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Thread: Police to interview Burke Ramsey RE: JonBenet. Possible break in the case?

  1. #121
    Gold Member BigBen's Avatar
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    I have one big giant question, guys.

    Why would somebody leave a ransom note and also leave the dead kid's body in the house? What the fuck? That's the biggest red flag that this was a cover-up. The "small foreign faction" would've ONLY had JonBenet as leverage for ransom, so what the fuck? Dead kid in the basement = NO RANSOM.

    Plus that's totally Patsy's handwriting. Sorry everybody. She tried to cover that up but it's pretty fucking obvious.
    "Not only do we embrace it, we take it out for drinks, get it absolutely steaming drunk, leg hump it and then leave it covered in shaving foam and a stolen Chuck E Cheese outfit in its own bath with no recollection of how it got there." -Kittylady on the sad and pathetic and strange.

  2. #122
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    I think a lot of it is just how impossible this crime seems like it would have been to pull off and get away with, no matter who did it. It's one of those things that I just want to KNOW what really happened. Personally, when I die I want everything I've ever wondered about to be revealed to me. Like what the hell happened to my great-aunt's diamond ring that I lost somewhere....and what happened to JonBenet and also whether the West Memphis 3 in Arkansas are really guilty or not. Fascinating mysteries, in my opinion (well, the lost ring not so much).
    i'd rather know about your ring and the west memphis 3 than jonbenet. i don't think she'd even be on my list. i mean, i get fascinating mysteries but this one just never held any appeal to me, and what little i did think about it made me think one or both of her psycho nouveau riche white trash parents were involved.
    but this is no black dahlia or jack the ripper or jfk...
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  3. #123
    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
    I have one big giant question, guys.

    Why would somebody leave a ransom note and also leave the dead kid's body in the house? What the fuck? That's the biggest red flag that this was a cover-up. The "small foreign faction" would've ONLY had JonBenet as leverage for ransom, so what the fuck? Dead kid in the basement = NO RANSOM.

    Plus that's totally Patsy's handwriting. Sorry everybody. She tried to cover that up but it's pretty fucking obvious.
    This!
    I read an article the other day that said mothers who kill their kids are most likely to either leave them in the house or near by the house. They are much less likely to go and dump them somewhere than the fathers.

  4. #124
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    The start of the ransom note
    "Mr. Ramsey. Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']We xx respect your bussiness but not the country that it serves.[/font] At this time we have your daughter in our posession. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter. You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills."

    Does anyone else think that perhaps Islamic mafia was involved? Just the highlighted line in the note seems to indicate foreign involvement.
    I think the Ramseys knew more than they say but I think the ties with his business is where they should be looking.

  5. #125
    Gold Member BigBen's Avatar
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    Why would they say they were foreign? They're not foreign to themselves. And I heard somewhere that the dollar amount mentioned in the note was the exact amount of John's Christmas bonus? What the fuck?
    "Not only do we embrace it, we take it out for drinks, get it absolutely steaming drunk, leg hump it and then leave it covered in shaving foam and a stolen Chuck E Cheese outfit in its own bath with no recollection of how it got there." -Kittylady on the sad and pathetic and strange.

  6. #126
    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    jeebus, how can people still care this much?
    I think it's because it looked so obvious (based on media portrayal) that the parents were involved. That brings up a lot of rage in people.

    If you believe they did it, you think they got away with it (more rage). If you think they are innocent, you rage against the injustice done to that mother.

    Lotsa rage I guess.

  7. #127
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    Exactly- John's x-mas bonus. I think the ties go back to his business because when this happened in the 1st place his business relationship were hands off even more so than the focus on the family.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornFlakegrl View Post
    Well, I don't know that much about DNA but it's impossible that dna from inside her underwear and on her outer long johns were from the same factory worker or other random source.

    And the DA says they were a match which means some unknown person touched her. Why would they lie?

    I will say that if the original dna was so badly degraded that gives me pause. The dna left by the killer would have been hours old. Unless the CO pd screwed it up before testing.
    The match would be flawed by the bad samples. Any random 2 sets of DNA will match for the majority of alleles. With such damaged and microscopic DNA sources, not enough sample existed to find the differences.

    I have grave reservations about this Touch DNA crap, too. It sounds like junk science to me, on the surface of it.

    A lot of junk science has been used convicted people of crimes they didn't commit. DAs and juries don't want to tease through the details.
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  9. #129
    Elite Member cmmdee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
    I have one big giant question, guys.

