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Thread: The shooting of 17 yr old Trayvon Martin

  1. #136
    Elite Member Seapharris7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    Thanks Hustle.

    So it's not even like he was in an area that didn't make sense, except for the racist Zimmerman who didn't want a black kid in his neighborhood.

    Well, the dad who was visiting his fiancee (I'd imagine it wasnt his first time in the area, but I may be wrong) is black, and I'm pretty sure the fiancee is too. Maybe Zimmerman is racist, I'm not judging that, but I'd imagine he'd at least be aware that a black family lived in his neighborhood?
    But stories are coming out about how the dad brought him up there because he was in trouble for being suspended from school & he wanted him to be somewhere he didnt have friends to just chill with - he was still being punished. So maybe Zimmerman had never seen Trayvon before?

    I'm leaning more & more towards Zimmerman being a control freak wannabe cop who did follow TM & TM confronted him - cant say I wouldnt do the same. Fight ensued & Zimmerman shot him. I'm just shocked that the police did not at least take a blood sample from Zimmerman... they did to the dead kid, but not the guy who KILLED him?!?
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  2. #137
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Default NBC to Internally Investigate Misleading Segment on Zimmerman 911 Call

    NBC disclosed today that it will be launching an internal investigation into a segment about the Trayvon Martin case that appeared on the Today show, in which a call between George Zimmerman and a 911 dispatcher prior to Martin's death was edited in such a way that it portrays Zimmerman as a racial profiler. The editorial decision under review involves the removal of the dispatcher's inquiry about the race of the person Zimmerman was following — Martin. Absent that question, Zimmerman's comments get strung together as if he said, in sequence, "This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black."

    The Washington Post provides the full transcript of that part of the call:
    Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

    Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

    Zimmerman: He looks black.
    Of course Zimmerman goes on to follow Martin against the advice of the dispatcher, but in this version of the call, it doesn't appear that he's awkwardly offering the information or in effect, profiling. Zimmerman still might have been, but the truncated call left much less doubt.

    The Post's Erik Wemple writes that in a case where few facts are undisputed, it was particularly egregious to misrepresent one of them, the phone call. "To portray that exchange in a way that wrongs Zimmerman is high editorial malpractice well worthy of the investigation that NBC is now mounting."

    Meanwhile New York Times media czar David Carr wrote a column today titled "A Shooting, And Instant Polarization," in which he similarly impugned some media coverage of this controversial case.
    That the public is rendering its verdict immediately and firmly may be routine, but choosing sides takes on a deeper, more dangerous meaning when race is at the heart of the story. Race as an explosive issue is nothing new, but it’s been staggering to see it simmer and boil over in our hyperdivided media environment where nonstop coverage on the Web and cable television creates a rush to judgment every day.
    Partisan politics and far-flung conflicts fit nicely into that world — who’s ahead, who’s behind, should we stay or go? — but racial conflict? Not so much.

    That hasn’t stopped many in the media from displaying the same reflexive vigilantism that some are attributing to George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon. All over the Internet and on cable TV, posses are forming, positions are hardening and misinformation is flourishing. Instead of debating how we as a culture are going to proceed, an increasingly partisan system of news and social media has factionalized and curdled.
    Carr and Wemple are not the only two to call out partisan media and media at large for mishandling coverage of the Martin case, or misrepresenting specific aspects of it. Nor are NBC or Business Insider (chastised by Carr for mishandling dubious photos) the only two to have erred in their coverage.

    We'll end with an exchange from Something's Gotta Give, starring Jack Nicholson (Harry) and Diane Keaton (Erica):

    Harry: I have never lied to you. I have always told you some version of the truth.
    Erica Barry: The truth doesn't have versions, okay?


    NBC to Internally Investigate Misleading Segment on Zimmerman 911 Call -- Daily Intel
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  3. #138
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Default A Shooting, and Instant Polarization

    What seemed like a single shooting incident in a midsize Florida city — the killing in February of Trayvon Martin — now threatens to divide a country. How did that happen?

    How did a discrete local event take on the scale of a presidential election, or assassination, with every shred of information subjected to Zapruder-like deconstruction? The photo, the hoodie, the tweets, the Skittles — all have taken on outsize importance in a supercharged national debate, while perspective and restraint get left by the wayside. An audience weaned on decades of police procedurals on television has become a crowd-sourced judge and jury.

    Somehow, Mr. Martin’s death has become a meme, like Obamacare, and Etch A Sketch, and the now-familiar partisan free-for-all in the media has ensued.

    That the public is rendering its verdict immediately and firmly may be routine, but choosing sides takes on a deeper, more dangerous meaning when race is at the heart of the story. Race as an explosive issue is nothing new, but it’s been staggering to see it simmer and boil over in our hyperdivided media environment where nonstop coverage on the Web and cable television creates a rush to judgment every day.

