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Thread: Warren Jeffs Prosecution Plays Audio Sex Tape, Rests Case

  1. #16
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    You are wrong about another thing. Here in Texas it is well known and well remember David Koresh was a pervert first and foremost.
    It's remembered well here too.
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  2. #17
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    Can someone clarify this for me, didn't they remove the kids off the yfz ranch and most were returned, wasn't Jeffs roaming around there? How could those kids be deemed safe with someone like him around?

  3. #18
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    He was no longer there when they raided the ranch. The raid was in 2008, Jeffs has been in custody since 2006.
    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


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  4. #19
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    That is totally unfair. No self respecting citizen condones that behavior or isn't outraged by it all.
    Not even the most hardcore right winger I know is anything but sickened by it.
    The problem is actually getting to them, almost impossible. They are protected by LDS off shoots, locked away from pubic vision or anyone who would scream loudly. I have heard a large portion of police,etc in Utah are protective of them, but not other states.
    You are wrong about another thing. Here in Texas it is well known and well remember David Koresh was a pervert first and foremost.
    I know quite a few right wingers and have a totally differnt viewpoint than they do, particularly abortion. But I can assure you assault of a 12 year old would send them reaching for the nearest gun.
    You will also notice the (probably mostly right wing) jury reached a verdict. They probably stalled to order lunch during that. Most of them-this I do not doubt- would happily given him the death penalty, given a chance.
    I didn't say that right wing groups don't care about child molestation. Fringe religious groups that perpetrate acts like child molestation, however, tend to deny the charges, then wrap themselves in the cloak of religious freedom, saying the investigation is a witch hunt. And that resonates with socially conservative groups and commentators.

    I heard a lot of conservative radio during and after the both assaults on the Waco compound. Guys like Limbaugh and Liddy and others were fixated on this guy being essentially persecuted for stockpiling weapons. To the point where his child molestation activities were completely eclipsed.

    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    What does that have to do with people making death threats, and angry mobs protesting outside the courthouses? Because that was what you were responding to.
    For years and years, Jeffs and members of his cult have been trading underaged girls with each other for "wives". Is the conservative media or any other media beating a drum over it? Not that I can see. Why is Jeffs the only one being charged? He didn't singlehandedly knock up all the underaged women living in that area. As far as I can tell, with the Jeffs trial over, a new guy will take over for these people and they will keep on perpetrating child rape without any investigation or intervention at a local or federal level. And there won't be any appetite in the American public for it because they will slowly lose interest.

  5. #20
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Call Nancy Grace. Maybe she can devote as much time to polygamist child rape as she did to Casey Anthony, and she can stir up the festive lynch mob atmosphere.

    There were some other polygamist raids this year, in Utah and Arizona. Perhaps they didn't get enough press to suit you, but they happened.

    And Jeffs isn't the only that's been charged. Raymond Jessop was charged, convicted, and sentenced to 75 years last year.

    Like it or not, proof is needed before charges can be brought. We don't live in a police state. And again, one of the loudest voices of protest on these raids is the ACLU- and they aren't right wing or conservative.
    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I didn't say that right wing groups don't care about child molestation. Fringe religious groups that perpetrate acts like child molestation, however, tend to deny the charges, then wrap themselves in the cloak of religious freedom, saying the investigation is a witch hunt. And that resonates with socially conservative groups and commentators.

    I get what your saying MG. Though mob justice shouldn't be tolerated in a democratic society, it also shocks me that so many crimes can be committed under the mantle of religion without much comment.


    The public outrage in the USA is clearly manipulated to fit an agenda. I don't think it's better to steer the hysterical mob towards any crime, as it distorts the trial process. Still, I agree, the cases ignored by the mob masters aren't any less disturbing than others they choose to focus on.
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  7. #22
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    The public outrage in the USA is clearly manipulated to fit an agenda.
    and the agenda is ratings.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

    -- Stephen Hawking

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    In the tapes Jeffs is heard instructing several women on how to please him sexually, saying this will please God, and panting heavily. Jurors were also presented with sections of Jeffs' journals, in which he writes that one of his alleged victims, "experienced a heavenly session with us and obtained a greater testimony ... though 12 years old, she has advanced quickly and got close. And she is being prepared to be a strength in the heavenly sessions."

    What a sick fuck.

  9. #24
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Call Nancy Grace. Maybe she can devote as much time to polygamist child rape as she did to Casey Anthony, and she can stir up the festive lynch mob atmosphere.

    There were some other polygamist raids this year, in Utah and Arizona. Perhaps they didn't get enough press to suit you, but they happened.

