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Thread: Shooting at Ft. Hood Army Base kills 7, 12 wounded...

  1. #136
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Pretty much. And that's the American way. Christian equals 'patriot' and Muslim equals 'terrorists.'

  2. #137
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Well, if the media does the 'Muslim enemy within' story then they have to do the 'Christian enemy within' story, too. Because more right-wing Christian nutjobs have been going off the deep-end this year in the U.S. than the Muslim nutjobs. But the Christians aren't considered terrorists or enemies of the state like the Muslims are.
    Have any Christians been running around this year, shooting up people while screaming "Jesus Saves!"???

  3. #138
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    I think the media shows how it censors itself when you compare this shooting to the holocaust museum shooting. They had no issue with labelling that shooter a white supremacist, a racist, an anti-semite (which was all true)...but much of the media walks on eggshells with this case. Going for the 'crazy' angle instead of the 'belief' angle. Don't want to upset anyone.

    There is also disparity in how the murder of Tiller was given intense media coverage, but the murder of the pro lifer outside the high school was given next to none ....and in how little coverage was given to the Army recruiter muder and shooting in June, where the suspect was also a muslim extremist.
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  4. #139
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Have any Christians been running around this year, shooting up people while screaming "Jesus Saves!"???
    So, the Christian has to be screaming 'Jesus Saves' to be considered a terrorist? Uh, okay.

    From all accounts, the guy that killed Dr. Tiller and threatened more violence didn't scream 'Jesus Saves,' but he called himself a Christian. The anti-abortion groups who cheered Tiller's murderer and advocate more violence call themselves Christians.

    The militia groups who are currently amping up recruitment & advocate a violent overthrow of the government call themselves Chrisitans. And there were no reports of the nutjob who shot up the Holocaust Museum screaming 'Jesus Saves,' but since he had a painting of Jesus and Hitler in his home we can assume he was a Christian.

  5. #140
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I think the media shows how it censors itself when you compare this shooting to the holocaust museum shooting. They had no issue with labelling that shooter a white supremacist, a racist, an anti-semite (which was all true)...but much of the media walks on eggshells with this case. Going for the 'crazy' angle instead of the 'belief' angle. Don't want to upset anyone.

    There is also disparity in how the murder of Tiller was given intense media coverage, but the murder of the pro lifer outside the high school was given next to none ....and in how little coverage was given to the Army recruiter muder and shooting in June, where the suspect was also a muslim extremist.

    Bingo!!! And you know what else? I really don't think it all comes down to 'respecting diversity' with Muslim radicals...I think ironically they are afraid if they call them out they will become targets of extremist violence, just like those people who ran that picture of Mohammed over in Denmark or wherever. If they admit they fear violent repercussions they are admitting they think this group is inclined toward violent behavior which is very un-pc. So they have to pretend it's all in the interest of fairness/diversity/whatever.

    I'm sorry, but it is silly to pretend that radical Christian extremists are just as violent across the world as Muslim extremists are. Like I said, they are where the Christian extremists were centuries ago. Show me where in Christian countries women are being stoned to death for being raped or where village councils are ordering women to be gang raped as punishment for a male relative talking to someone outside their social class. These people make Amish country look like a fucking Sandals resort by comparison.
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  6. #141
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    So, the Christian has to be screaming 'Jesus Saves' to be considered a terrorist? Uh, okay.
    Yeah, it would help. Almost all mass murderers, self affiliate with SOME religion. So, tying a murderer back to his or her religion is pointless unless they are specifically citing it as their motivation to commit murder or a terrorist act. Which is what Hasan has done in this case.

  7. #142
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    I'm thinking, and hoping that the media is holding off on reporting this not out of any 'PC' concerns but out of fear of setting off something larger.

    I mean, if it turns out the guy was a Muslim extremist who possibly worked with Al Qaida AND had some sinister dealings with the 9/11 attackers, then all hell is going to break loose. That will 100% provoke a very strong, possibly violent, reaction.

    Everyone remembers how things were right after 9/11 and it wasn't pretty. Muslim hatred and hate crimes were happening everywhere. And the Army Chief of Staff (I think that's his title) has urged restraint in reporting those connections, so as to preserve the safety of our Muslim soldiers.

    Any media outlet would be crucified if they ran with that storyline, caused a similar outbreak of violence, and it turned out to be false. I think, and hope, that they are waiting to report on it until the facts are solid.

    ETA-
    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    I think ironically they are afraid if they call them out they will become targets of extremist violence, just like those people who ran that picture of Mohammed over in Denmark or wherever. If they admit they fear violent repercussions they are admitting they think this group is inclined toward violent behavior which is very un-pc. So they have to pretend it's all in the interest of fairness/diversity/whatever.
    That's a very real possibility as well. Another reason they could be holding back on reporting this angle- the fear of violent repercussions.