    Partisan politics and far-flung conflicts fit nicely into that world — who’s ahead, who’s behind, should we stay or go? — but racial conflict? Not so much.

    That hasn’t stopped many in the media from displaying the same reflexive vigilantism that some are attributing to George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon. All over the Internet and on cable TV, posses are forming, positions are hardening and misinformation is flourishing. Instead of debating how we as a culture are going to proceed, an increasingly partisan system of news and social media has factionalized and curdled.

    “It has been depressing to watch something as important as this get run through the American polarization machine,” said Chris Hayes, the host of “Up With Chris Hayes,” a weekend political talk show on MSNBC. “The first week after it became national news, Act 1, seemed to be built on a shared agreement that what happened was outrageous and upsetting no matter what the facts ended up showing. But then came the backlash and now you’ve got people picking sides.”

    Yes, there have been significant efforts at playing it up the middle: People magazine put it on the cover and called it “An American Tragedy,” as if to remind everyone that we all lose something when a child dies. And ABC did not play “gotcha” with the police security video it had acquired of Mr. Zimmerman.

    But if we have learned anything in the last few years, it is that traditional media are now only in charge of part of the story. There is a paucity of facts and an excess of processing power because everyone with a keyboard is theoretically a creator and distributor of content. Most of those efforts begin from behind a firmly established battle line, then row backward to find the facts that they need. Was that a dark spot on the back of George Zimmerman’s head in the grainy police video, or evidence of a beat-down? We retweet and “like” what we agree with and dismiss the rest.

    As if the overheated cable news debate weren’t enough, social media are fueling the story with misinformation, along with incendiary calls to action. There is a Twitter account called “@killzimmerman” that suggested George Zimmerman needed to be “shot dead in the street.” On Twitter, the movie director Spike Lee passed on what he thought was Mr. Zimmerman’s address, but it was wrong and an elderly couple was forced to flee from their home. And what if Mr. Lee had gotten it right? (Mr. Lee has since apologized and reached a settlement with the couple.)

    Early last week, thanks to Fox News and Geraldo Rivera, coverage pivoted around the preponderance of hoodies rather than the ubiquity of handguns. By the end of last week, the Drudge Report was in lurid, link-driven dudgeon, suggesting that the real victim was George Zimmerman. On Thursday afternoon, there were more than 10 links at the top of the site to articles casting doubt on just how much of a victim Trayvon was, including an interview with Mr. Zimmerman’s father accusing President Obama of spreading hate. It’s ugly out there and getting uglier.

    The victim is being subjected to the full media pat-down. The Daily Caller, a conservative Web site, published 152 pages of what it plausibly represented as Trayvon’s Twitter feed. His handle on Twitter was built on a racial epithet, and his penchant for objectifying his female peers in profane ways was on lurid display. The facile implication was that the young man was obviously well-acquainted with thug life.

    White supremacist sites, some of which have been followed in the mainstream press, have been busy hacking every aspect of Trayvon’s digital life, including his e-mail, and using the material to imply he was a pothead and perhaps a dealer. Most of those accounts didn’t mention all of the correspondence about SAT tests and scholarship applications. You find what you look for, I guess.

    His picture, of a handsome, smiling young man, set off a tug-of-war on the Web. After President Obama said, “If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon” — elevating the controversy to the highest national platform — conservative Web sites scoured the Web for other images of Trayvon. First they came up with a shirtless, baggy-pants rough-neck flipping off the camera with both hands that turned out to be someone else. Then they discovered another where the middle finger was in play that might have been Trayvon’s.

    Business Insider, which would seem to have no ideological skin in the game save clickability, blithely published one of the photos that later turned out to be misidentified that they had cadged from a neo-Nazi Web site. Nice work, guys.

    What happened to the village common, a place where we all meet with different opinions but the same set of facts? It seems to have gone missing.

    “It’s good we are having the discussion; it’s just too bad what it has turned into,” said Ta-nehisi Coates, a writer at The Atlantic who has covered the shooting for weeks.

    Mr. Coates has blogged very forcefully about the lack of a proper, thorough investigation, but as each new piece of evidence has come out — most of it murky and none of it definitive — he has also reminded readers that no one knows precisely what we are looking at.

    “On a base level, people feel you should not be able to shoot a child and not be arrested,” he said. “How could that be? That makes people crazy.” But he added, “This is why we have trials — this could still go another way, so I’ve tried to be careful in what I have been saying.”

    There’s not a lot of that going around. When the criminal justice system appears to fall short, the court of public opinion takes over and suddenly both victim and ostensible perpetrator go on trial. But what is also being adjudicated is our ability to debate highly charged issues in a very divided media landscape. Let’s be careful out there.



