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Thread: Shooting at Ft. Hood Army Base kills 7, 12 wounded...

  1. #121
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    “When a white guy shoots up a post office, they call that going postal,” said Victor Benjamin II, 30, a former member of the Army. “But when a Muslim does it, they call it jihad."
    I disagree in this sense- If this man was a right wing crazy, people would be screaming about how this was political, religious, racist extremism. Rightfully so. A different standard is being applied here, to this man's beliefs and convictions. Why is it different? It's not PC to make those accusations against a muslim.

    Political Correctness now goes beyond the state of being merely irritating to deadly. What more proof is needed than the statement of fellow officers that they did not want to file official reports because they would be labeled as bigoted – and thus place their career in jeopardy?

    Why would anyone take a chance on bringing the PC Police down upon themselves? Why would anyone want to open themselves up to accusations of being "anti-Muslim", or "anti-diversity? We now make Federal crimes out of 'what you think' while you are committing a crime and and add extra harsh sentences because of 'what you think'.... Will this be prosecuted as a hate crime?

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  2. #122
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    ruh-roh, he's talking:

    Hospital: Ft. Hood shooting suspect awake, talking - Yahoo! News

    Put your bets in now:

    a. he was persecuted
    b. he was persecuted
    c. he was persecuted
    d. he was persecuted

  3. #123
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^ You're dead on. I'll take all of the above.

    There are reports about Hasan frequenting strip clubs (when he wasn't trying to win converts).....par for the hypocritical religious fanatical course.
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  4. #124
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I disagree in this sense- If this man was a right wing crazy, people would be screaming about how this was political, religious, racist extremism. Rightfully so. A different standard is being applied here, to this man's beliefs and convictions. Why is it different? It's not PC to make those accusations against a muslim.

    Political Correctness now goes beyond the state of being merely irritating to deadly. What more proof is needed than the statement of fellow officers that they did not want to file official reports because they would be labeled as bigoted and thus place their career in jeopardy?

    Why would anyone take a chance on bringing the PC Police down upon themselves? Why would anyone want to open themselves up to accusations of being "anti-Muslim", or "anti-diversity? We now make Federal crimes out of 'what you think' while you are committing a crime and and add extra harsh sentences because of 'what you think'.... Will this be prosecuted as a hate crime?

    1984 was a little late in getting here, but it has arrived.
    You said exaclty what I was thinking, thank you. PC is a national threat when we start putting people's feelings ahead of exercising common sense. Yes, sometimes doing the right, sensible thing means that there will be someone who cries 'fowl' or feels persecuted for it. We do not need to have a knee jerk reaction to people who are made uncomfortable by the truth by placating them at our own peril. There were statements indicating that one of the 9/11 hijackers made some awfully threatening remarks to a woman at the flight training station where they were learning to fly planes. Perhaps she was afraid of being called 'racist' if she reported them. If so, that's too bad for all the people who were killed that day isn't it? The difference I see is that had this been an Anglo-Christian right-wing extremist male people would not be as hesitiant to alert others to his threatening remarks, possibly because they are less likely to be interpreted as being racist just by being fearful of what he said. You aren't allowed to be afraid of anyone who isn't a WASP without someone accusing you of being a racist or xenophobe. I'm also tired of everyone needing to point out that there are extremists of all faiths and that they are all dangerous (it comes across as placating to me). I'm pretty sure most of us get that already, but we aren't talking about all of them here in this case...just a Muslim one. When a fundie bombs an abortion clinic or shoots a doctor I don't need to point out that there are dangerous extremists of all faiths other than just radical, evangelical Christians. I don't think it is racist or xenophobic to acknowlege that there is a disproportionate number of very high profile, blatant acts of lethal misogyny that occur in the Muslim community and that are actually sanctioned by the governments under which they occur. I don't really care if it bothers someone for me to point out that a lot of their practices and beliefs are more representative of where Christians were 300 or 400 years ago.
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  5. #125
    Elite Member ManxMouse's Avatar
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    I totally agree with you, Crumpet.