  8. #143
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Yeah, it would help. Almost all mass murderers, self affiliate with SOME religion. So, tying a murderer back to his or her religion is pointless unless they are specifically citing it as their motivation to commit murder or a terrorist act. Which is what Hasan has done in this case.
    Nice try, but that doesn't fly. All of those examples I gave in my previous post had some religious overtones to them. In the case of the abortion murder/advocates of violence they believe they are doing God's work by killing abortion doctors. And in the case of the white supremacists/militia groups they definitely love to cite God as a justification for their actions/beliefs.

    Now, do you consider all of those examples I mentioned in my last post acts of terrorism?

  9. #144
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    As much as we all dislike painting any one group with a broad brush because of the negative behaviors of some of their members, I'm afraid that when enough of the same shit starts happening repeatedly it is impossible for folks not to make associations. It's an evolutionary defense mechanism as much as anything else. I'm sure it's hard to be a decent Catholic priest these days with all the stories about sexual abuse int eh Church. Do I believe all Catholics are like that? No, but I do believe there is guilt by association when we are aware that the Catholic church knew damn well what was happening and actually conspired to conceal it to the detriment of innocent church members. That is why it is so important for all groups to self-poilice as much as possible. The public needs to hear group members loudly denounce the other members who engage in this kind of behavior. Whites need to be active against racism, men need to be more outspoken with other men in condemning sexist speech and behavior that supports rape culture, Christinas/anti abortion advocates need to outcase anyone who supports bombing clinics and shooting doctors. Muslims need to get loud and visible in condemning other Muslims who sympathize with terrorist speech and behavior.
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  10. #145
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    What happened with the "other" shooters reported earlier? They seemed to have vanished from the discussion, but the media was so sloppy in reporting this.

    Terrorism isn't unique to Islam, but it is uniquely applied to describe Muslims. When a group of Muslims decide to do some "payback" for a suspected wrong, it's called terrorism. When Christians or Westerners do it, it's retribution, justice, or the ridiculous "pre-emptive" war. The American Revolutionary "freedom fighters" were terrorists in the eyes of the British. I'm not sympathizing. Murderers are murderers.

  11. #146
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkur View Post
    What happened with the "other" shooters reported earlier? They seemed to have vanished from the discussion, but the media was so sloppy in reporting this.

    Terrorism isn't unique to Islam, but it is uniquely applied to describe Muslims. When a group of Muslims decide to do some "payback" for a suspected wrong, it's called terrorism. When Christians or Westerners do it, it's retribution, justice, or the ridiculous "pre-emptive" war. The American Revolutionary "freedom fighters" were terrorists in the eyes of the British. I'm not sympathizing. Murderers are murderers.
    It's all pretty simple to me: anyone I don't know who tries to kill me and a bunch of other people they don't know is a fucking terrorist.
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  12. #147
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Nice try, but that doesn't fly. All of those examples I gave in my previous post had some religious overtones to them. In the case of the abortion murder/advocates of violence they believe they are doing God's work by killing abortion doctors. And in the case of the white supremacists/militia groups they definitely love to cite God as a justification for their actions/beliefs.

    Now, do you consider all of those examples I mentioned in my last post acts of terrorism?
    It totally flies. There are examples of people like Tim McVeigh who were part of the Christian Identity Movement and subscribe to an apocalyptic view of Christianity vs. "unseen forces wishing to destroy it". But nothing on the order of Islamists in terms of plots and bringing them to fruition. What was the number of Islamist plots interrupted in the U.S. this year? Something like 10? How many Christian plots?

  13. #148
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkur View Post
    Terrorism isn't unique to Islam, but it is uniquely applied to describe Muslims. When a group of Muslims decide to do some "payback" for a suspected wrong, it's called terrorism. When Christians or Westerners do it, it's retribution, justice, or the ridiculous "pre-emptive" war.
    I disagree. Examples:The I.R.A.- white, christian- terrorists. The E.T.A. - also white, christian- terrorists. Revolutionary Organization 17 November- white, christian- terrorists. The list is long.

    If you commit acts of terrorism, you're a terrorist. Cut and dried. It doesn't apply to muslim extremists exclusively.
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  14. #149
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    It totally flies. There are examples of people like Tim McVeigh who were part of the Christian Identity Movement and subscribe to an apocalyptic view of Christianity vs. "unseen forces wishing to destroy it". But nothing on the order of Islamists in terms of plots and bringing them to fruition. What was the number of Islamist plots interrupted in the U.S. this year? Something like 10? How many Christian plots?
    A terrorist is a terrorist, regardless of their race, religion or country of origin. Timothy McVeigh, terrorist. The UnaBomber, terrorist. The D.C. snipers, terrorists. This nutjob at Fort Hood, terrorist.

    And you didn't answer my question. Do you consider those examples I gave acts of terrorism? Or is it only terrorism when it's an Arab/ Muslim?

  15. #150
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    Honestly, even if this shooter wasn't muslim, I'd believe the media would still go for the 'secondary PTSD' angle.

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