    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/bu...mentsContainer
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  4. #139
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    This isn't so much about the case as it is the media's reporting of it, but ABC is now backtracking on the video they put out of Zimmerman. I wonder if they edited the original, and are trying to preempt the NBC type of admission:



    ABC News: Enhanced Video Shows Injury To Zimmerman's Head


    Last week, a video was released showing George Zimmerman at the Sanford Police Department the night he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. It originally appeared as though the neighborhood watch volunteer showed no signs of the violent confrontation he told police took place between himself and the teen that night, but ABC news has enhanced the video showing signs of injury on Zimmerman's head.

    ABC's Matt Gutman said the network re-digitized the video to reveal what appears to be "a pair of gashes or welts" on the back of Zimmerman's head. This discovery is more consistent with Zimmerman's account of what happened the night of Feb. 26.

    According to a police report first described by the Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman told investigators that Martin jumped him from behind, punched him in the nose and pounded his head into the sidewalk.

    The enhanced video complicates an already complex narrative of what really took place that evening amid shifting public perception of both Zimmerman and Martin.

    During an interview on "The Today Show," Craig Sonner, Zimmerman's lawyer, said the video was "too grainy" to show the injuries his client claimed he sustained in his fight with Martin. However, the funeral director who handled the body of the slain teen told Nancy Grace there were no cuts, bruises or signs of a fight on Martin's body.

    "I didn't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale told the television talk show host.

    Police took Zimmerman into custody after they arrived. He was questioned and released later that night. He remains free as the Seminole County State Attorney's Office reviews the police investigation and decides whether to files charges. The U.S. Justice Department is also investigating.


    Trayvon Martin Case: Enhanced Police Video Shows Injuries On George Zimmerman's Head
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  5. #140
    Elite Member Seapharris7's Avatar
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    The media needs to back off this story & wait until the facts come out. At first I thought it was pretty cut & dry, but now with all the publicity and media spin - things are getting way too racially charged
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  6. #141
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    He got beat up... So he didn't over react at all!! Why did he bring the gun out of the house?!?!
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  7. #142
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    In our neighborhood, it was the neighborhood patrol's job to confront anyone who they didn't recognize or who looked suspicious. They were expected to stop that person and ask who they were or what they were doing. So, I absolutely don't think Zimmerman was out of line initially for confronting Trayvon, especially if there had recently been robberies in the neighborhood as reported earlier. It's his job as a volunteer watchman.

    I don't think the sensationalized version of this event that's been splashed all over the media is particularly accurate or representative of what really happened. Especially now that it's being revealed that 911 tapes were doctored to take Zimmerman's statements completely out of context and/or mix and match them in order to pass of him off as a racist.

  8. #143
    Elite Member Seapharris7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    I don't think the sensationalized version of this event that's been splashed all over the media is particularly accurate or representative of what really happened. Especially now that it's being revealed that 911 tapes were doctored to take Zimmerman's statements completely out of context and/or mix and match them in order to pass of him off as a racist.

    Agreed, and whomever did that deserves to be investigated & punished too.

    Seems like the masses has learned nothing from the Tawana Brawley incident & forgotten all about the Duke Lacrosse false accusations...
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    The bottom line is that Zimmerman is hiding behind a law that was designed to protect someone that is REALLY in fear for their life, like at an atm and getting robbed and things along those lines. I feel he should have been detained when the police showed up. I will admit though, that I'm limited in my knowledge of this case because this whole situation just ENRAGES me. I truly feel for his family.
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  10. #145
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    Default Before Trayvon: 3 Notable Stand Your Ground Cases

    Trayvon Martin's tragic death has drawn worldwide attention to Stand Your Ground laws, which generally allow the use of deadly force if a person reasonably feels he is in imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury.

    Trayvon Martin, of course, is not the first victim whose killer claimed a Stand Your Ground defense. Here are three other notable Stand Your Ground cases:

    Hernando Riascos Torres and Diego Ortiz -- Pasadena, Texas (2007):
    Torres, 38, and Ortiz, 30, were undocumented immigrants allegedly caught leaving the scene of a home burglary. Neighbor Joe Horn, 62, called 911.

    "I've got a shotgun," he told a dispatcher. "Do you want me to stop them?"

    "Nope, don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

    But Horn ignored that advice. In his breathless 911 call, Horn can be heard opening his front door, racking his shotgun, and saying, "Hello. You're dead!"

    He shot Torres and Ortiz in the back, killing them both.

    You can hear the fatal shots in the 911 recording.

    A grand jury declined to indict Horn, apparently believing his claim that he feared for his life, the Houston Chronicle reported. In the wake of Trayvon Martin's killing, a Texas lawmaker is vowing to repeal the state's Stand Your Ground law.

    Travares McGill -- Sanford, Fla. (2005)
    McGill, 16, was sitting in a car at an apartment complex when someone shined a bright light into the vehicle. It turned out to be two security guards, who did not identify themselves, the Orlando Sentinel reports.

