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Thread: Reports of at least two dead & 24 injured in Gun attack at Las Vegas Country Festival

  1. #121
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    ^Like that picture (I think it's further upthread) of the women hiding in what looks like a supply closet, crying as they're talking on their phones - that photo really got to me. Imagine hiding out, hearing the gunfire all around you, and calling your loved ones to speak to them for what you honestly believe may be the last time - that would be traumatic enough for me.
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  2. #122
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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  3. #123
    Elite Member gas_chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithanne View Post
    As a non-American, I'm really curious to know what they are.
    As an American, I'm really curious myself. I don't own a gun nor do I want to. If the government comes for me to throw me in a camp, me owning a gun isn't going to stop them. I guess I could see it for home protection but when it actually came down to me shooting an actual person, I wonder if I'd freeze up even if my life was in danger but yet again none of this has to do with the type and amount of weapons this piece of shit had. It should never happen and it must be stopped.
    I am going to come and burn the fucking house down... but you will blow me first."

  4. #124
    Elite Member C_is_for_Cookie's Avatar
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    Experts say fighting back is the last resort, the things you should be doing in a situation like this is run or hide. People pulling out guns, thinking they are Rambo, are going to get themselves killed by police because they think they are part of the people doing it or getting even more people killed because of the chaos that will happen.
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  5. #125
    Gold Member Froogy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gas_chick View Post
    As an American, I'm really curious myself. I don't own a gun nor do I want to. If the government comes for me to throw me in a camp, me owning a gun isn't going to stop them. I guess I could see it for home protection but when it actually came down to me shooting an actual person, I wonder if I'd freeze up even if my life was in danger but yet again none of this has to do with the type and amount of weapons this piece of shit had. It should never happen and it must be stopped.
    This exactly. My family (all military men) want me to own a gun. I refuse. Most likely if there were to be a home invasion, it would be at night while I was asleep. I feel like I would not be of sound mind to get up, load it and actually have the gumption to use it on someone. More than likely, they would take it from me and use it on me. I think I would be much more likely to survive by calling 911 with the phone that is inches from my head.

  6. #126
    Gold Member Froogy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_is_for_Cookie View Post
    Experts say fighting back is the last resort, the things you should be doing in a situation like this is run or hide. People pulling out guns, thinking they are Rambo, are going to get themselves killed by police because they think they are part of the people doing it or getting even more people killed because of the chaos that will happen.
    Sorry for 2nd post, multiple quote is not working.

    This times 1000. Police are HUMAN, they come into a fight or flight situation and see someone with a gun, they are going to have a knee jerk reaction and shoot them, right or wrong. Also, if everyone has guns "to protect themselves" dont you think there would be so much cross fire that more people would be injured? Just my thoughts...
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  7. #127
    Elite Member dolem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevan View Post
    Being pro gun for multiple reasons, I DO agree there should be a limit on how many guns you're allowed to own and there should be a national registry. My state (NJ) has very strict gun laws, and I'm fine with that. I think the problem is ... and this is hard for me because I'm very anti-big government ... there are several states that have really lax laws. I could swear the AK-47 was banned for civilian use back in the Clinton era, but I guess I'm mistaken. Bumps and silencers should be banned, there's no place for them in a civilized world. This guy bought all these guns legally and the bumps (which I believe are illegal but not sure) were found somewhere. There's something wrong with that.
    The AK-47 was banned from 1994-2004 Sadly, after the ban was lifted in 2004 sales have sky rocketed since then.

    Bumps and other modifications aren't illegal, per se. As far as I can tell from internet research, you can buy them legally, but installing them and using them is illegal. Kind of a fucked up loop hole.

