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Thread: Shooting at Ft. Hood Army Base kills 7, 12 wounded...

  1. #166
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    Sometimes, an extremist really is an extremist

    Sometimes, an extremist really is an extremist -- latimes.com

    Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan demonstrated many things when he allegedly committed treason in the war on terror. For starters, he showed -- gratuitously alas -- that evil is still thriving.

    He demonstrated that being a trained psychiatrist provides no immunity to ancient hatreds and religious fanaticism, nor does psychiatric training provide much acuity in spotting such things in others.

    For example, the London Telegraph reports that, in what was supposed to be a medical lecture, Hassan instead gave an hourlong briefing on the Koran, explaining to colleagues at Walter Reed Army Medical Center that nonbelievers should be beheaded, have boiling oil poured down their throats and set on fire.

    His fellow psychiatrists completely missed this "red flag" -- a suddenly popular euphemism for incandescently obvious evidence this man had no place in the U.S. Army.

    He proved how lacking our domestic security system is. According to ABC News, intelligence agencies were aware for months that Hasan had tried to contact Al Qaeda. His colleagues reportedly knew he sympathized with suicide bombings and attacks on U.S. troops abroad, and one colleague said Hasan was pleased by an attack on an Army recruiting office and suggested more of the same might be desirable. That's treason, even if you're a Muslim.

    Which raises the most troubling revelation: For a very large number of people, the idea that he is a Muslim fanatic, motivated by other Muslim fanatics, was -- at least initially -- too terrible to contemplate. How else to explain the reflexive insistence after the attack that the real culprit was "post-traumatic stress disorder"? The fact that PTSD is usually diagnosed in people who've been through trauma (hence the word "post"), and that Hasan had never in fact seen combat, didn't seem to matter much.

    Apparently the "P" in PTSD can now stand for "pre."

    A few months ago, an anti-Semitic old nut named James von Brunn allegedly took a gun to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum to get payback against "the Jews" and killed a black security guard in the process.

    In response to this horrific crime, the leading lights of American liberalism knew who was to blame: Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and the GOP. One writer for the Huffington Post put it succinctly: "Thank you very much Karl Rove and your minions."

    The fact that Von Brunn was a 9/11 "truther" who railed against capitalism, neocons and the Bush administration didn't matter. Nor did the glaring lack of evidence that Rove

    et al ever showed antipathy for the museum. It was simply obvious that Von Brunn was the offspring of the "right-wing extremism [that] is being systematically fed by the conservative media and political establishment," wrote columnist Paul Krugman.

    If only Hasan was a fan of Glenn Beck!

    President Obama was right when he said, in the early hours after the shooting, that people shouldn't "jump to conclusions" (a lesson he might have learned when he jumped to the wrong conclusion about a white cop who arrested Henry Louis Gates, a black Harvard professor). But just as we should not jump to conclusions, we shouldn't jump away from them.

    Despite reports that Hasan had shouted "Allahu Akbar" as he opened fire, MSNBC's Chris Matthews insisted that "we may never know if religion was a factor at Ft. Hood." Thursday night, NBC and CBS refrained from even reporting the man's name. Meanwhile, ABC's Martha Raddatz's reporting on the subject reflected a yearning for denial: "As for the suspect, Nadal Hasan, as one officer's wife told me, 'I wish his name was Smith.' "

    We have a real problem when much of the political and journalistic establishment is eager to jump to the conclusion that peaceful political opponents are in league with violent extremists, but is terrified to consider the possibility that violent extremists really are violent extremists if doing so means calling attention to the fact that they are Muslims.

    I am more sympathetic toward this reluctance to state the truth of the matter than some of my colleagues on the right. There is a powerful case to be made that Islamic extremism is not some fringe phenomena but part of the mainstream of Islamic life around the world. And yet, to work from that assumption might make the assumption all the more self-fulfilling. If we act as if "Islam is the problem," as some say, we will guarantee that Islam will become the problem. But outright denial, like we are seeing today, is surely not the beginning of wisdom either.

    I have no remedy for the challenge we face. But I do take some solace in George Orwell's observation that "to see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle."