    McGill tried to back out and get away. The guards -- Bryan Ansley, 28, and William Patrick Swofford, 26 -- opened fire, shooting McGill in the back and killing him.

    Ansley and Swofford claimed self-defense, saying they feared McGill was trying to run them over. A grand jury indicted both guards, but the case was ultimately dismissed.

    Yoshihiro Hattori -- Central, La. (1992):
    Hattori, 16, was a Japanese foreign-exchange student who knocked on the wrong door while looking for a Halloween party. Homeowner Rodney Peairs, 31, claimed he was frightened by Hattori -- so he opened fire and killed him.

    A jury acquitted Peairs of manslaughter in a case that shocked many observers in Japan, The New York Times reports.


    Before Trayvon: 3 Notable Stand Your Ground Cases | Reuters
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  11. #146
    Elite Member Seapharris7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHELLEE View Post
    The bottom line is that Zimmerman is hiding behind a law that was designed to protect someone that is REALLY in fear for their life, like at an atm and getting robbed and things along those lines. I feel he should have been detained when the police showed up. I will admit though, that I'm limited in my knowledge of this case because this whole situation just ENRAGES me. I truly feel for his family.
    I dont mind posting & talking in this forum about it, but I'm trying to stay away from whatever the media is shoving down our throats.

    I feel like a lot of key evidence was lost & to do a proper investigation at this point is going to take work and time.
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  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Torres, 38, and Ortiz, 30, were undocumented immigrants allegedly caught leaving the scene of a home burglary. Neighbor Joe Horn, 62, called 911.

    "I've got a shotgun," he told a dispatcher. "Do you want me to stop them?"

    "Nope, don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

    He shot Torres and Ortiz in the back, killing them both.

    You can hear the fatal shots in the 911 recording.

    A grand jury declined to indict Horn, apparently believing his claim that he feared for his life, the Houston Chronicle reported.

    A few problems, Here's the 9-1-1 Transcript:

    Joe Horn: “I’ve got a shotgun; do you want me to stop them?”


    The Pasadena emergency operator responded: “Nope. Don’t do that. Ain’t no property worth shooting somebody over, O.K.?”


    Mr. Horn said: “But hurry up, man. Catch these guys will you? Cause, I ain’t going to let them go.”


    Mr. Horn then said he would get his shotgun.


    The operator said, “No, no.” But Mr. Horn said: “I can’t take a chance of getting killed over this, O.K.? I’m going to shoot.”


    The operator told him not to go out with a gun because officers would be arriving.


    “O.K.,” Mr. Horn said. “But I have a right to protect myself too, sir,” adding, “The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it.”


    The operator said, “You’re going to get yourself shot.” But Mr. Horn replied, “You want to make a bet? I’m going to kill them.”


    Moments later he said, “Well here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I’m going.”


    Then he said: “Move, you’re dead.”


    There were two quick gunshots, then a third.


    I had no choice,” Mr. Horn said when he got back on the line with the dispatcher. “They came in the front yard with me, man.”




    * That last statement, recorded, was really what saved him. People carry guns, especially in Texas where we also believe strongly in the hang em high concept. The man was in his 60s, dealing with what he KNEW were TWO younger male CRIMINALS. (they weren't carrying skittles, he witnessed them rob his neighbor)
    As a juror I would completely think an elderly man, having someone perpetrating a crime on or near me and my property, would make me feel threatened.


    No, no one should die over anything as petty and stupid as some of these examples - but we live in a society that a burglar can sue a homeowner if he hurts himself in their home while robbing them. Google crazy laws - Texas has A LOT of them, such as you can murder someone as long as you give them 24 hours notice.
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  13. #148
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seapharris7 View Post


    * That last statement, recorded, was really what saved him. People carry guns, especially in Texas where we also believe strongly in the hang em high concept. The man was in his 60s, dealing with what he KNEW were TWO younger male CRIMINALS. (they weren't carrying skittles, he witnessed them rob his neighbor)
    As a juror I would completely think an elderly man, having someone perpetrating a crime on or near me and my property, would make me feel threatened.

    That's not the entire transcript. The actual 911 call is much longer, over 8 minutes. It's on Youtube.

    [YOUTUBE]LLtKCC7z0yc[/YOUTUBE]

    He murdered them. The 911 call makes it clear that shooting them was his intention from the beginning, even when he was safely inside his own home. That's not covered under 'stand your ground' or 'castle doctrine'.

    Defending your life and acting like Charles Bronson in Death Wish aren't the same.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; April 2nd, 2012 at 08:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    .

    Defending your life and acting like Charles Bronson in Death Wish aren't the same.
    That's what I feel happened with Zimmerman, he was acting like Charles Bronson imo.
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    I think Joe Horn should be in jail.
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