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Thread: Richard Ramirez, "The Night Stalker," has died

  1. #31
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    it's not supposed to re-balance the damage wrought. those victims will never be brought back. justice isn't about doing to the perpetrator what he/she did to the victims. that's exactly my point.
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  2. #32
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it's not supposed to re-balance the damage wrought. those victims will never be brought back. justice isn't about doing to the perpetrator what he/she did to the victims. that's exactly my point.
    Of course it's not about doing what Ramirez did to the victims. Otherwise, his pending execution would have consisted of a violent raping, followed by a stabbing, followed by a shooting.

    There are many different concepts of "justice". For people who believe that justice involves the administration of consequences based on a person's actions, those consequences may include administering the death penalty. Other people may feel differently.
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  3. #33
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    it's not even about the death penalty. i mean, i oppose it. and so does every other developed, industrialised nation with the exception of the US, but that's another discussion. my post was mostly in reply to posters who were bitching that he hadn't been executed swiftly after the trial and had been given the chance to file appeals, etc. basically, the posters bitching about due process. and the ones who complained that his victims hadn't been given such considerations, so he shouldn't either.
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  4. #34
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it's not even about the death penalty. i mean, i oppose it. and so does every other developed, industrialised nation with the exception of the US, but that's another discussion. my post was mostly in reply to posters who were bitching that he hadn't been executed swiftly after the trial and had been given the chance to file appeals, etc. basically, the posters bitching about due process. and the ones who complained that his victims hadn't been given such considerations, so he shouldn't either.
    Okay, I get that. By the way, India and Japan have the death penalty. Japan has executed about 70 people or more since 1993 (including two people in April of this year).
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  5. #35
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    india isn't developed or industrialised. and ok, i mean western industrialised and developed nation - japan isn't western.
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  6. #36
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    india isn't developed or industrialised. and ok, i mean western industrialised and developed nation - japan isn't western.
    You're coming across as VERY hemispherist, Sputnik.

  7. #37
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    lol it's true though. india's not a developed nation. parts of it are, but on the whole it's really not. and japan isn't western.
    granted, though, it's the only country as developed and industrialised as the west, that still has the death penalty.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  8. #38
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I am going to heatedly debate this with you once I locate my compass and carefully annotated maps of industrial zones!

  9. #39
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    i look forward to a veritable déluge of pie charts and graphs and other statistical paraphernalia.
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  10. #40
    Elite Member Kathie_Moffett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    He was originally caught when he was almost beaten to death by an angry mob who had figured out who he was while he was trying to steal a car. The LAPD saved him from certain death.
    Best serial killer takedown ever. No, I am not a fan of organized mob justice/vigilantism, but this was pure chance, spontaneous and quite amazing. I love it that it was just a buncha blue collar guys who went "hey! it's that evil POS who's murdering people! get him!" and they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia View Post
    This makes me wish I believed in hell.
    Don't be too sure, Ramirez was insistent that hell was his kinda vacation spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Vengeance is a broad term, though. For some people, death penalty represents the ultimate vengeance, but it's not like you can kill Ramirez 13 times - one for each victim. Killing him after exhaustive appeals and in a very antiseptic setting (especially as compared to the way he arbitrarily and tortuously dispatched other people) is a very pale re-balancing of the damage that was wrought by this guy.
    Yeah, I'm not sure what purpose the death penalty has really. It's not a deterrent (except for the executee, obviously!) because it's not implemented in such a way as to be effectual in that capacity. If it were to have any real deterrent effect, we'd have to do what we did in the 50s: arrest, try, execute. In a year or two. Quite shocking when we look at it now. But it may have actually dissuaded some folks from truly evil acts. Thing is, you can't prove a negative, so we'll never know if it "worked."

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Okay, I get that. By the way, India and Japan have the death penalty. Japan has executed about 70 people or more since 1993 (including two people in April of this year).
    Yeah, I don't really see Taiwan or Malaysia as barbaric countries full of beetlebrowed, ignorant cavepeople either, any more than the US or Japan or India. I don't think this is a moral issue as much as an emotional, irrational one really. It doesn't make you a superior being to eschew the death penalty. One can really see this in former opponents of capital punishment who change their minds when a loved one runs across someone like Ramirez.

    I think it's a waste of money and doesn't fix anything, personally. But I get why some people want it. And it is outrageous that a majority of the citizenry in CA want it and vote it in again and again, only to run up against elected officials who basically don't want to abide by a democratic vote. Somehow that's okay. It's not okay, and I say that as someone who doesn't support capital punishment.

    In the meantime, those who receive life should work to support themselves like everybody else. I doubt Ramirez ever held a job in prison. Other than maybe spitting in the food while serving in the cafeteria.

    Oh, I did hear that he shanked Scott Peterson one time and was always giving him shit. I guess that's like the "even a stopped clock is right twice a day" type thing.
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  11. #41
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^
    i didn't say that every country that has the death penalty is barbaric. i was talking about countries that have expedited trials and shitty 'justice' systems with no due process.
    although, malaysia is a terrible example. especially since it has a dual justice system that applies sharia law to muslims and civil law to everyone else - and the lines are often blurred and abuses frequent. especially when it comes to freedom of religion, or lack thereof. they do 'enlightened' shit like caning people for drinking alcohol, try them for sodomy, and other great stuff like that.
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  12. #42
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    They execute people for drugs in Malaysia. They don't allows gays to work in the media or even be depicted in it unless they die or repent. It's pretty fucking barbaric in many regards.
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  13. #43
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    There is a lot of local lore around here when it comes to the Night Stalker. So many of my friends lived through those blazing hot summer nights, all closed in their houses. No one would sleep with their windows open for fear of this guy sliding in at night, butchering the whole family.

  14. #44
    Elite Member Sylkyn's Avatar
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    Well, if he died of Hep-C complications (which I read briefly of this morning), I can assure you he got a death sentence MUCH worse than what a single shot to the arm would've done. My sister has it, and her meds are NOT working. It's fucking agony and horror. So maybe karma bitch-slapped his ass better than any "justice" any country could have dealt.
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  15. #45
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    I watched a short interview with him on youtube today. What a pompous condescending asshole.
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