  2. #167
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    For example, the London Telegraph reports that, in what was supposed to be a medical lecture, Hassan instead gave an hourlong briefing on the Koran, explaining to colleagues at Walter Reed Army Medical Center that nonbelievers should be beheaded, have boiling oil poured down their throats and set on fire.
    please, please tell me that their religious text doesn't say that. Do they really believe that?!

  3. #168
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    I don't know but as more revelations come to light it just staggers me how they allowed this to happen unchecked.

    I can only come to the unfortunate conclusion as others have that this is simply PC run amok, in the US Army of all places.

    Un-freaking-believable.

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    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    please, please tell me that their religious text doesn't say that. Do they really believe that?!
    I think that it says non believers should be beheaded, yes. Not sure about the rest of what he said.

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    Elite Member Moongirl's Avatar
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    I heard this morning that even though the Defense Department knew he was e-mailing Muslim radicals, they did not inform the Army; also, some of his med school colleagues are now reporting oddities in his behavior, but none of them ever filed an official complaint at the time...

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moongirl View Post
    I heard this morning that even though the Defense Department knew he was e-mailing Muslim radicals, they did not inform the Army; also, some of his med school colleagues are now reporting oddities in his behavior, but none of them ever filed an official complaint at the time...
    I don't get why people just ignored those warning signs. It's one thing to not unfairly single someone out, but this guy was waving a red flag that he was an extremist/terrorist. The DOD dropped the ball on that.

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    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moongirl View Post
    I heard this morning that even though the Defense Department knew he was e-mailing Muslim radicals, they did not inform the Army; also, some of his med school colleagues are now reporting oddities in his behavior, but none of them ever filed an official complaint at the time...
    I can comprehend how colleagues could be hesitant to report that a Muslim co-worker is acting 'strange'. They could probably imagine themselves being accused of ethnic stereotyping or being culturally insensitive and may have made themselves targets for charges of racism or intolerance.

    It's all complete bullshit, of course, but there you go. Diversity is a word that hardly means anything anymore because like so many otherwise good concepts, political correctness taken to an extreme has resulted in people denying truth that is right in front of them and being accused of racism has become a worse offense than talking about chopping peoples' heads off.
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    Elite Member cupcake's Avatar
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    They HATE us. They are NEVER going to like us. We need to get out of the Middle East and let them fight amongst themselves. They hate us for being there . They hate our interferance. Im livid that lives were lost because this Man was protected because he is a Muslim. Extreme Muslim on a mission. They know he was on a mission. They dropped the ball bigtime. No what about all of the other Jihads in this country who want us dead. This group is growing right under our nose!!!
    Last edited by cupcake; November 11th, 2009 at 03:56 PM.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Did the Army Ignore Red Flags Because of Hasan's Religion?


    As officials continue to investigate the alleged Fort Hood killer, it is looking increasingly likely that the Army missed several red flags in Major Nidal Malik Hasan's behavior. Many observers say it wouldn't be surprising if such signals had been missed, given that Hasan was a psychiatrist whom the Army desperately needed to help tend to the mental wounds of two wars. But at the same time, some members of the military are quietly discussing the more troubling possibility that the Army looked the other way precisely because Hasan was Muslim.

    Army officials strongly deny any suggestion that Hasan's religion resulted in his being given special treatment. But one officer who attended the Pentagon's medical school with Hasan disagrees. "He was very vocal about being a Muslim first and holding Shari'a law above the Constitution," this officer recalls. When fellow students asked, "How can you be an officer and hold to the Constitution?," the officer says, Hasan would "get visibly upset sweaty and nervous and had no good answers." This medical doctor would speak only anonymously because his commanders have ordered him not to talk about Hasan, he says.

    This officer says he was so surprised when Hasan gave a talk about "the war on terror being a war on Islam" that he asked the lieutenant colonel running the course what Hasan's presentation had to do with health care. "I raised my hand and asked, 'Why are you letting this go on this has nothing to do with environmental health.' The course director said, 'I'm just going to let him go.' " The topic of Hasan's presentation, the officer says, had been approved in advance by the lieutenant colonel.