    I'm fine with people owning guns, in legal and responsible way. That being said, I'm not ok with Semi Automatic rifles. Shot guns or hand guns which are used for defense or hunting are totally fine. Semi-Automatic guns really are only used to kill in a quick manner, aka murder. You'd never use the in hunting because they would destroy the animal and meat. I also think there should be a national limit. Buying 33 guns in one year is excessive and should not happen
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  8. #128
    Elite Member Nevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithanne View Post
    As a non-American, I'm really curious to know what they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by gas_chick View Post
    As an American, I'm really curious myself. I don't own a gun nor do I want to. If the government comes for me to throw me in a camp, me owning a gun isn't going to stop them. I guess I could see it for home protection but when it actually came down to me shooting an actual person, I wonder if I'd freeze up even if my life was in danger but yet again none of this has to do with the type and amount of weapons this piece of shit had. It should never happen and it must be stopped.
    1-) I live in an area where hunting is part of our culture. Almost every man I know (and a few women) hunts white-tailed deer, rabbit (much less than deer) and several types of fowl. My state has many different seasons of hunting. There's shotgun (rifles are illegal to hunt with in NJ, but my dad co-owns a private hunting lodge in PA where rifle is legal) season, bow season and muzzleloader season, and probably more that I'm not remembering. White-tailed deer are very overpopulated here and if there weren't several hunting seasons, they'd be everywhere. I've had two accidents involving deer, and many, many close calls. Everyone that I know that hunts (I do not) eats what they kill, or knows someone that loves the taste of game/venison (I do not). During rutting season, there are *always* dead deer lining the streets after they've been the cause of an accident. Many of those accidents are either fatal or the vehicles are totaled. One famous town in NJ is too populated with people to allow civilians shooting at deer so they hire professional hunters that cull the deer by driving a bolt into the deer's brain. Some people here consider venison a delicacy, some consider it as meat to carry them through the winter. The latter is especially true in ME where I have family. There are people that would starve (not even joking) without game meat in the freezer for winter .... and they have bear season up there too (yup, my family also eats bear meat).

    2-) Target shooting. I do this myself (although not in a while). I know lots of people that do as well. It's fun and kind of a weird relaxing exhilaration, if that makes sense. I'm a pretty good shot too. I've only ever shot at targets, not anything alive, ever.

    3-) Home security. Two towns over, there is a huge population of gangsters (literal gang members). You can buy an illegal gun on any street corner. In fact, a guy that I dated when I was about 18 wound up getting in a love triangle with his brother and sister-in-law. The brothers figured instead of fighting over her, they'd kill her for the insurance money. They bought the gun (and this was testified to on the stand, one of the brothers turned on the other when faced with the death penalty) in that very town. My own town's crime rate has risen quite a bit in the two years that I've been gone (next town over). There's been a rash of burglaries here. Even if you take all the legal guns away, there is still an *EXTRAORDINARY* amount of illegal weapons on the street. Also, I'm a very law-abiding citizen. I have no fear that the government is going to try and haul me away anytime soon.

    4-) Less of an issue, but I have several family members and quite a few friends that are LEO. They tend to carry them wherever they go and often have backups in their vehicles. I know at least two of the people I'm talking about are required by their department to carry whenever they leave home, even off duty.

    Basically, I know a lot of people that own weapons. I've had this conversation multiple times here. I've had guns around me my whole life. I was taught gun safety at a very young age. My ex and I have volunteered at Youth Hunting Days (I have a very good friend that organizes these for the NJ Fish & Wildlife Department), where they teach hunter/gun safety. I have absolutely no issue with strict gun laws (my state itself is pretty strict). I think that people who wish to have guns and follow the law and pass the background check should be able to own a gun. I don't think anyone needs dozens of guns. I don't think anyone should have a bump, a magazine extender or a silencer (and all those are illegal, as far as I'm aware). But until they find and confiscate all the illegal guns, there will always be legal guns in the US. I don't see that going away anytime soon and the idea that they can find even a small amount of illegally held guns is laughable. Also, the NRA doesn't have anywhere near as much clout as they did 20-30 years ago and earlier. Not many people I know take them seriously anymore.
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  9. #129
    Elite Member Nevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolem View Post
    The AK-47 was banned from 1994-2004 Sadly, after the ban was lifted in 2004 sales have sky rocketed since then.

