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Thread: Shooting at Ft. Hood Army Base kills 7, 12 wounded...

  1. #151
    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    As much as we all dislike painting any one group with a broad brush because of the negative behaviors of some of their members, I'm afraid that when enough of the same shit starts happening repeatedly it is impossible for folks not to make associations. It's an evolutionary defense mechanism as much as anything else. I'm sure it's hard to be a decent Catholic priest these days with all the stories about sexual abuse int eh Church. Do I believe all Catholics are like that? No, but I do believe there is guilt by association when we are aware that the Catholic church knew damn well what was happening and actually conspired to conceal it to the detriment of innocent church members. That is why it is so important for all groups to self-poilice as much as possible. The public needs to hear group members loudly denounce the other members who engage in this kind of behavior. Whites need to be active against racism, men need to be more outspoken with other men in condemning sexist speech and behavior that supports rape culture, Christinas/anti abortion advocates need to outcase anyone who supports bombing clinics and shooting doctors. Muslims need to get loud and visible in condemning other Muslims who sympathize with terrorist speech and behavior.
    All your posts in here have said exactly what I think!

  2. #152
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    As much as we all dislike painting any one group with a broad brush because of the negative behaviors of some of their members, I'm afraid that when enough of the same shit starts happening repeatedly it is impossible for folks not to make associations. It's an evolutionary defense mechanism as much as anything else. I'm sure it's hard to be a decent Catholic priest these days with all the stories about sexual abuse int eh Church. Do I believe all Catholics are like that? No, but I do believe there is guilt by association when we are aware that the Catholic church knew damn well what was happening and actually conspired to conceal it to the detriment of innocent church members. That is why it is so important for all groups to self-poilice as much as possible. The public needs to hear group members loudly denounce the other members who engage in this kind of behavior. Whites need to be active against racism, men need to be more outspoken with other men in condemning sexist speech and behavior that supports rape culture, Christinas/anti abortion advocates need to outcase anyone who supports bombing clinics and shooting doctors. Muslims need to get loud and visible in condemning other Muslims who sympathize with terrorist speech and behavior.
    Excellent post.


  3. #153
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    A terrorist is a terrorist, regardless of their race, religion or country of origin. Timothy McVeigh, terrorist. The UnaBomber, terrorist. The D.C. snipers, terrorists. This nutjob at Fort Hood, terrorist.

    And you didn't answer my question. Do you consider those examples I gave acts of terrorism? Or is it only terrorism when it's an Arab/ Muslim?

    A terrorist is not just a terrorist. A terrorist who happens to have a Christian background does not mean that the person committed a terrorist act in the name of their religion. It would be pointless to associate Ted Kaczynski with "Christian terrorism" because that wasn't his motivation. The red brigades, Weathermen, and the Baader Meinhoff gangs came from mostly Christian backgrounds, but they weren't committing acts of terrorism in the name of Christianity. However, it is getting increasingly clear that Nidal Hasan had that as a partial motivation. Same with the guy who shot up the recruiting office. Same with the guy who shot up the El Al ticket counter at LAX.

  4. #154
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    Looks like this guy's a real piece of work. Seems like he was the one doing the antagonizing of others.

  5. #155
    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I disagree. Examples:The I.R.A.- white, christian- terrorists. The E.T.A. - also white, christian- terrorists. Revolutionary Organization 17 November- white, christian- terrorists. The list is long.

    If you commit acts of terrorism, you're a terrorist. Cut and dried. It doesn't apply to muslim extremists exclusively.
    The 17 of November members that were caught are marxist extreme left wing terrorists and their motivations had nothing to do with religion. And even though two of the members that were caught were sons of a priest, they had renounced organised religion and I'm pretty sure most of the members would say they are atheists.

    But yes, terrorists come in all races and religions.

  6. #156
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanna View Post
    The 17 of November members that were caught are marxist extreme left wing terrorists and their motivations had nothing to do with religion. And even though two of the members that were caught were sons of a priest, they had renounced organised religion and I'm pretty sure most of the members would say they are atheists.

    But yes, terrorists come in all races and religions.
    Yes, I understand. ETA isn't motivated by religion either. These were just the first three groups of non-muslim terrorists that came into my head.

    My point was that you can be a white person from a christian background and still be called as terrorist, and that we don't just apply the term to muslims. The OP was saying we only apply it muslims, and exclude calling others terrorists:

    Terrorism isn't unique to Islam, but it is uniquely applied to describe Muslims.
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  7. #157
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    A terrorist is not just a terrorist. A terrorist who happens to have a Christian background does not mean that the person committed a terrorist act in the name of their religion. It would be pointless to associate Ted Kaczynski with "Christian terrorism" because that wasn't his motivation. The red brigades, Weathermen, and the Baader Meinhoff gangs came from mostly Christian backgrounds, but they weren't committing acts of terrorism in the name of Christianity. However, it is getting increasingly clear that Nidal Hasan had that as a partial motivation. Same with the guy who shot up the recruiting office. Same with the guy who shot up the El Al ticket counter at LAX.
    A terrorist IS a terrorist. The problem here is that you seem to be under the impression that 'real' terrorists only commit terrorist acts based on religious reasons. They don't. Some do it for religious reasons, some for political and some just for cash.

    Now abortion doctor murderers and people who bomb abortion clinics believe they are doing God's work, so they're committing terrorism in the name of Christianity. And we've had abortion murders/bombings dating back to the 90's, and now it's bubbling up again. So, the same rationale that you're applying to the Muslims has to be applied to the Christians.