    And Jeffs isn't the only that's been charged. Raymond Jessop was charged, convicted, and sentenced to 75 years last year.

    Like it or not, proof is needed before charges can be brought. We don't live in a police state. And again, one of the loudest voices of protest on these raids is the ACLU- and they aren't right wing or conservative.
    Just to clarify, I'm not a fan of Nancy Grace, and I'm not particularly interested in a wild, festive lynch-mob atmosphere. I may express some over-the-top revulsion at heinous crimes that are described on this site, but I also believe in having a fair trial.

    That being said, if "perp walks" and multiple arrests (based on proper investigations) are good enough for Wall Street, they should also be good enough for child molesters who cloak themselves in freedom-of-religion protections.

    I also don't think that two arrests and convictions nearly begin to address the problem. Jeffs conducted something like 30 weddings between underaged girls and grown men in three different states, consigning kids to statutory or even forcible rape. I don't see the Government gearing up to prosecute the "grooms" of these kids, or the adult males and females who knowingly consented to giving their underaged daughters to adults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    and the agenda is ratings.
    Not always. Like I said, much is ignored that wears the jesusy label by mainstream media. Ben Roethlisberger and others have sure used to to their advantage.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post

    I also don't think that two arrests and convictions nearly begin to address the problem. Jeffs conducted something like 30 weddings between underaged girls and grown men in three different states, consigning kids to statutory or even forcible rape. I don't see the Government gearing up to prosecute the "grooms" of these kids, or the adult males and females who knowingly consented to giving their underaged daughters to adults.
    ETA- There have seven men convicted so far from the YFZ ranch. Five more will be tried.

    It's very hard to make cases like this though. You're dealing with extremely insular people who aren't willing to give evidence because they don't consider what is happening there a crime. And while we have an idea of what's happening that's not enough to give authorities what's needed to arrest and prosecute under US laws. And when there have been raids over the years, and hundreds of children removed like at YFZ and Short Creek, there usually isn't enough evidence to remove the children from their parents custody.

    The US government has a violent and contentious history with the mormons. And not just the government- citizens too- Joesph Smith was killed by a mob. There have been quite a few violent episodes between mormons and 'gentiles'. I don't see this as the US government protecting them, and most typical christian types don't even see mormons as christians, but as freaks.

    It's not a good situation, but it is what it is. You can't prosecute without evidence. And trying to get evidence in these cases is almost impossible. This is like the mafia, where people don't talk, and like organized crime prosecutions you would need people on the inside to shine a light on the crimes. But this is harder to break than OC, because mafia types don't tell out of 'honor' or fear, while FDLS member don't tell because of zealotry.

    What would you suggest the authorities do that is within the law? Not being a wiseass, just seriously asking what you think they should do.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; August 5th, 2011 at 06:08 PM.
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  12. #27
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    The US government has a violent and contentious history with the mormons. And not just the government- citizens too- Joesph Smith was killed by a mob. There have been quite a few violent episodes between mormons and 'gentiles'. I don't see this as the US government protecting them, and most typical christian types don't even see mormons as christians, but as freaks.

    It's not a good situation, but it is what it is. You can't prosecute without evidence. And trying to get evidence in these cases is almost impossible. This is like the mafia, where people don't talk, and like organized crime prosecutions you would need people on the inside to shine a light on the crimes. But this is harder to break than OC, because mafia types don't tell out of 'honor' or fear, while FDLS member don't tell because of zealotry.

    What would you suggest the authorities do that is within the law? Not being a wiseass, just seriously asking what you think they should do.
    I agree that an organization like this is very difficult to penetrate. And the Government has blown things by being very ham-handed in its large-scale roundups of people with apparently no evidence at hand (although the somewhat botched raid on the Texas compound is apparently what got them the evidence they used to convict Jeffs a few days ago).

    I could be wrong, but I just don't get the sense that there is a concerted, organized approach to going after them. For example, Warren Jeffs raped a 12 year old. The 12 year old's parents had to be complicit in this. Why not charge them, too? At least it would send a message that it's not just the actual rapist, or the ringleader, who is going to go down - but everybody who aids and abets the situation. And if I were a prosecutor, I would maybe let the parents plea down to a lesser offense if they would give information on who else has either committed statutory rape or abetted it within the community.

    It also seems like the scores of teenage boys who have been excommunicated and kicked out of the community - so that they won't compete for the women - would be a ready source of corroborating information for the crimes that have been committed.