    The officer says he and a colleague complained to staff at the Uniformed University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., but got nowhere: "It was a systemic problem the same thing was happening at Walter Reed," the Army medical center several miles away, where Hasan was working as a psychiatrist. (The Washington Post reported Tuesday that Hasan gave a similar presentation at Walter Reed in which he said Muslims should be released as conscientious objectors rather than forced into combat against fellow Muslims.) But "political correctness" inside the military, the officer asserts, insulated Hasan. "People are afraid to come forward and challenge somebody's ideology," he says, "because they're afraid of getting an equal-opportunity complaint that can end careers."

    A retired four-star officer says that, on the basis of the evidence gleaned so far, it was Hasan's career that should have been cut short. "They could have given him a dishonorable discharge and said what he's doing works against good order and discipline," says the general, who also requested anonymity. But rather than it being a matter of giving preferential treatment to Hasan because of his religion, "my guess is he fell through the cracks," the general says.

    Whether he fell through the cracks or was cut slack because of concerns about appearing to impinge on his religious freedom will be a focus of the investigations under way. "The Army was just under such pressure that they planned to send him to Afghanistan," says Lawrence Korb, Pentagon personnel chief during the Reagan Administration. But Korb says he's perplexed by reports that Hasan received poor evaluations and still got promoted. "That tells me the Army didn't do its job," he says though he attributes that to the unrelenting demand to keep mental-health professionals on duty rather than to Hasan's religion.

    But Ralph Peters, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who now writes military books and a newspaper column, contends that Hasan's religion protected him from punitive action by the Army, a view shared privately by many in uniform. While stressing "there shouldn't be witch hunts" against Muslims in uniform, Peters insists "this guy got a pass because he was a Muslim, despite the Army's claim that everybody's green and we're all the same."

    Congress is already beginning to look into why an Army psychiatrist who reportedly had to be counseled against sharing his antiwar views with soldiers back from combat could have possibly been promoted in May. Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, said on Monday that he will hold a hearing next week to see "whether the government missed warning signs that should have led to [Hasan's] expulsion" before he killed 13 people on the Texas post last Thursday. Hasan's former classmate, for one, says he wasn't surprised to see Hasan's face flash across his television screen. "After the shock," he says, "the first thing that went through my mind was, Hey, I remember everything this guy said."



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  10. #175
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    Did they miss the warning signs? Give me a break, how much clearer can it get!

    As others have touched upon, if some person went on stage and gave a presentation on neo nazi groups, how great they are, and of killing minorities and using racial slurs, even before the presentation was over the person would be thrashed off the stage and charged with violation of whatever UCMJ's there are.

    Yet, this guy gets a 'pass' repeatedly because people are afraid of being labeled insensitive, racist, etc.

    F**king disgraceful and sickening as f**k.

  11. #176
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    I say kill that motherfucker now. Come on, Texas - fuckers like this are the reason I believe in the death penalty!
    Kill him.
    Kill her.
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    Elite Member cupcake's Avatar
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    He will never get the death penalty. He will end iup in a nut house I bet. Alot of $$$ are going to be spent on trial and fees. Wish he would have just died
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    Massive Media Fail: Female Cop Did Not Bring Down Ft. Hood Killer

    With the publication of an interview with Sgt. Mark Todd, the actual cop who gunned down the killer at Fort Hood -- following its account of an unnamed eyewitness last night -- The New York Times finally underlined what some of us noticed from nearly the start: the media fell hook, line and sinker once again for a military account of what happened during the tragedy.

    First, it was the "death" of Major Hasan. Then, for days, the story of how a white female cop brought down the shooter, even as she was receiving serious wounds. Yet I noticed just hours after the attack that scattered eyewitnesses, via the Web and Twitter, were saying that the killer re-loaded after Kimberly Munley went down.

    How could he have done that if she had just plugged him four times, supposedly ending the rampage? Some of those witnesses said they yelled at the second cop to shoot Hasan--which he did, and then went up and kicked his gun away. Yet for almost a week the media rarely questioned the military's "official" story of Munley as savior.

    The New York Times was one of many who put Munley on the front page and declared that she was the person who nailed Hasan. Its headline: "She ran to gunfire, and ended it." It said flatly that she "brought down the gunman." To its credit: The Times much later did help bring out the truth.

