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Thread: Scott Peterson's Death Penalty Sentence Reversed

  1. #16
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I'm sure some people think of the death penalty as a possible deterrent. I don't. I think of it as the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime. I realize, though, that some people think of it that way. I also realize that some people think of it as a bargaining chip to do things like get innocent people to plead guilty to a murder they didn't commit so that they at least wouldn't get executed for a crime they didn't commit. Or used as a bargaining chip to get a serial killer to tell where they buried their victims so that the family can have some peace - and that it is worth the families to take the death penalty off the table so that they can do that. It's a very complex topic, fraught with emotion and has been argued since the dawn of time.

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    Elite Member Trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    For an egregious crime - mass murder, spree killer, serial killer, pre-meditated child killer - I think the offense is such that allowing them to continue to breathe air on this planet is a mockery of the victims' lives and what they were worth.
    I will reluctantly agree with you. Some crimes, it just seems like we shouldn't have to house these people for the rest of their days, there is nothing redeemable and they just need to go. I'm talking the Ted Bundys of the world. Especially if it gives some peace, comfort or closure to the victims' families. And again, if there's a death penalty it just gives the inmate years and years of appeals, at taxpayer expense because god forbid they are deprived of their rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterslide View Post
    The way it was described to me a million years ago in my Criminal Justice class was that punishment is meant to be a deterrent and the death penalty has obviously not deterred anyone from murder. Even if executions were a public event it world more than likely than not deter people from murder.

    I can understand the emotional appeal of the death penalty, but logically, not so much. The system is obviously not perfect and there is too much bias of all kinds on whether someone is sentenced to death or not.

    I figured this would happen, regardless.

    @Novice I always have to think about which one I'm talking about - Drew or Scott - before I say their names. They're both vile.
    I agree, I don't think it's a deterrent at all. Not like a perp is thinking, oh I better not do this, I might get the death penalty. Once someone has crossed the line to murder, they're already gone.
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  3. #18
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterslide View Post
    The way it was described to me a million years ago in my Criminal Justice class was that punishment is meant to be a deterrent and the death penalty has obviously not deterred anyone from murder. Even if executions were a public event it world more than likely than not deter people from murder.

    I can understand the emotional appeal of the death penalty, but logically, not so much. The system is obviously not perfect and there is too much bias of all kinds on whether someone is sentenced to death or not.
    exactly.
    the only reasons for the death penalty are emotional, not rational.
    not to mention the way it's applied is beyond biased and unfair, so the only logical conclusion is to get rid of it.
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  4. #19
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I agree that there is a huge amount of bias involved in the application of the death penalty, but that's not a reason to get rid of it any more than there is a reason to get rid of a bunch of other governmental responsibilities that are afflicted with bias. I also agree that people will often call for the death penalty from emotion. However, it is not accurate to say that it only is argued from emotion.

  5. #20
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    i've yet to hear an argument in favour of the death penalty that isn't rooted in emotion or biblical/religious concepts of justice.
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  6. #21
    Elite Member OrangeSlice's Avatar
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    I think in some instances the death penalty feels good, but it's just not practical. There are some, but not a majority of cases by any means, where the culprit is 100% no doubt guilty and there is no shadow of a doubt. But there are too many where it is not. And once convicted, it takes a massive amount of time, energy, and resources to carry out the penalty. I would be happy if we had that massive amount of financial and human resources to point in another direction like towards funding prevention programs, early childhood programs, etc. that would actually make a difference in crime and people's lives.
    "Schadenfreude, hard to spell, easy to feel." ~VenusinFauxFurs

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  7. #22
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I'm not moved by the "death penalty cost" argument at all. And the reason is that many death penalty opponents have made it a goal to drag out the process as long as possible and make it as costly as possible.

    Also, with regard to abuse of the use of the death penalty, statutorily you can raise the bar for where the death penalty would apply. Just like we do with other criminal statutes.

  8. #23
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    just look at the countries that have the death penalty and those that don't, and look at those countries' justice systems, and the rates of recidivism. i know what club i would rather be a part of.
    on the DP, the US is alone with a bunch of human rights abusing failed states, and japan, which is pretty backward on some issues, such as women's rights (but who very rarely applies the DP). it's not unlike the lack of federally mandated maternity leave, where the US is also pretty much alone against the rest of the world (and very, very wrong). the US' criminal justice system is broken and racist, and in a system like that there is no way the DP will ever be applied fairly, even if it were possible for the DP to ever be fair, which i don't think it is. you can't fix the problems with the DP without first rebuilding this country's awful justice system.

    at the very least, DP supporters should own the fact that they're driven by emotion and vengeance, not justice.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Well, first of all, three of the largest democracies in the world, US, India, and Japan, all have capital punishment on the books. Japan executed Shoko Asahara (by hanging), the leader of the Aum Shinrikyo death cult, in 2018. India carried out one this year. So, it's not just on their books, they use it in egregious cases.