    And since you still refuse to answer my question, I'll just take that as you don't believe any of those examples I gave are acts of terrorism & that you only consider it terrorism when it's an Arab/Muslim involved.
    Last edited by kingcap72; November 10th, 2009 at 12:40 PM.

  8. #158
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Any time you terrorize anyone, for any reason, you are a terrorist. The term has been "popularized" recently with the 911 events obviously, but if you're some guy who invades my house without my permission and does anything to me or any members of my family against our will where we are scared shitless and feel threatened - you are a terrorist. I don't care if you're white, black, Muslim, green, purple, male, female, young, old, handicapped, Christian, Jewish, bald, red-headed - you're terrorizing me and you're now a terrorist. Should/does not matter if it's on a national, global, community or neighborhood scale - you are what you are.

  9. #159
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I disagree. Examples:The I.R.A.- white, christian- terrorists. The E.T.A. - also white, christian- terrorists. Revolutionary Organization 17 November- white, christian- terrorists. The list is long.

    If you commit acts of terrorism, you're a terrorist. Cut and dried. It doesn't apply to muslim extremists exclusively.
    I would clarify that it's uniquely applied when a Muslim pulls some shit, it's automatically labeled as some form of Muslim terrorism, where at least others have to "earn" the title, with evidence of conspiracies or uncovered manifestos. I agree that a terrorist is a terrorist, which is why we need to stop believing that "most of the terrorists are Muslim." As far as I'm concerned, domestic violence is a form of terrorism, keeping countless citizens in fear and devoid of freedom, but there's more money to be made in bombing other countries, which I think is another form of terrorism. The revered Big Stick policy is basically, do what I'll say or I'll fuck you up, do something I don't like and I'll fuck you up.

    Not that I'm accusing anyone here, but too many people call other people terrorists just so they can feel better about the violence they commit themselves.

  10. #160
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^ I understand that point. And I know that many people do believe that most terrorists are muslims.

    I wonder if it has anything to with the era you grow up in, or where you live. I'm old enough to recall many ethnicities being part of various terror groups, so my mind doesn't automatically think 'muslim' when I hear terrorist. For Americans, islamic terrorists are the first groups that have affected their countrymen, going back to the 80's, so it may be that it's just what their reference point is.
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  11. #161
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookie View Post
    Any time you terrorize anyone, for any reason, you are a terrorist. The term has been "popularized" recently with the 911 events obviously, but if you're some guy who invades my house without my permission and does anything to me or any members of my family against our will where we are scared shitless and feel threatened - you are a terrorist. I don't care if you're white, black, Muslim, green, purple, male, female, young, old, handicapped, Christian, Jewish, bald, red-headed - you're terrorizing me and you're now a terrorist. Should/does not matter if it's on a national, global, community or neighborhood scale - you are what you are.
    Exactly.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    As much as we all dislike painting any one group with a broad brush because of the negative behaviors of some of their members, I'm afraid that when enough of the same shit starts happening repeatedly it is impossible for folks not to make associations. It's an evolutionary defense mechanism as much as anything else. I'm sure it's hard to be a decent Catholic priest these days with all the stories about sexual abuse int eh Church. Do I believe all Catholics are like that? No, but I do believe there is guilt by association when we are aware that the Catholic church knew damn well what was happening and actually conspired to conceal it to the detriment of innocent church members. That is why it is so important for all groups to self-poilice as much as possible. The public needs to hear group members loudly denounce the other members who engage in this kind of behavior. Whites need to be active against racism, men need to be more outspoken with other men in condemning sexist speech and behavior that supports rape culture, Christinas/anti abortion advocates need to outcase anyone who supports bombing clinics and shooting doctors. Muslims need to get loud and visible in condemning other Muslims who sympathize with terrorist speech and behavior.
    Excellent points and examples.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookie View Post
    Any time you terrorize anyone, for any reason, you are a terrorist. The term has been "popularized" recently with the 911 events obviously, but if you're some guy who invades my house without my permission and does anything to me or any members of my family against our will where we are scared shitless and feel threatened - you are a terrorist. I don't care if you're white, black, Muslim, green, purple, male, female, young, old, handicapped, Christian, Jewish, bald, red-headed - you're terrorizing me and you're now a terrorist. Should/does not matter if it's on a national, global, community or neighborhood scale - you are what you are.
    I understand what you're saying, but the word terrorism does have a range of accepted definitions, and these generally refer to committing a violent/criminal act for a political purpose, sometimes under cover of religion. So you are redefining terrorism here to something much broader than most people currently recognize.
    Posted from my fucking iPhone

  14. #164
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Yep. Terrorism has the root word terror - and in my mind, if I'm terrified or feel terrorized, you're a terrorist. You might be a burglar, a rapist, someone trying to pick me up by getting me drunk at the bar, or the guy who crashed a plane into the WTC. I'm terrified, you caused it - you're a terrorist. Terrorist isn't defined by religion or ethnicity or race or gender or largeness of the event. Did I just terrify you? Well, now I'm a terrorist.

  15. #165
    Silver Member micashell's Avatar
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    It wasn't too long ago that there used to be separate words for everything, so you knew pretty much what was being talked about.

    Hijacker, gunman, militia group, bomber

    We now seem to use the word terrorist for everything and it's becoming a bit "run of the mill".

    All of the above listed words are a threat to someone's freedom or life, but now everything is about terrorism because that's a harsher word. The other ones would still strike fear into me if I was involved in a situation with one of them.

    Edited to add - The United Nations Security Council describes terrorism as an act intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act
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