    Bumps and other modifications aren't illegal, per se. As far as I can tell from internet research, you can buy them legally, but installing them and using them is illegal. Kind of a fucked up loop hole.

    I'm fine with people owning guns, in legal and responsible way. That being said, I'm not ok with Semi Automatic rifles. Shot guns or hand guns which are used for defense or hunting are totally fine. Semi-Automatic guns really are only used to kill in a quick manner, aka murder. You'd never use the in hunting because they would destroy the animal and meat. I also think there should be a national limit. Buying 33 guns in one year is excessive and should not happen
    Sorry, I typed out my reply and walked away from it for a few hours. When I came back it wouldn't let me manually add in another quote.

    I'm aware that mods are sold and technically legal and only illegal when retrofitted onto an otherwise legal gun. That, I absolutely agree, should be changed. But we live in a world where people can get pretty creative with a welder or, geez, even now, a 3D printer.

    There is no reason that anyone needs to own an AK-47. That's a shame that the ban no longer exists. That's something else that should be changed. I don't agree with the fact that they grandfathered them in during the ban, but I can imagine that was because it's very impractical to force people to give up weapons, especially someone that feels they need an AK-47. I would imagine there would be plenty of loss of life on both sides.

    There are semi-auto rifles and semi-auto handguns, I think you meant to include both. Just to be clear, automatic means you only have to hold down the trigger and it will shoot bullets out until the mag is empty. Semi-automatic means that you have to pull the trigger for each bullet until the mag is empty. There's a big difference. Again, this is just me and my experience, but I think semi-autos are okay if you are following gun laws. I have one. I don't know anyone that has a semi-auto (or auto) rifle or shotgun. I'm sure they're out there, but I've never seen one or been in the presence of one.

    Again, I'm all for strict gun laws. But I think you should be able to own a gun if you follow the law and acquire it legally. I do know people that have several handguns (my ex does) but everyone that does has them as collector's items or were inherited from relatives. I do not think anyone should be able to own 33 guns, ever.
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  10. #130
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gas_chick View Post
    As an American, I'm really curious myself. I don't own a gun nor do I want to. If the government comes for me to throw me in a camp, me owning a gun isn't going to stop them. I guess I could see it for home protection but when it actually came down to me shooting an actual person, I wonder if I'd freeze up even if my life was in danger but yet again none of this has to do with the type and amount of weapons this piece of shit had. It should never happen and it must be stopped.
    If the government came for you then they are going to arrive as a unit, armed to the teeth and wearing body armor. People can spout their mantra about needing guns to protect themselves against an unjust Gub'ment all they want but the reality is that in the unlikely event of the state turning on the populace these Militia minded people are going to be a red smear before they know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Froogy View Post
    This exactly. My family (all military men) want me to own a gun. I refuse. Most likely if there were to be a home invasion, it would be at night while I was asleep. I feel like I would not be of sound mind to get up, load it and actually have the gumption to use it on someone. More than likely, they would take it from me and use it on me. I think I would be much more likely to survive by calling 911 with the phone that is inches from my head.
    It isn't just that - how many people die in the US every year because a family member mistook them for an intruder? According to a quick Google search on the 1st October a 15 year old boy was shot dead by a family member as he tried to sneak in or out of the house during the night. The family member mistook him for an intruder. The next result that Google throws up is about a sixteen year old girl who was shot by her own father as she tried to sneak back in to the house. Thankfully she survived. Those are teenagers doing what teenagers the world over do, and they got shot for it.

    According to CDC statistics between 2005 and 2010 there were 3,800 deaths in the US due to accidental shootings. Over 1,300 of those were under twenty-fives. It has been found that in states where there is a high incidence of gun ownership the rate of accidental gun fatalities is NINE times higher than in states with the lowest levels of gun ownership.
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  11. #131
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    A very big part of strict gun control that often goes unmentioned is the noted decrease in suicide when firearms are unavailable. About two-thirds of the 35,000 U.S. firearm deaths each year are suicides. Cutting off access to guns decreases that substantially, as numerous studies prove.

