived there?? anyway i didnt say the man is lying, his individual case could be true, i said Egypt is no where close to being "oppressive" to minorities.

[Grimmlok]

Um, pretty much everything you listed above is oppression, and generally torture is the worst form of it.

*shakes his head* Why is it people need to go rushing to the defense of the indefensible just because of religion.. so annoying..

[Hazeleyed_Honey]

Well, the Coptic-Muslim tension in Egypt has a lot to do with the Coptics wanting independece,so it is more of a political turmoil for power rather than because of religions. I think they want independence ,I am not as sure.

Here is an article shedding light on the conflict..And some Christians in Egypt claim it is not persecution,but just attacks directed by some extremists to shake up the country. The extremists also are attacking Muslims.

APRIL 2000, pages 64-65, 83

Christianity and the Middle East

Muslims and Coptic Christians of Egypt: An Uneasy Peace

By Fred Strickert

“When you conquer Egypt, be kind to the Copts for they are your protégés and kith and kin.” So the Prophet Muhammad enjoined his Arab troops setting out for northern Africa.

The Prophet spoke from experience. One of his wives, the only one to bear a child, was in fact Coptic. Thus began one of the longest-standing stories of inter-religious co-existence in the Middle East between Christians and Muslims in Egypt.

Yet, as is often the case within families, it has not been a story free from tension, accusations, and even violence. One might even argue that the opposite is true.

In 1910 a Muslim hero assassinated Boutrus Ghali, a Copt who had served as prime minister, bringing about charges and counter-charges and numerous questions concerning the nature of minority status for the Copts. In the last decades of the 20th century, with the six million Coptic Christians comprising 10 percent of the population of Egypt, it seems that one violent incident after another has grabbed media attention.

Some of the first headlines of the third Christian millennium spoke of 26 dead in the Nile Valley town of al-Kosheh 275 miles south of Cairo—the result of Muslim-Christian violence. As the smoke clears and facts are revealed, the voice of tragedy speaks once again. “I am so sad about the people who were killed, the Christians, because they are like my brothers,” Muslim shopkeeper Abdul Nasser Abdul Rady told AP reporter Donna Bryson.

The Jan. 2 Riots

The wire services agree that the latest incident began as a common business dispute before escalating into a vicious confrontation along religious lines. When shopkeeper Rashad Fahim Mansour, a Christian, refused to allow street vendor Fayez Awad, a Muslim, to purchase textiles on credit, it was taken as a personal insult. Awad returned two days later, on Dec. 31, with several of his brothers. Mansour refused to apologize, and a fight broke out. Beginning with sticks and then guns, the damage extended to neighboring shops and kiosks.

Eventually Mansour escaped to seek help from police. Here the details are less certain. Some reported that the police were less than responsive. Others charged that several Christian passersby were wounded by police gunfire.

While the police attempted to quell the riot, most of the Christian community sought safety within their own homes as incidents of vandalism continued to be directed toward both stores and houses. The Cairo Times reported that messages rousing feelings of hatred issued from microphones at several mosques, and that a car drove through the town spreading rumors by megaphone that the water supply had been poisoned.

There were no deaths reported, however, until Sunday, Jan. 2, when the riot erupted with full force following Christian worship services. Setting fire to homes and firing at pedestrians from rooftops, the instigators created a scene of carnage that left 20 dead and another 33 hospitalized. The rioting spread to the neighboring villages of Dar al-Salaam and Awlad Toq. Some of the victims reportedly were afraid to seek medical assistance in a nearby hospital. As a result, the death toll climbed to 26, all but one a Christian.

Roots in a 1998 Incident

Clearly, this incident did not occur in a vacuum. Reporters in al-Kosheh were easily able to elicit comments from residents which pointed to long-standing tensions within this community of 25,000 where, ironically, Christians are the majority and hold prosperous and respected positions.

Some also recited a litany of previous incidents elsewhere in Egypt: the death in 1995 of seven Christians in the Delta village of Dimyana following a similar business dispute; the burning of 90 Christian homes in another Delta village, Kafr Damyan, in 1996 over the building of a new church; the death of 10 Christians in 1997 in the southern village of Abu Qurqas at the hands of the radical al-Gama’a al- Islamiya (the same group which attempted to overthrow President Mubarak in 1992).

Most significant, however, was a July 1998 incident in which several al-Kosheh Christians were murdered in connection with a gambling altercation. Again there were charges against the Muslim community, yet police suspected that the murderer came from within the Christian community itself. As a result over a thousand Christians were brought in for questioning, and there were charges of police brutality and torture.

Acting as the spokesperson for the Christian community, Bishop Wissa attracted world attention speaking to the media and seeking aid from human rights organizations. Attention reached the ears of the U.S. Congress, and reportedly first lady Hillary Clinton addressed the issue in a conversation with President Mubarak.

After the 1998 rioting the Copts of al-Kosheh began receiving political favors and recognition unparalleled in recent years. John Daniszewski of the Los Angeles Times noted that some felt the Copts were getting “uppity,” so that it was time to “knock them down hard.” Thus the current incident, although extreme, was something of a swing of the pendulum.