    Well, except for maybe the "crying fowl" part.
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  6. #126
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    It's not surprising that the first reaction of the mainstream media is to offer excuses for Hasan's behavior. The most ridiculous excuse I've seen for his actions (so far) is the Time story about how he may have been suffering from 'Secondary' PTSD. Are they fucking kidding me?...Next they'll be saying he was suffering "Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder' over his impending deployment.
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  7. #127
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Just want to shed some light on this with some first-hand experience:
    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    Added: The military probably held onto this guy because they are desperate for Arabic speakers.
    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    Someone else pointed out the linguist thing, and the Army is desperate for arabic speakers.
    Actually, the military held onto him because they invested a ton of money in his education and he hadn't even started his payback time yet. Besides, according to the Arabic owner of the place where the shooter always had breakfast, his Arabic was crap.

    Anyway, I just want to give a bit of background on why he wasn't released from the military. It all goes back to him owing payback time for his medical education.

    One of my parents went to a private medical school on a military scholarship so that's where I'm getting this. That's different from what Hasan did (he went to the military's med school, the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences) but the payback structure is the same.

    The thing with going to medical school on the military's dime is that you owe them equal time for however long you were in school. And sadly, they often aren't up-front about what counts as payback time. Obviously you have to do 4 years to payback for medical school. But to be a practicing doctor, you also have to do an internship and a residency, and the military DOESN'T count those as payback time. During a residency and internship (typically around 4 yrs), you're essentially a practicing doctor, and he was certainly in the military for these. And, on top of that, Hasan did a fellowship, which added on another 4 yrs- all BEFORE the clock even started on his payback time.

    The guy came out of 8 years of military service, and was facing a minimum 12 more years. I think this can't be underestimated as a factor in this. Thats a rough pill to swallow if you're wanting out of the military: you've just worked for 8 yrs in the military but it didn't even count towards your time owed. IMO (and my parents') its somewhat of a dirty trick to have the residency and internship not count as payback time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathie_Moffett View Post
    I think this guy's train went off the tracks a LONG time ago. I also think a lot of heads are going to roll that he was not gently ejected from the military before this. THAT is the real scandal here, to me.
    Totally agree.

  8. #128
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    I totally agree with you, Crumpet.

    Well, except for maybe the "crying fowl" part.
    Thank you, but what was it about the 'crying fowl' part that concerned you? Maybe I should have written that I do not automatically assume that anyone who gets offended doesn't have a legitimate case. I can even agree that sometimes because of the PC-backlash that people with genuine grievances have their concerns automatically and unfairly dismissed as hysteria, and the accusers are called feminazis, commies, or whatever. I just think that when it comes to threats of violence or statements that sympathise with such acts of violence we need to not have hurt feelings be the priority. Unfortunately, there are always going to be people who use their perceived victimhood as a rationalization to act out on others.
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  9. #129
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Nidal Hasan Tried To Contact Al Qaida, US Officials Knew Months Ago

    ABC News is reporting that U.S. agencies were aware months ago that Fort Hood shooting suspect Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan sought to contact people associated with al Qaida, according two American officials familiar with the case. "It is not known whether the intelligence agencies informed the Army that one of its officers was seeking to connect with suspected al Qaeda figures, the officials said," ABC writes.

    While ABC goes on to note that CIA director Leon Panetta was asked by Congress "to preserve" all documents related to Hasan, CBS News is reporting that a U.S. intelligence official has told them that there is no indication that the agency had collected information related to the case and then not acted on it.
    Nidal Hasan Tried To Contact Al Qaida, US Officials Knew Months Ago
    If that is true, that makes me furious. This guy should have long ago been court-marshaled for a litany of charges and had his ass sitting in the brig.

    It just blows my mind- a US military officer attempts to reach out to Al Qaida and nothing happens?! For fucks sake, my friend who is in the military and lives on base, gets written up when the leaves aren't swept off her porch. The military is so up in people's business and members get disiplined every day for stupid shit, yet when someone tries to contact Al Qaida, nothing happens? Its an abomination.

    ETA- now here's some really troubling news. There is a potential link between Hasan, Al Qaida and the 9/11 attackers:

    "The personal Web site for a radical American imam living in Yemen who had contact with two 9/11 hijackers praised Hasan as a hero.

    The posting Monday on the Web site for Anwar al Awlaki, who was a spiritual leader at two mosques where three 9/11 hijackers worshipped, said American Muslims who condemned the Fort Hood attack are hypocrites who have committed treason against their religion.