    Rulon Jeffs' followers would have died for him. I don't think this current generation holds their leaders with that kind of reverence any more. With Jeffs heading to jail for a VERY long time (after getting out of his conviction in Utah on a technicality - improper jury instructions), I think a real shuddering blow has been sent through the community - I think people who have done some screwed up stuff are ready to turn on each other.

    ETA- There have seven men convicted so far from the YFZ ranch. Five more will be tried.
    That's excellent news, and I wasn't aware of that. However, I think this community is a lot smaller in Texas than the ones in Arizona and Utah. A lot more work needs to be done.

  13. #28
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^ As per my edit above there were 12 men arrested after the YFZ raid. Seven have been convicted and given long sentences. The other five will be tried.

    A prosecutor could offer a deal to parents hoping to get info on the higher ups, but a real religious zealot isn't going to take it. They believe. And true believers usually don't break.

    As for the boys, they would only be able to report third hand. I don't think that's enough proof. Rape and sexual abuse are tough cases to prove. DNA from a child fathered by him helped convict Jeffs, but they won't have that in all cases
    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


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  14. #29
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    Witnesses detail life of polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs

    San Angelo, Texas (CNN) -- Witnesses testified Saturday about the life and behavior of polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs, who was convicted this week on two counts of sexual assault on a child.

    Prosecutors say the penalty phase of the trial could last several days.

    The leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints faces a maximum sentence of life in prison on his conviction of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old and a 15-year-old who were his "spiritual wives."

    Jurors convicted him of two counts of sexual assault on a child -- charges filed after a 2008 raid on a ranch his church operates near Eldorado, Texas.

    Jeffs' nephew, Brent Jeffs, was one of several witnesses who testified Saturday. He told jurors that his uncle raped him when he was 5 years old.

    "This is between me, you and God," he said Jeffs told him. Three jurors wiped tears from their eyes during his emotional testimony.

    Texas Ranger Jesse Valdez and Ezra Draper, who left the FLDS in 2003, also testified Saturday. Valdez identified a number of documents seized during the 2008 raid.

    Draper said he attended Alta Academy between 1978 and 1987, when Jeffs was principal. He described being summoned to Jeffs' office once and receiving a lecture about his behavior, after Jeffs found out that Draper liked a girl at the school and had exchanged notes with her.

    Using a yardstick, Jeffs stroked the inside of Draper's thighs, tapping his crotch three times, Draper said. Jeffs then told him: "Better that one of your members be cut off than the whole body be cast into hell," Draper testified.

    He went on to describe changes that Jeffs made to the FLDS, such as banning parades, dances, music and even the color red.

    During the hearing Friday, Jeffs said he objected to the introduction of items seized in the raid and documents that should get "religious protection."

    He requested to be excused from the sentencing phase to avoid hearing his religion degraded. Jeffs remained outside the courtroom Saturday.

    "I am God. Cease. Do not present my holy ways as a thing of naught," the self-proclaimed prophet said before he left court Friday. "Hear my warning as a full awakening. Let my holy way be of freedom."

    Deric Walpole, one of the defense attorneys Jeffs had fired earlier in trial, is representing him during the penalty phase.

    Jeffs represented himself during the guilt-innocence phase of the trial. He was silent during most of his 30-minute closing argument Thursday, mumbling at one point, "I am at peace."

    Texas prosecutors rested their case Wednesday after playing a key piece of evidence for jurors: a 20-minute audio tape that began and ended with a man saying a prayer.

    Prosecutors alleged that the recording was of Jeffs' sexual assault of a then-12-year-old girl in the presence of three other "wives."

    The girl had grown up at Jeffs' Yearning for Zion ranch, authorities said.

    Prosecutors showed the jury a photo of her with her arms around Jeffs, and a marriage certificate that listed the girl's age as 12 at the time.

    Jurors also heard audio recordings that prosecutors said showed Jeffs instructing a 14-year-old and his other young "wives" on how to sexually please him in order to win God's favor.

    Prosecutors said the 14-year-old was Jeffs' "spiritual wife" and conceived a child with Jeffs when she was 15.

    Jeffs could be sentenced to five years to life in prison on the charge of aggravated sexual assault regarding the alleged 12-year-old. For the other count, he could face a sentence of two to 20 years.

    Jeffs' breakaway sect is believed to have about 10,000 followers. Their practice of polygamy, which the mainstream Mormon Church renounced more than a century ago, is part of the sect's doctrine.
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    Send him away for life and put him in the sex offender colored jumpsuit so he can be murdered in prison.
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