The Question of Religious Persecution

The strongest protests issued from the International Coptic Federation (see <http://www.copts.com>) with headquarters in Washington, DC. Describing the Jan. 2 incident in terms of a “massacre” and “ethnic cleansing,” the federation charged that a full-scale religious persecution was underway and appealed to the United Nations for intervention.

In a similar vein, the matter quickly entered American politics via the Freedom from Religious Persecution Act, which calls for U.S. economic sanctions against governments where religious persecution is taking place. Egypt, as the second-largest recipient of American foreign aid, has been singled out by some critics as such a country, along with Sudan, China and Pakistan.

Others are more reluctant to describe the situation of the Copts in terms of religious persecution. Just last November, the AP wire service quoted the Archbishop of Canterbury as reporting, following a visit to Egypt, “I haven’t encountered any hostilities toward Christians in Egypt.” In response to charges of persecution, he noted that “the further away you are from a situation, the greater the possibility of distortion.”

There has been some question concerning the accuracy of the archbishop’s statements. However, in many ways it reflects the view expressed at the Lambeth Conference on Christian-Muslim encounter in July 1998. Bishop Ghais Malik emphasized how “through the centuries Christians and Muslims have lived together, during times of joy and times of trouble.”

Concerning the issue of persecution, Bishop Malik emphasized that “we have to differentiate between ‘persecution’ and ‘difficulties and problems.’” He drew a distinction between the word persecution “used when the government targets a minority group and wishes to dissolve that group,” and the concept of troubles and difficulties which “are started by blinkered individuals or fanatic Islamists with closed minds.”

The latter, said Bishop Malik, “I personally do not call persecution.” He drew attention to events of the past few years when “churches were burnt down, Christians were killed, and Christian shops were raided and burgled.” By contrast, the bishop said, “this was not a direct attack against the Christians for their own sake, but an attempt by the terrorists to shake the stability of the country, hoping thereby to bring down the government and rule themselves.”

In a recent article in Christianity Today (“Egypt's Christians Seek Answers after Deadly Riots,” Feb. 7, 2000), Kees Hulsman questions, however, whether the Egyptian government has done enough to quell extremists’ actions against the Copts. While noting that the official government position is one of tolerance, there is still a poisoned atmosphere among local inhabitants.

A favored role within education, difficulties in obtaining building permits, laws which forbid conversion, all are said to convey a subtle message which creates hostile feelings for the Christian community. “How else can one explain that the fight between a Christian and a Muslim results in such an outburst of communal violence?” asked Bishop Marcos, who represented Coptic Pope Shenouda III in investigating the Jan. 2 incident. According to Hulsman, the government itself must be held responsible not only for allowing inter-religious tensions to boil below the surface, but then for the failure of government police to control the situation, as in the case of the Jan. 2 riot.

The Egyptian Government Responds

The Christianity Today article suggests that information gathered by humans rights organizations and international pressure already have served to improve the situation for Coptic Christians. Immediately following the incident, President Hosni Mubarak dispatched local Development Minister Mustafa Abdel-Qader to heal the rift between the Muslim and Christian communities of al-Kosheh and to assuage the concerns of the latter. On behalf of the president, the minister conveyed condolences to the bereaved families. Also he announced that a security plan has been drawn up to prevent similar incidents in the future. Likewise several Muslim businessmen offered to repair destroyed property.

Within days of the riot, local police began arresting those responsible for the violence, including four men who were identified as killers of eight of the victims. Likewise, an intensive investigation sought out persons responsible for spreading rumors and encouraging rioting. By the end of January, President Mubarak issued a statement blaming subversive foreign elements for instigating the fighting between Muslims and Christians in an attempt to destabilize Egypt and vowing to continue the investigation.

As for the status of Coptic Christians, Mubarak reaffirmed the government’s official position, “All are Egyptians in the land of Egypt regardless of religion.” “This time,” the CT article quotes Bishop Marcos, “President Mubarak is listening with two ears.”

Dr. Fred Strickert is professor of religion at Wartburg College in Waverly, Iowa.

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/042000/0004064.html

[moomies]

I'm just gonna add a few irrelevant comments.

I didn't know that a refugee applicant was allowed to work while the claim is being processed. I actually think it's illegal, maybe he's working under the table.
I'm going to apply to immigrate to Canada myself soon but while my application is being processed within Canada, I can only stay here on a tourist visa. I could apply for a work visa in the meantime but that is very hard to get because the employer also has to pay a processing fee to Immigration Canada (I think it's something like $2000? Not sure though, maybe cheaper) so most companies prefer to just hire Canadians along with other reasons like the language proficiency and having the Canadian work experience etc.
The article says his wife is Canadian-born and is pregnant. That would/should probably have some weight on the immigration assessment. For my application (I'm going to be sponsored by my husband for a landed immigrantship), there are questions asking the sponsor if he has Canadian citizenship or permanent residency in Canada and health question asking the applicant (me) if she is pregnant.

It just sounds to me like the immigration officer is biased in determining the legitimacy of this man's refugee claim.

[Delphinium]

If we allow mexican illegals to have amnesty to support the economy then christians from muslim nations should be allowed it as well.

[Grimmlok]

Yeah, just what we need.. more christians... woo..