    Why would somebody leave a ransom note and also leave the dead kid's body in the house? What the fuck? Dead kid in the basement = NO RANSOM.

    Plus that's totally Patsy's handwriting. Sorry everybody. She tried to cover that up but it's pretty fucking obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
    Why would they say they were foreign? They're not foreign to themselves. And I heard somewhere that the dollar amount mentioned in the note was the exact amount of John's Christmas bonus? What the fuck?

    BigBen, you are cracking me up and so is your avvatar!

    I can't remember how the phone call went but I read one book where it said Patty's voice was weird or something... like in the beginning of her report.

  10. #130
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post
    ^^^Six experts testified that it was NOT Patsy.
    paid for by the defence presumably. It's only of interest if the prosecution are saying this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    This thread makes me glad I never got obsessed with this case.
    there. That's better. All the obsessions with the child murder threads here, posting "evidence" & trying to persuade others of ones point of view I find creepy, to the point of obsession. A bit like that poster from websleuths that ingraciated herself in an investigation only for them to discover that she was a convicted pedophile. *shudder*
    Free Charmed.

  11. #131
    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    And remember this was DNA found on the waistband of Jonbenet's clothing, where someone who would have forcibly removed clothes would have had their hands.
    What's the source that there was touch DNA samples on her pants? The JBR Encycplodia lists only samples taken from underneath her fingernails and her underwear.

    As for there being "plenty" of sample to test - if there was that much DNA they would do a regular PCR analysis. The very purpose of touch DNA is that it's used when there is only 10 or less skin cells available. An abundance of DNA excludes touch DNA testing.

    And yes, there are some other labs that do touch DNA testing. That's why I wrote that the Houcks handle MOST of it - including in the Ramsey case.

    No one in LE has ever seen a ransom note like the one left at the Ramseys' house. Real ransom notes are short since the more you write, the more you reveal. They're also short, crude and to the point because the person wants to get in and out of the scene ASAP.

    Linguistics analysis of the note revealed that the person who wrote it was highly educated, likely a college graduate, and native English speaker - who slips a couple of times into language quirks commonly seen in American Southern English speakers (Patsy Ramsey was a Southern women with a journalism degree). The spelling and grammar are precise and even the note itself is laid out in classic English formal style (salutation, introduction, body, closing, signature). What gets me is that while the note began as addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey" (again, what considerate, highly educated terrorists!) but then the rest of the note makes several direct statements to ONLY John. The note was not to JonBenet's parents, or even "John and Patsy," the writer is addressing solely John. And lines like "We respect your business but not the country it serves" are incredible - the writer of the note not only gets personal but takes the time to praise John Ramsey! See - they'll kill his daughter but not insult him, that would just be crass. The note's author wants everyone to know that John Ramsey is so powerful and respected.

    The ransom note was very personal not even intruder theorists believe its claims that it was written by a "small foreign faction." Right there is a tip off that whoever wrote the note was deliberately misleading and trying to mask their true identity. But then making the "ransom" price a fairly paltry sum that happens to have been the exact amount of John Ramsey's Christmas bonus it tries to point the finger at being someone he worked with. The writer decides to change from acting as a terrorist to acting as someone who's done business with John back to being a terrorist again. It's rambling without clear direction and purpose.

    The writer of the note is educated, polite, has a personal relationship with and affection for John Ramsey (not Patsy, just John). Add to that that the "intruder" was intimately familiar with the layout of the house and the rooms in it - then that dismisses any stranger intruder. If you don't believe it was the Ramseys, you HAVE to believe it was someone who was related or close friends with them:

    FBI Profile. Internet poster koldkase saw retired FBI agent Clint van Zandt answer questions on a book tour. In responding to questions, he asserted that he had been one of several FBI agents asked by LE to work up a profile of the RN writer. He claimed that within a couple of weeks after the murder, they had determined the RN writer was a well-educated female between the ages of 29 and 40 who knew the family and knew the home well; they further deduced that JonBenet was already dead when the RN was written. The caring and nurturing language in the note--"be well rested," etc. helped convince them the writer was female.

    Vidocq Society. The Vidocq Society apparently had a meeting to discuss the RN but it is not known what they concluded; any insights reportedly would have been communicated with BPD.