    Most news outlets for days labeled Munley "the" (singular) Fort Hood hero. It wasn't until two days ago that Sgt.Todd got feature billing, although in a secondary role. Now, in the past day, he is finally getting his due as the original account begins to fall away.

    What else will turn out false about Fort Hood claims from military, e.g. the "Allahu Akbar" shouts?

    Yes, Munley is a hero for facing the bullets. And, no, this isn't another Jessica Lynch case, but it does have some disturbing similarities.

    Plus: Just coincidence that a white woman got the credit over a black male? We'll soon find out.


    Greg Mitchell: Massive Media Fail: Female Cop Did Not Bring Down Fort Hood Killer

    This is exactly why I don't believe everything I read or hear from the MSM. It's not just Faux News that reports bullshit, exaggerations, and outright lies. Our media is about as reliable as TASS.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; November 12th, 2009 at 02:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cupcake View Post
    They HATE us. They are NEVER going to like us. We need to get out of the Middle East and let them fight amongst themselves. They hate us for being there . They hate our interferance. Im livid that lives were lost because this Man was protected because he is a Muslim. Extreme Muslim on a mission. They know he was on a mission. They dropped the ball bigtime. No what about all of the other Jihads in this country who want us dead. This group is growing right under our nose!!!
    Couldn't agree more. We need to get the hell out of the ME and let them sort it all out by themselves.

    I think this guy was protected because he spoke Arabic. We are hurting for native Arabic speakers in our armed forces as well as in the CIA.

    Granted, a gay Arabic speaker will be fired immeadiately. But they will keep this idiot, despite all the warning signs, because he's straight. Maybe we need to re-assess our policies?

    Also, religions tend to create triggers - We will protect our faith to the death! John Travolta said in an A&E interview that he would fight in defense of $cientology any way he could. The Book of Mormon is extremely heavy with righteous violence, racism, and wars for god. A big part of the LDS faith is blood atonement for the sinners (whoever that is for the moment.)

    Islam seems to have the best triggers in the world today. It's really scary. I can't get my head around it - so foreign to me. I'm not sure I want to understand how women can be killed for immodesty and unbelievers tortured.

    We in the USA don't really have the same threat level from Islam as Europe does. Britain scares me, lots of tensions there from many sides. I don't go there much anymore.
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  15. #180
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    I think this guy was protected because he spoke Arabic. We are hurting for native Arabic speakers in our armed forces as well as in the CIA.
    No, they didn't. There are several accounts that say his Arabic was shit.
    One:
    Fort Hood suspect Nidal Malik Hasan seemed 'cool, calm, religious' - CNN.com

    Like I said earlier, it goes back to the Army paying for his medical education. They gave this guy 12 yrs of education and they were going to get every year of payback out of him that he owed. Especially as an MD and a mental health professional- they don't let those professions seperate from the service easily. They probably would have given this guy anything he wanted if he signed up to do 20 yrs.

    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    As others have touched upon, if some person went on stage and gave a presentation on neo nazi groups, how great they are, and of killing minorities and using racial slurs, even before the presentation was over the person would be thrashed off the stage and charged with violation of whatever UCMJ's there are.
    The ONLY rationale I can come up with for allowing him to make those presentations is this: it could conceivably be educational for non-Muslim military psychiatrists to learn the perspective of the people we are at war with. It could conceivably help them to be a better counselor and doctor to their soldier patients, just in terms of helping them understand why XYZ happened.

    Did you guys see this? The Washington Post published his presentation- I haven't looked at it yet:

    Hasan on Islam - washingtonpost.com

    ETA- I like how this guy is an MD and he can't even put together a PowerPoint without spelling / grammar errors. See: 'My' instead of 'by'; 'through' instead of 'threw'; "if" instead of "is"

    ETA 2: Jeezus! Almost 40 slides of Koran quotes! Overkill. I can see how this presentation started out to be good in theory but in reality it became something else. Although honestly, it isn't as bad/extreme as I was thinking.

    And WTF- did Islam really 'abrogate' their earlier peaceful texts?!
    Last edited by Cali; November 12th, 2009 at 05:04 PM.

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