    Awlaki said the only way a Muslim can justify serving in the U.S. military is if he intends to "follow in the footsteps of men like Nidal."

    "Nidal Hassan (sic) is a hero," Awlaki said. "He is a man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people."

    Two U.S. intelligence officials told The Associated Press the Web site was Awlaki's. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence collection. Awlaki did not immediately respond to an attempt to contact him through the Web site.

    Hasan's family attended the Dar al Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church, Va., where Awlaki was preaching in 2001. Hasan's mother's funeral was held at the mosque on May 31, 2001, according to her obituary in the Roanoke Times newspaper, around the same time two 9/11 hijackers worshipped at the mosque and while Awlaki was preaching.

    Awlaki is a native-born U.S. citizen who left the United States in 2002, eventually traveling to Yemen. He was released from a Yemeni jail last year and has since gone missing. He is on Yemen's most wanted militant list, according to three Yemeni security officials.

    The officials say Awlaki was arrested in 2006 with a small group of suspected al-Qaida militants in the capital San'a. They say he was released more than a year later after signing a pledge he will not break the law or leave the country. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

    The Falls Church mosque is one of the largest on the East Coast, and thousands of worshippers attend prayers and services there every week.

    Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, outreach director at Dar al Hijrah, said he did not know whether Hasan ever attended the mosque but confirmed that the Hasan family participated in services there. Abdul-Malik said the Hasans were not leaders at the mosque and their attendance was normal.

    The London Telegraph first reported the potential link between Hasan and the mosque.
    Hospital: Ft. Hood shooting suspect awake, talking
    I just don't even know what to do with that piece of information. I hope that there isn't a proven contact there because if there is, this is going to be one helluva firestorm.
    Last edited by Cali; November 9th, 2009 at 03:21 PM.

  10. #130
    Elite Member ManxMouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Thank you, but what was it about the 'crying fowl' part that concerned you? Maybe I should have written that I do not automatically assume that anyone who gets offended doesn't have a legitimate case. I can even agree that sometimes because of the PC-backlash that people with genuine grievances have their concerns automatically and unfairly dismissed as hysteria, and the accusers are called feminazis, commies, or whatever. I just think that when it comes to threats of violence or statements that sympathise with such acts of violence we need to not have hurt feelings be the priority. Unfortunately, there are always going to be people who use their perceived victimhood as a rationalization to act out on others.
    Sorry Crumpet, I was being a little bit goofy there....I wasn't disagreeing with the substance. It's just that the term is "crying foul," and crying fowl made me think of sad chickens.
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  11. #131
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    Sorry Crumpet, I was being a little bit goofy there....I wasn't disagreeing with the substance. It's just that the term is "crying foul," and crying fowl made me think of sad chickens.
    Oh, shit, you're right!!!! My bad. That is actually a hilarious mistake,though. Sad chickens.....
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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    It's not surprising that the first reaction of the mainstream media is to offer excuses for Hasan's behavior. The most ridiculous excuse I've seen for his actions (so far) is the Time story about how he may have been suffering from 'Secondary' PTSD. Are they fucking kidding me?...Next they'll be saying he was suffering "Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder' over his impending deployment.
    Yea I had to laugh at that one, I was like, WTF?

    Give me a break!

  13. #133
    A*O
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    Interesting that we are having this debate here at GR whereas the US media is generally avoiding the whole Muslim "enemy within" aspect of the story. Not saying things are being censored, but there's a big elephant in the corner of the room on this one that nobody seems willing to acknowledge.
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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Interesting that we are having this debate here at GR whereas the US media is generally avoiding the whole Muslim "enemy within" aspect of the story. Not saying things are being censored, but there's a big elephant in the corner of the room on this one that nobody seems willing to acknowledge.
    Well, if the media does the 'Muslim enemy within' story then they have to do the 'Christian enemy within' story, too. Because more right-wing Christian nutjobs have been going off the deep-end this year in the U.S. than the Muslim nutjobs. But the Christians aren't considered terrorists or enemies of the state like the Muslims are.

  15. #135
    A*O
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    But...but.... Christians are AMERICAN PATRIOTS and Muslims are TERRORISTS, right?
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