    Also, events like this tend to focus attention on long guns and 'assault weapons', which is understandable, but the big problem here in the US is handguns. Killing by handguns dwarf these horrific events.

    Now, like many other American kids i was raised around guns. Learned to shoot a rifle before i could ride a bike without training wheels. My grandfather was a very well known sportsman and shooting instructor, who at any given time would have 20-40 firearms in his safe. Never a handgun. Why? In his words- because handguns have only one purpose, to kill people. He resigned from the NRA back in the 80s after being a member and NRA instructor for almost 50 years , because he saw them change from a sporting association to what he termed a 'political group'. He was a big believer in gun control as well. Smart man, i miss him.

    One of the things I've been thinking about is how some US states (like Nevada) don't even require individual registration on firearms. So there is no way for anyone to know how many guns individuals in those states even own. Thats mind blowing.
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  12. #132
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    A very big part of strict gun control that often goes unmentioned is the noted decrease in suicide when firearms are unavailable. About two-thirds of the 35,000 U.S. firearm deaths each year are suicides. Cutting off access to guns decreases that substantially, as numerous studies prove.

    Also, events like this tend to focus attention on long guns and 'assault weapons', which is understandable, but the big problem here in the US is handguns. Killing by handguns dwarf these horrific events.

    Now, like many other American kids i was raised around guns. Learned to shoot a rifle before i could ride a bike without training wheels. My grandfather was a very well known sportsman and shooting instructor, who at any given time would have 20-40 firearms in his safe. Never a handgun. Why? In his words- because handguns have only one purpose, to kill people. He resigned from the NRA back in the 80s after being a member and NRA instructor for almost 50 years , because he saw them change from a sporting association to what he termed a 'political group'. He was a big believer in gun control as well. Smart man, i miss him.

    One of the things I've been thinking about is how some US states (like Nevada) don't even require individual registration on firearms. So there is no way for anyone to know how many guns individuals in those states even own. Thats mind blowing.
    I don't know if this is true or not (on a state to state basis) but I've heard that there is no obligation to do any kind of documentation to show a change of ownership when you sell a gun privately. You have to do this for a car so why not a gun??
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  13. #133
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^you are correct. private-party sellers are not required to record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue (private home, trunk of a car, bus station men's room). Private sales are also a handy way to avoid those pesky background checks.

    Those loopholes need to be closed.

    Al Qaeda and ISIS have actually posted public calls to go to American gun shows to buy their guns because it's so damn easy. See here for an example.

    Really the gun culture as a whole needs to go, because that's going to be the biggest ideological mitigator of the chance of legislation going through and its effectiveness once it does go through.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; October 6th, 2017 at 07:07 AM.
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  14. #134
    Elite Member levitt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittylady View Post
    In 2017 thirty-six people have died in terrorist incidents (including Alt-Right attackers). That's twenty-two FEWER fatalities than one man caused in Las Vegas. Overall between January and October of this year three hundred and forty-six Americans have been killed in mass shootings. But we're the ones who've got it wrong??
    This makes me sad, because 22 of those in the UK are Manchester
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  15. #135
    Elite Member gas_chick's Avatar
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    I had an argument with my father last night. I live in the rural south and you can bet your ass there are guns every where and I know about them and have handled them and I hate them. I hate them all. I can't with the argument that gun control won't stop anything. He didn't want to listen to the Australian numbers or any reason whatsoever. All people like him hear is taking all my guns away. All we want is killing machines banned and registration and regulations so some domestic terrorist isn't able to stockpile weapons and shoot American citizens like fish in a fucking barrel. I don't understand and will never understand why this hasn't been accomplished already. The NRA feels like a terrorist organization to me. They sure won't listen to reason and they have plenty of suicide attackers to their name.
    I am going to come and burn the fucking house down... but you will blow me first."

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