    I'm sure that there are some DP supporters who are driven by emotion and vengeance. I think that while you could never get proportionate "vengeance" against someone like Ted Bundy without slowly raping and torturing him to death, like he did to his 12 victims, it makes sense that a person who commits atrocious murders, and who has indisputably committed them, should forfeit their lives. You could just as easily argue that putting a serial killer like Joseph DeAngelo in prison for life is just vengeful since he is now wheelchair bound and is no longer a threat to anybody.

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    Elite Member Trixie's Avatar
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    I don't feel any emotion or vengeance about it, but again, if you're talking about somebody like Bundy I wouldn't be fighting for his life to be spared. His crimes were so numerous, and depraved and he destroyed so many families that I do feel justice was served. Especially since he was sniveling like a coward when it came to his impending death, trying to cut deals by confessing to more crimes. Die, motherfucker. I draw the line at serial and baby killers.

    In Peterson's case, I don't even think the death penalty should've been on the table. It was a strong circumstantial case, but not much else. Life in prison without the possibility of parole seems more fitting. Same with Jodi Arias. The victim's family wanted nothing short of the death penalty but they didn't get it. And Casey Anthony, they were crazy to go for the death penalty in the first place. If they'd gone for lesser charges she might not have walked.
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  11. #26
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Well, first of all, three of the largest democracies in the world, US, India, and Japan, all have capital punishment on the books. Japan executed Shoko Asahara (by hanging), the leader of the Aum Shinrikyo death cult, in 2018. India carried out one this year. So, it's not just on their books, they use it in egregious cases.

    I'm sure that there are some DP supporters who are driven by emotion and vengeance. I think that while you could never get proportionate "vengeance" against someone like Ted Bundy without slowly raping and torturing him to death, like he did to his 12 victims, it makes sense that a person who commits atrocious murders, and who has indisputably committed them, should forfeit their lives. You could just as easily argue that putting a serial killer like Joseph DeAngelo in prison for life is just vengeful since he is now wheelchair bound and is no longer a threat to anybody.
    Largest democracies doesn't mean they're good ones. India is not a good one. Just look at the shit going on there. Same with Japan, they've got some major skeletons in their closet and they're not great with human rights. The US is a western democracy and in that group, its position on the DP is most definitely an outlier.
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  12. #27
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder.

    There have been 157 (up to 2017) where it's been proved that someone else did the killing, meaning that 157 innocents would have died at the hand of a legal system that is supposed to help and protect them.

    An interesting fact I learnt is that of the"volunteers" 11% of those on death row and the prevalence of mental illness amongst them
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  13. #28
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    The standard definition of Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification or valid excuse. Capital punishment is by definition lawful, because it is sanctioned and administered by the state. Mental illness is a very broad term. Do I think Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy were mentally ill? Yes - because thinking that you are entitled to brutally take the lives of scores of innocent teenagers is not mentally normal. But were they mentally well enough to be held responsible for their crimes? Yes.

  14. #29
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    it doesn't bother you that the US is the only western country to still have the death penalty? and the only other developed countries that have it are japan, taiwan and sinagpore. 137 countries have abolished the death penalty. these are the countries that still have it:


    1. Afghanistan
    2. India
    3. Nigeria
    4. US
    5. Iran
    6. Japan
    7. Taiwan
    8. Kuwait
    9. Zimbabwe
    10. Libya
    11. Thailand
    12. Guyana
    13. Uganda
    14. Bangladesh
    15. Iraq
    16. Indonesia
    17. Botswana
    18. UAE
    19. Bahamas
    20. Cuba
    21. Belarus
    22. Yemen
    23. Saudi Arabia
    24. Vietnam
    25. Syria
    26. Egypt
    27. South Sudan
    28. DRC
    29. Ethiopia
    30. China
    31. Sudan
    32. Comoros
    33. Somalia
    34. Barbados
    35. Malaysia
    36. Chad
    37. Pakistan
    38. Oman
    39. Singapore
    40. St Kitts and Nevis
    41. St Lucia
    42. Bahrain
    43. North Korea
    44. Equatorial Guinea
    45. St Vincent and the Grenadines
    46. Palestinian territories
    47. Trinidad and Tobago
    48. Lesotho
    49. Antigua and Barbuda
    50. Belize
    51. Dominica
    52. Jamaica
    53. Jordan


    but of those, most don't really apply it and just keep it on the books and have abolished it in practice, or only allow it in exceptional circumstances, like wartime. these are the numbers for 2018:

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  15. #30
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    The standard definition of Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification or valid excuse. Capital punishment is by definition lawful, because it is sanctioned and administered by the state. Mental illness is a very broad term. Do I think Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy were mentally ill? Yes - because thinking that you are entitled to brutally take the lives of scores of innocent teenagers is not mentally normal. But were they mentally well enough to be held responsible for their crimes? Yes.
    And "Extraordinary Rendition" is the kidnap & torture of other countries citizens by the CIA.
    Words make actions "acceptable" and sooth uncomfortable feelings.

    The "volunteers" who have mental illness and *not* serial killers but people that "volunteer" to go on to death row - maybe not understanding fully what they are doing.
    You're discussing apples to my oranges.


    Does it not tell you anything that the EU *banned* the sale of pharmaceuticals for "capital punishment, torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" in 2012.
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