    Kimon Iannetta Analysis. Iannetta, founder of Trial Run, self reports having "served behind the scenes as a handwriting consultant for over two decades on numerous high profile court cases and is considered a trusted resource for major investigations." Ms. lannetta is a Life Fellow of the American College of Forensic Examiners (ACFE) and a member of the American Society of Industrial Security (ASIS), serving as handwriting consultant to corporate, legal, law enforcement, military and federal agencies. "Throughout the entire sample there are signs of a person with the ability to be compulsively controlled in behavioral patterns and attentive to his/her presentation despite the obvious extreme level of tension and stress." Readers are left to judge which individual matches the characteristics deduced from her analysis.

    Donald Pugh Analysis. Donald Pugh's analysis leads him to conclude that a middle-aged female individual in law enforcement wrote the RN.
    The writer of the ransom note uses the French word "attache" correctly, including the accent over the E. Patsy was a Francophile who invented the name JonBenet by smashing together "John Bennett" and making it sound French - she also used to write JonBenet with an accent over the first e.

    There's also the "and hence." The ransom note:

    "If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier delivery pickup of your daughter.
    That's a unique quirk, not only because "hence" is not a casual, conversational word used by most people, but because "and hence" is redundant. They're both transitional words so saying "and hence" is like saying "and and."

    In their 1997 Christmas message at their church, which was also posted on their website, Patsy wrote:

    Had there been no birth of Christ, there would be no hope of eternal life, and, hence, no hope of ever being with our loved ones again.
    This analysis someone already posted includes a quote from the Ramseys' book where Patsy takes a cavalier and defensive tone about her use of "and hence." She doesn't say why she used it, just that "maybe" she had read the ransom note so many times she subconsciously adopted it. She then dismissed it with, "Who knows?" What gets me is that she then writes, "Then again, maybe people everywhere use the phrase ‘and hence' everyday of the week, because it's a normal part of the English language." I would not even say "hence" is a normal part of English language you hear everyday, nevermind the incorrect use of "and hence." And why the hell is Patsy getting defensive about the grammar of the note's author? Patsy was proud, arrogant and obsessed with image. I think that even the minor criticism of incorrect grammar in the ransom note got to her because she wrote it.
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  12. #132
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post

    there. That's better. All the obsessions with the child murder threads here, posting "evidence" & trying to persuade others of ones point of view I find creepy, to the point of obsession.
    i find it really odd too but i guess it's like a hobby or something...
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  13. #133
    Gold Member BigBen's Avatar
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    I think the problem is that it seems really really obvious to people on both sides, so each side is screaming "HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THIS" and it just keeps going and going. And since we'll probably never know the real answer, it's going to keep going and going forever. It's not like people are going into creepy details about her dead body or anything.
    "Not only do we embrace it, we take it out for drinks, get it absolutely steaming drunk, leg hump it and then leave it covered in shaving foam and a stolen Chuck E Cheese outfit in its own bath with no recollection of how it got there." -Kittylady on the sad and pathetic and strange.

  14. #134
    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
    I think the problem is that it seems really really obvious to people on both sides, so each side is screaming "HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THIS" and it just keeps going and going. And since we'll probably never know the real answer, it's going to keep going and going forever. It's not like people are going into creepy details about her dead body or anything.
    Exactly. These cases can be addictive to follow as you want to find out the truth. For most people there is no pervy alterior motive to being interested in the case and it would be wrong to suggest there is..

  15. #135
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post
    ^^^Six experts testified that it was NOT Patsy.
    I thought the experts only said that it couldn't be determined whether Patsy did it or not, everyone else was cleared.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    I think a lot of it is just how impossible this crime seems like it would have been to pull off and get away with, no matter who did it. It's one of those things that I just want to KNOW what really happened. Personally, when I die I want everything I've ever wondered about to be revealed to me. Like what the hell happened to my great-aunt's diamond ring that I lost somewhere....and what happened to JonBenet and also whether the West Memphis 3 in Arkansas are really guilty or not. Fascinating mysteries, in my opinion (well, the lost ring not so much).
    I agree, I'm not obsessive about it or anything but I get why the entire thing is intriguing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
    I think the problem is that it seems really really obvious to people on both sides, so each side is screaming "HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THIS" and it just keeps going and going. And since we'll probably never know the real answer, it's going to keep going and going forever. It's not like people are going into creepy details about her dead body or anything.
    Yeesh I dunno about that, I read a thread on Burke Ramsey being contacted by police on another board and they posted an autopsy photograph of poor JonBenet and everyone else in the thread quite happily discussed the photo as if it wasn't horrifying. I wonder if they're desensitised or whatever but it was awful.
    I smile because I have no idea what's going on

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